I'm apparently the bad guy (child vent ahead)

[melanielll]

You can not know what happened in the lives of these people that brought them to this time and place.

By the same token - that mom doesn't know what is going on in the lives of any of the other passengers. One of them could be having the worst day of their life and the out of control kids could be what pushes them over the edge.

The social contract is a real thing. We all need to behave in ways that are considerate of others. Can you control a child's behavior 100% of the time? Absolutely not. Can you try 100% of the time? Absolutely. I am extremely sympathetic towards parents who are trying - even when their attempts are completely washing out. I generally use humor in those cases. Laugh or cry? I generally pick laugh.

So let your kids scream all they want on public transportation. Then more of the well-behaved people will stop using it. Then it will be nothing but the out of control people. Look at what Times Square was back in the 80s. This woman was doing her part to turn public transportation in her town into that.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Yes! As I mentioned previously, ds has ADHD. I had to address it with his teachers and have the testing done myself. His teacher was relieved I brought it up because they are no longer allowed to mention it UNLESS the parents bring it up first because some parents get offended. Seriously. You'd rather watch your child struggle than acknowledge and issue and get the appropriate help?!

I caution other parents not to wait on the school to address issues. Pay attention to your child and be proactive because the school is too afraid of those parents that can't handle finding out their special little snowflakes might have something that requires intervention so the truth is the school may never fully address it.

ALL. EXCELLENT. POINTS.

 

[momz]

If the mom has a disability that affects the care of her children, she should not have those children in her care.

LOL. That is such an incredible stretch!! One person was irritated by children on a train, so they said something to the mother about it. Other passengers came to the defense of the mother, with one specifically saying, "it's not her fault".

I suggested that there may be other things to consider, like maybe the mother has a disability (there are many possible scenarios).

And your conclusion is that the kids should not be in her care!!!

WOW! That is harsh. I don't think it was ever stated that the kids were in any danger whatsoever. Simply that they were annoying the OP.

 

[DLgal]

You've probably already done this - but what does his therapist or doctor tell him to do when he gets to the screaming point, or feel it coming on, etc? This is definitely a huge issue to work on - how can he work anywhere, or even go to college, if he might scream out in the middle of work, or in the middle of lecture?
.

Well right now, we're just trying to get through 7th grade...this is a relatively new "behavior." We have tried MANY things. It comes on so fast there is no warning. It may actually be Tourette's, as he has developed a facial tic as well. The fun part about that is they can't diagnose Tourettes until tics have been consistently present for a year. We are at about 4 months. It may actually be a side effect of other medications he is taking for anxiety and ADHD. It's really very frustrating because he has a hard time communicating what he is feeling due to autism. So we are left to be detectives as he doesn't work with a therapist right now (due to the communication deficits).

 

[wvjules]

I was definitely not the only one irritated by it. Several passengers were clearly irritated/annoyed. I was, however, the only one to say something. As I said before, I take the Metro all the time. I, sadly, do somewhat expect bad/rude behavior. This was just so out of control that it hit my breaking point so I said something. If you wouldn't have said something, fine. I didn't say anything for most of the ride but when it got to the point that it was obvious she wasn't going to do anything I said something. But do not excuse the behavior as something someone *should* expect when out in public or using public transportation. No one should have to put up with other people's bad behavior. Why can't people be respectful of others that they share space with?

 

[katie111]

I've sort of had the opposite scenario happen. One time when my kids were about 7, 6 and 3, we were in a dept store. They were all riled up and were acting like animals. We were on our way to a kid's birthday party & had to get the present so I couldn't just leave. They were climbing in & out of my cart, climbing under the racks etc. I was constantly telling the to stop & apparently my voice was escalating. A woman came up to me & told me I was a terrible parent & that I needed to get some "counseling" because I was being way too hard on my kids & she was afraid I was going to get abusive. What??? Here I am trying to parent my kids & I get told I am a bad mother. Sometimes you just can't win. I just walked away & got out of the store immediately & started crying. My kids didn't normally behave like that in public but they were so hyped up about the party that they were losing it. Needless to say, they didn't get to go.

I guess my point is just that if she was trying to discipline her kids someone would have probably jumped all over her for that as well.

