I'm apparently the bad guy (child vent ahead)

[mjkacmom]

I'm sorry if this has already been mentioned, but two grown men were recently arrested for having sex on a bed at Bed Bath and Beyond as well.

http://www.abc15.com/news/national/men-arrested-after-sex-act-on-display-bed-at-bed-bath-beyond

Lol this is my store, I pass it all of the time. After I read it in the news, I had a visual I couldn't unsee (so I sent DH to do my returns).

 

[Poohlove]

When has it become so commonplace that we should assume a child has a disability over top of assuming that they really are ill mannered brats? Doesn't sound to me like the mother in this particular scenario really cared what OP, or anyone else for that matter, thought. I guess more power to her in that regard.

 

[DaisyJ]

Never confuse an explanation and an excuse.

There are excuses being made on this thread.

 

[Poohlove]

There are excuses being made on this thread.

I agree 100%.

A close family member has 3 children - 2 boys and a girl, girl being the oldest. Boys will be boys, they rough house and run around and are generally full of energy. They are polite and well mannered but they are boys. There was a period of time where they had a lot going on a home and she wasn't parenting the way that she should have been, things would escalate and the boys would feed off of her negativity and a whole scene would ensue. (They were about 5 and 7 at the time) Rather than accept that she was the driving force behind their behavior she took them to doctor after doctor after doctor looking for a diagnosis of ADHD and/or Asperger's. She finally found a doctor that gave her what she wanted and then the medication started. The side effects weren't worth the benefits, I think because she also finally realized that they didn't really need anything other than a swift kick in the *** to get them straightened out. Their father/her husband is in the army and at the time was stationed overseas. Since he has returned home the boys are fine and when they would act up he would make them wear themselves out doing push ups. To this day she still tries to goad them into acting a certain way, I think so that she can show everyone that she was right and everyone else was wrong all this time. I tell her all of the time to leave them alone and she laughs it off. The daughter though can do no wrong.

My point to this is that she makes excuse after excuse, some of the things I have read here are things that I have heard her say. The explanation would be that she overreacts to many things, she always has since she was a child, and her kids feed off of that. For years our family has wished that she would just accept that she is a lazy parent and despite that her kids are pretty good thanks to many other influences (as much as I dislike the phrase, it is true in many cases - it takes a village) and stop trying to have them diagnosed and medicated.

 

[PollyannaMom]

I kind of agree with both sides here. Sure, there might have been a disability involved, or the mom might have just received devastating news, or whatever...but most likely, this was a case of normal kids misbehaving. Exceptions are only exceptions because they aren't usually the case.

And I definitely have more sympathy for someone trying to minimize the impact of their child's incident (whatever the cause) than for someone who seems not to be bothered by it at all (as the mother was described in the OP).

But then you also get into the whole "can't win" thing. People expect parents to be able to "control" their kids, but there are actually fewer resources available to them to do that than there used to be. (For instance, we no longer look kindly on parents who swat their kid on the bottom to get them to behave.)

I think it would have gone a long way if she'd been trying to engage the kids, though, or even simply apologized to the nearest passengers. There are certainly times when kids have just had enough, but if people see you've tried (talked to them, brought along snacks or appropriate things for them to do, etc.) I think they are more likely to want to help than complain.

(Of course, "helping" can be a whole "can't win" of it's own. I'm generally a person who would chat with kids on a train to help keep them from being bored, but some folks nowadays won't let their kids talk to anyone even if they're with them.)

 

[Liberty Belle]

I do not think OP asking the mother if she is going to do anything is even on the same level as a woman touching your son. Had OP come on here and said she grabbed the kids we'd be having a totally different conversation. I would not be okay with a stranger touching my child either. Totally different situation IMO. Ds gets anxious like that too so I get what you are saying. If he's reacting that way to me then it is up to me how I deal with it since it truly doesn't affect others if it is just betweeen him and me. And strangers better not touch him. However, if he is reacting that way and being disruptive to everyone and not just me then it is still up to me to deal with it and I should at least try to get a handle on things or apologize to those in the vicinity. Again, JMO.

I completely agree. I was just commenting on the "it takes a village" thing, not really anything to do with the original post. I agree they're very different.

 

[Liberty Belle]

I don't understand the helplessness of people today. I don't have little kids - mine are older so we have bigger fish to fry so to speak but why is it that every excuse for bad behavior is that a kid has a disorder or anxiety or adhd or autism? Why can't a kid just be out of control and have bad behavior anymore? Why can't a parent just take control of the situation and deal with their child instead of letting them act like a brat? Sometimes kids are brats and need to be handled. I can't understand a parent who just stands by and lets their kid act out of control. I would have said something too - if it's getting on my nerves, it must be getting on other peoples nerves (I am very tolerant and patient but I have my limits).

I don't think anyone is saying that. I know I'm certainly not. I'm just saying when you see behavior like that it could be due to a disability and undoubtedly sometimes is.

All children are still learning and do have moments of bad behavior and it has nothing to do with any disability (whether they have one or not). I just like to give people the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Liberty Belle]

Lol this is my store, I pass it all of the time. After I read it in the news, I had a visual I couldn't unsee (so I sent DH to do my returns).