 

[Tasha228]

I've sort of had the opposite scenario happen. One time when my kids were about 7, 6 and 3, we were in a dept store. They were all riled up and were acting like animals. We were on our way to a kid's birthday party & had to get the present so I couldn't just leave. They were climbing in & out of my cart, climbing under the racks etc. I was constantly telling the to stop & apparently my voice was escalating. A woman came up to me & told me I was a terrible parent & that I needed to get some "counseling" because I was being way too hard on my kids & she was afraid I was going to get abusive. What??? Here I am trying to parent my kids & I get told I am a bad mother. Sometimes you just can't win. I just walked away & got out of the store immediately & started crying. My kids didn't normally behave like that in public but they were so hyped up about the party that they were losing it. Needless to say, they didn't get to go.

I guess my point is just that if she was trying to discipline her kids someone would have probably jumped all over her for that as well.

Yeah, I get that too. One of ds's biggest issues is he doesn't pay attention to those around him and will walk in front of someone or bump into them and be completely oblivious. It's part of the adhd and he doesn't do it on purpose. But that doesn't mean I am going to excuse it and not make him become aware of it. I always apologize or make him apologize. People are always very kind about it. But sometimes when I tell him to apologize they say oh no, it's okay. He doesn't have to. They don't accuse me of bad parenting. They are just extremely nice. BUT, yes, he does have to apologize and I still make him. Why? Because I want him to start becoming aware of what he is doing and paying attention. And if he runs into someone I expect him to say he's sorry.

As for your example, well...people can be crazy. That woman is an extreme example. I'd still discipline my kids whether she found me to be wrong for it or not. I'm sorry she made you cry though. I would have commended you for taking control as a parent, personally.

 

[North of Mouse]

We all have different standards, values, and viewpoints and we should not force them on others, IMO.

True, but by the same token, neither should they let the behavior they accept/condone be foisted upon the general public!!

There was a time people would have nipped this behavior in the bud and quick, fast, and in a hurry. Now everyone is so afraid of offending someone or worried someone may have a disability that bad behavior is becoming a new norm. I've never personally been good at the whole PC thing so I'm afraid I'm not as quick to excuse it.

True words for sure!! Excuses, excuses, excuses, anything but accepting it just 'might' be your (general) problem and you should own up and deal with it! Instead of maybe 'others'
should change their values of what is acceptable in public.

When I read (just on this thread) the posters that think this is an excusable, acceptable behavior, then go out into the public and see this first hand, I'm not really surprised - but very saddened.

I have a cousin that has a genetic disorder (chromosome abnormality) that all her life has caused her to be 'very' different and noticeable to others, but from small she was taught how to behave in public. She has limited learning ability, (much older now) but knew limits. Her parents could have just let her be her 'natural' self, as it took lots of love, patience and training for her, but they had a sweet, lovable, well behaved child (forever a child) instead.

I have nothing but respect and kindness for parents when they 'do what they can'!! Not just make excuses because the effort is too hard. Raising any child is not easy, I know!

 

[Jennasis]

Never confuse an explanation and an excuse.

 

[wilkeliza]

Not all of us were saying an explanation is an excuse. Perhaps the mother was told by her child's therapists to just let them tantrum after she takes the phone away. Who knows. My line is danger. If a kid is hitting, spitting, kicking, throwing stuff at people etc then I say something. If they are just laying on the ground screaming and kicking their feet at nothing but the air then I just ignore and hope that maybe the parent is in control and was told to let the kid do that and ignore it so the child learns it doesn't work. Again dangerous is never acceptable to me and I have said something to parents when their kid kicked me or the time one took the plastic price holder off a shelf and whacked my fiance with it. Now the tantrums I have seen on NYC subway yeah I put my noise canceling headphones in and think at least I'm not that parent having to deal with it. Not excusing the behavior at all just saying what may look like not doing anything to a stranger is actually what a parent was told to try. You only see those brief moment of a strangers life who knows what they may or may not actually be doing.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Perhaps the mother was told by her child's therapists to just let them tantrum after she takes the phone away. Who knows.

Perhaps it's just me, but if I was given this advice for when my child throws a tantrum IN PUBLIC, I'd get another therapist.

I agree re MY line being dangerous behavior. But I DO understand some feeling moved to say something -- certainly don't think that's "wrong" in any objective sense.

 

[Liberty Belle]

True, but by the same token, neither should they let the behavior they accept/condone be foisted upon the general public!!



True words for sure!! Excuses, excuses, excuses, anything but accepting it just 'might' be your (general) problem and you should own up and deal with it! Instead of maybe 'others'
should change their values of what is acceptable in public.

When I read (just on this thread) the posters that think this is an excusable, acceptable behavior, then go out into the public and see this first hand, I'm not really surprised - but very saddened.

I have a cousin that has a genetic disorder (chromosome abnormality) that all her life has caused her to be 'very' different and noticeable to others, but from small she was taught how to behave in public. She has limited learning ability, (much older now) but knew limits. Her parents could have just let her be her 'natural' self, as it took lots of love, patience and training for her, but they had a sweet, lovable, well behaved child (forever a child) instead.

I have nothing but respect and kindness for parents when they 'do what they can'!! Not just make excuses because the effort is too hard. Raising any child is not easy, I know!

Here is an example I'm thinking of:

I was out with my son and he was getting anxious. When he gets anxious, he often gets irritable. I asked him something and he snapped at me. He didn't curse at me. He didn't raise his hand to me. He snapped something like "I already told you!" An older woman standing near by grabbed (lightly) his arm and told him he should be ashamed of himself for talking to me that way. I did NOT appreciate her trying to shame my child and certainly did not appreciate her touching him. Both things are "triggers" for him. I know that word gets thrown around a lot now with "snowflake" with disdain, but I certainly hope someone would not fault a child who is suffering from diagnosed anxiety and panic disorder with PTSD traits for having a legitimate trigger.

I don't like to hear people cursing in public. If I heard a young teen around me cursing, though, I'd just ignore it. It's not my place to tell them to stop as they and their parents might be perfectly fine with it.

 

[wilkeliza]

Perhaps it's just me, but if I was given this advice for when my child throws a tantrum IN PUBLIC, I'd get another therapist.

I agree re MY line being dangerous behavior. But I DO understand some feeling moved to say something -- certainly don't think that's "wrong" in any objective sense.

true. I didn't say it was the right advice but it is something that people are told to do yes even in public because you known that whole you have to be consistent thing. Imagine a kid doesn't want to go to the doctor and they realize if they just throw a tantrum every time they are suppose to go then mom will never take them because they have to go in public on the train to do so then yeah one time I image she would just say well you have to go so no amount of tantrum is going to stop this and just let it happen. Again probably not the OPs case and none of us but the OP were there but I could see why a kid may be allowed to just be a jerk in an attempt to correct a bad behavior. It sucks for all involved. Of course I would also expect the mom to say I'm so sorry we were told to ignore this behavior as we have tried everything else and it isn't working. An apology from a parent goes a long way in making it less annoying.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

true. I didn't say it was the right advice but it is something that people are told to do yes even in public that who you have to be consistent thing. Imagine a kid doesn't want to go to the doctor and they realize if they just throw a tantrum every time they are suppose to go then mom will never take them because they have to go in public on the train to do so then yeah one time I image she would just say well you have to go so no amount of tantrum is going to stop this and just let it happen. Again probably not the OPs case and none of us but the OP were there but I could see why a kid may be allowed to just be a jerk in an attempt to correct a bad behavior. It sucks for all involved. Of course I would also expect the mom to say I'm so sorry we were told to ignore this behavior as we have tried everything else and it isn't working. An apology from a parent goes a long way in making it less annoying.

I agree that an apology -- REALLY JUST ANY ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF THE INCONVENIENCE TO OTHERS AT ALL -- goes a very long way! It's really the sitting there, doing and saying nothing that gets to me.

(I'd still dump any therapist who told me to allow my child to tantrum in public -- without me even trying to get it under control!! Therapists aren't Gods -- parents should still question and engage common sense.)

 

[Hikergirl]

LOL. That is such an incredible stretch!! One person was irritated by children on a train, so they said something to the mother about it. Other passengers came to the defense of the mother, with one specifically saying, "it's not her fault".

I suggested that there may be other things to consider, like maybe the mother has a disability (there are many possible scenarios).

And your conclusion is that the kids should not be in her care!!!

WOW! That is harsh. I don't think it was ever stated that the kids were in any danger whatsoever. Simply that they were annoying the OP.

Actually the OP described their behavior as out of control. That goes beyond "annoying" behavior.

 

[Tasha228]

Here is an example I'm thinking of:

I was out with my son and he was getting anxious. When he gets anxious, he often gets irritable. I asked him something and he snapped at me. He didn't curse at me. He didn't raise his hand to me. He snapped something like "I already told you!" An older woman standing near by grabbed (lightly) his arm and told him he should be ashamed of himself for talking to me that way. I did NOT appreciate her trying to shame my child and certainly did not appreciate her touching him. Both things are "triggers" for him. I know that word gets thrown around a lot now with "snowflake" with disdain, but I certainly hope someone would not fault a child who is suffering from diagnosed anxiety and panic disorder with PTSD traits for having a legitimate trigger.