*gag*

 

[Aliceacc]

You saw a tiny little snapshot of her family.

Perhaps you're right, and it was just lazy parenting. But perhaps there was something else at play-- illness, horrible news, something else that you're simply unaware of.

 

[North of Mouse]

You saw a tiny little snapshot of her family.

Perhaps you're right, and it was just lazy parenting. But perhaps there was something else at play-- illness, horrible news, something else that you're simply unaware of.

Sorry, all these are just excuses. I've had my share, but never neglected my children, or let that be an excuse to not parent. Hard, yes, but part of the territory of being a parent!
'And', say it were, a short explanation would go a long way!

 

[monsterkitty]

You saw a tiny little snapshot of her family.

Perhaps you're right, and it was just lazy parenting. But perhaps there was something else at play-- illness, horrible news, something else that you're simply unaware of.

So if it was a bad day for some reason, wouldn't you just say, "Hey guys, Mom isn't feeling well and the noise is giving me a headache. Can you cool it a bit?" In my classroom, if I'm not feeling great or if I've had a loss, I tell the kids. It makes me human to them and when you tell them how their actions make you feel or others feel, they understand and they cool it.

 

[ronandannette]

The OP mentioned the mother did not have "control" of her children.

The only thing you can "control" is your own reaction. You can influence others, which is what you tried to do by speaking to the mother, but you cannot "control" her. And likewise, the mother cannot "control" her child.

Also, a mother knows her child best, and often times, interacting during a tantrum will feed the behavior and make it take longer to resolve. Sometimes, it's best to ignore a tantrum. Let it run its course and then re-engage with the child when they are better.

It's unfortunate for all involved that this happened on the train. But, this family has just as much of a right to use this form of transportation as anybody else.

When you choose to go out in public, you risk having to witness bad behavior. It's not that big of a deal.

Pure poppycock! I'm sure you don't extend that line of though to whether or not she could/should keep them from running out into traffic, drinking poison or sticking their hand in a fire. Of course we can and must control our children, both literally and figuratively (in many ways).

It reminds me of a family we entertained for dinner once, years ago. The child began climbing my vertical blinds and the mom smiled at me and said (exact quote which I'll never forget) "I'm choosing to ignore that behaviour so it doesn't escalate." Sorry lady - not when my window coverings are at stake, you're not. I physically removed the boy and when he went ballistic, left mom to try and explain to him what just happened...

Very true. Or maybe she just had bratty kids. Or maybe she just didn't want to deal with disciplining them. The truth is NONE of us know. But, I'm sorry, just excusing bad behavior because *MAYBE* the kids (and now apparently the mom) have disabilities is why so many entitled out of control people exist nowadays. There was a time people would have nipped this behavior in the bud and quick, fast, and in a hurry. Now everyone is so afraid of offending someone or worried someone may have a disability that bad behavior is becoming a new norm. I've never personally been good at the whole PC thing so I'm afraid I'm not as quick to excuse it.

Yeah, and you had to see that coming, right?

By the same token - that mom doesn't know what is going on in the lives of any of the other passengers. One of them could be having the worst day of their life and the out of control kids could be what pushes them over the edge.

The social contract is a real thing. We all need to behave in ways that are considerate of others. Can you control a child's behavior 100% of the time? Absolutely not. Can you try 100% of the time? Absolutely. I am extremely sympathetic towards parents who are trying - even when their attempts are completely washing out. I generally use humor in those cases. Laugh or cry? I generally pick laugh.

So let your kids scream all they want on public transportation. Then more of the well-behaved people will stop using it. Then it will be nothing but the out of control people. Look at what Times Square was back in the 80s. This woman was doing her part to turn public transportation in her town into that.

I'd "like" this post more than once if I could.

 

[mummabear]

I just want to throw this out there...

A child doesn't have to have a disability to have a tantrum or bad day and ut doesn't mean their parents don't parent them. They're KIDS...Their parents are HUMAN... People have bad days.

Sure no one is perfect but you don't get to go "I'm having a bad day so I am just going to ignore them" in a public space. Sure at home, we've all been there but as a parent you need to suck it up and be a parent sometimes when you really don't feel like it. That is the responsibility you chose when you had kids.

 

[CarolAnn856]

Sure no one is perfect but you don't get to go "I'm having a bad day so I am just going to ignore them" in a public space. Sure at home, we've all been there but as a parent you need to suck it up and be a parent sometimes when you really don't feel like it. That is the responsibility you chose when you had kids.

Amen! We've all had miserable days, awful news handed to us, or felt like death warmed over. That is never a reason to allow kids to get away with being disturbances to others around them, especially strangers in a public space.

As for kids with disabilities, the reality is that no, you can't always control their behavior. But as a parent, you (general you) can control your own behavior, and making an effort to stop the unruly actions or at the very least apologizing to others around is what makes all the difference.

 

[gemini2727]

We're expected to be compassionate to the mom in the scenario, when she has zero compassion for her fellow travelers. Disabilities or not, (and I think it's a lot to assume that both of the kids' behaviors could not be helped,) an attempt should have been made to discipline them. Like others have said, you'll get my sympathy if you're even trying to parent them. Maybe it won't work, but at least try!