I don't like to hear people cursing in public. If I heard a young teen around me cursing, though, I'd just ignore it. It's not my place to tell them to stop as they and their parents might be perfectly fine with it.

I do not think OP asking the mother if she is going to do anything is even on the same level as a woman touching your son. Had OP come on here and said she grabbed the kids we'd be having a totally different conversation. I would not be okay with a stranger touching my child either. Totally different situation IMO. Ds gets anxious like that too so I get what you are saying. If he's reacting that way to me then it is up to me how I deal with it since it truly doesn't affect others if it is just betweeen him and me. And strangers better not touch him. However, if he is reacting that way and being disruptive to everyone and not just me then it is still up to me to deal with it and I should at least try to get a handle on things or apologize to those in the vicinity. Again, JMO.

 

[mousefanmichelle]

I don't understand the helplessness of people today. I don't have little kids - mine are older so we have bigger fish to fry so to speak but why is it that every excuse for bad behavior is that a kid has a disorder or anxiety or adhd or autism? Why can't a kid just be out of control and have bad behavior anymore? Why can't a parent just take control of the situation and deal with their child instead of letting them act like a brat? Sometimes kids are brats and need to be handled. I can't understand a parent who just stands by and lets their kid act out of control. I would have said something too - if it's getting on my nerves, it must be getting on other peoples nerves (I am very tolerant and patient but I have my limits).

 

[Pea-n-Me]

What did the mother say?

I was shopping in a Bed, Bath and Beyond recently and I could hear kids screaming, yelling. I turn the corner and there are 3 young kids jumping on a bed (a white mattress) with their wet boots on! I told them to get off the bed right in front of the two mothers. One kid says, "ok, sorry". Another one says "we don't have to". I just looked at their mothers and shook my head in disbelief. Neither said a word. Later in the store they were in another section smashing the appliances around. I kid you not. None of the store personnel would speak to them. I've never witnessed such a sense of entitlement in a public space before.

If people in general are acting up on the subway, I just move. It's not worth it.

I'm sorry if this has already been mentioned, but two grown men were recently arrested for having sex on a bed at Bed Bath and Beyond as well.

http://www.abc15.com/news/national/men-arrested-after-sex-act-on-display-bed-at-bed-bath-beyond

 

[FairestOfThemAll37]

I haven't read all the replies and I don't have children so my opinions may not be welcomed but...incoming

Having just gotten back from a Disney cruise (and I notice this every time), it seems like there are a lot of parenting no-wins. I watch a lot of parents with a glazed over look as kids run amok all over the place. I get the sense that there are some days and some battles that just can't be fought.

For every kid I saw running around with parents doing nothing I saw wild kids with parents dragging them and hitting or threatening to hit them. That's not a winning scenario as people have opinions on that too.

I saw parents counting and time putting with equal failures and success.

I think it's easier said than done sometimes when you're just trying to get through you life? I mean maybe that woman fights that battle everyday on the subway and you caught her on a morning when she was just defeated. She still has to get to work or get the kids to school so it's not like she can just pick them up and go home.

I don't know. I'm not a kid person and they annoy the heck out of me in general but it looks like a no win a lot of the time.

 

[mjkacmom]

I don't understand the helplessness of people today. I don't have little kids - mine are older so we have bigger fish to fry so to speak but why is it that every excuse for bad behavior is that a kid has a disorder or anxiety or adhd or autism? Why can't a kid just be out of control and have bad behavior anymore? Why can't a parent just take control of the situation and deal with their child instead of letting them act like a brat? Sometimes kids are brats and need to be handled. I can't understand a parent who just stands by and lets their kid act out of control. I would have said something too - if it's getting on my nerves, it must be getting on other peoples nerves (I am very tolerant and patient but I have my limits).

If a kid is behaving badly in public, it's most likely because he's being a brat. However, on the off chance there is some kind of disability causing the behavior, I like to give the parents and child the benefit of the doubt. I do this because I've seen really good parents get worn down by strangers giving them looks in public, or saying things to them. It's hard enough having a moderately to severe disabled child, they don't need constant judgement out in public. It's not my business. I was blessed with very well behaved children, thank goodness. I see some of these parents and wonder how they get through each day.