 

[Aliceacc]

I have a confession to make: There have been times when I've been a bad parent. Way too many for my comfort level.

Hopefully not to the extent that someone has shared my bad moments with the world, but perhaps.

When my dad died, I dropped off a child with a stomach bug at my friend's house. A good mom would have been with her sick son. But my dad had died, I was 9 months pregnant, and I knew he would be OK. And I needed to cry with my mom and my siblings. So I dropped him off, crying and ill, at my friend's house.

On a less dramatic note, today my daughter desperately wanted to do something-- anything. But I've been really sick for over a week, and just didn't want to do anything. And, worse, when she complained, I allowed it to blow up into an argument.


There have been times when I've thought my kids weren't sick enough for the doctor, and I was wrong.

And if you want to share in some of my stellar parenting moments at Disney, here are a few.
https://www.disboards.com/threads/we-were-that-family.1938422/
I'm sure that each episode had a huge audience of people waiting to share my lapses with the world.

I've also displayed poor judgement at other times. My minivan has 2 big dents, both from hitting fixed objects. One was shortly after the doctor said "Mastectomy"-- I hit a concrete post in the parking garage. Then, a few months later, when the term "radiation" came up, I backed into a car. Driving while upset is no less dangerous than driving while impaired, and I have no excuse. I know with absolute certainty that I should not have been behind the wheel either time.

There have been far too many times when my kids deserved a far better mom than they got at a particular moment in time.

I don't know about the woman in the OP. Maybe she was lazy, maybe she was drunk, maybe she's just a bad parent. I don't know. But since I'm living in a lovely little glass house of my own, I'll refrain on throwing stones.

 

[momz]

I have a confession to make: There have been times when I've been a bad parent. Way too many for my comfort level.

Hopefully not to the extent that someone has shared my bad moments with the world, but perhaps.

When my dad died, I dropped off a child with a stomach bug at my friend's house. A good mom would have been with her sick son. But my dad had died, I was 9 months pregnant, and I knew he would be OK. And I needed to cry with my mom and my siblings. So I dropped him off, crying and ill, at my friend's house.

On a less dramatic note, today my daughter desperately wanted to do something-- anything. But I've been really sick for over a week, and just didn't want to do anything. And, worse, when she complained, I allowed it to blow up into an argument.


There have been times when I've thought my kids weren't sick enough for the doctor, and I was wrong.

And if you want to share in some of my stellar parenting moments at Disney, here are a few.
https://www.disboards.com/threads/we-were-that-family.1938422/
I'm sure that each episode had a huge audience of people waiting to share my lapses with the world.

I've also displayed poor judgement at other times. My minivan has 2 big dents, both from hitting fixed objects. One was shortly after the doctor said "Mastectomy"-- I hit a concrete post in the parking garage. Then, a few months later, when the term "radiation" came up, I backed into a car. Driving while upset is no less dangerous than driving while impaired, and I have no excuse. I know with absolute certainty that I should not have been behind the wheel either time.

There have been far too many times when my kids deserved a far better mom than they got at a particular moment in time.

I don't know about the woman in the OP. Maybe she was lazy, maybe she was drunk, maybe she's just a bad parent. I don't know. But since I'm living in a lovely little glass house of my own, I'll refrain on throwing stones.

Thank you for sharing your experiences. You made the point that is was having trouble getting across. Who knows what brought this family to this place and time? Who knows what led to the mother letting her kids behave in that manner?

There are some people on this thread that believe any child that is aloud to misbehave should be removed from their mother due to "neglect". I say, your kids will be strong, independent, compassionate adults because of the circumstances in which they were raised. Bravo for being a brave mom and pointing out that this mom may have very well been doing the best parenting she possibly could.

Peace to you and your kids!

 

[Pixiedustaway]

Bad day or bad mom? In those few minutes your on the train does it really matter?? Did you have to get involved? (General you not anyone specifically). I am not a fan of anyone telling me how to parent my children.

 

[ronandannette]

Thank you for sharing your experiences. You made the point that is was having trouble getting across. Who knows what brought this family to this place and time? Who knows what led to the mother letting her kids behave in that manner?

There are some people on this thread that believe any child that is aloud to misbehave should be removed from their mother due to "neglect". I say, your kids will be strong, independent, compassionate adults because of the circumstances in which they were raised. Bravo for being a brave mom and pointing out that this mom may have very well been doing the best parenting she possibly could.

Peace to you and your kids!

Really? Who? Such extreme rhetoric is ridiculous.

 

[momz]

If the mom has a disability that affects the care of her children, she should not have those children in her care.

Really? Who? Such extreme rhetoric is ridiculous.

There you go. This quote is from a person that feels that the children should be removed from this mother's care if the reason for their misbehavior is at all related to a disability.

I'm not the one that said they should be removed for misbehaving. And I agree that the extreme rhetoric is ridiculous.

I happen to think there could any number of factors that led to the misbehavior. I think it is wrong to call out others parenting skills based on one episode of bad behavior.