I'm apparently the bad guy (child vent ahead)

[Uncranky Donald]

I treat children like I treat adults most times. I have no problem talking directly to the child if he/she is being disruptive to me and the parent is doing nothing. I work with children who's parents do nothing all the time so I firmly believe the concept "It takes a village"...I often have to be that village and I do not care what the parent thinks. I have saved children from getting hit by cars outside my business by being "the village", I have stopped children from writing all over my walls with sharpie markers by being "the village" etc, etc. And when it comes to special needs, special needs require special attention. I worked as a Special Needs Therapist and am very aware of what it means to take care of people all across the spectrum. When I was out with my clients I NEVER let them hit, spit, bolt, bite, rip, break, etc. around, near, at people who were unaware of their very specific special needs...not their circus, not their monkey. If a parent is not doing their job whether for a spoiled brat or for their special needs child and it is clearly causing discourse in others' lives do to their negligence I will always be "The Village", think about all the things you learned in your life NOT from your parents.

 

[Hikergirl]

It's unfortunate for all involved that this happened on the train. But, this family has just as much of a right to use this form of transportation as anybody else.

When you choose to go out in public, you risk having to witness bad behavior. It's not that big of a deal.

Nobody here has said this family doesn't have a right to use this form of transportation.

LOL to the bolded. Who are you to say that as someone who wasn't on that train? The problem with the attitude that this is a risk of what you get when you go out in public is that you make this behavior acceptable (general you). As another poster pointed out, we live in a society with social norms and rules, that the majority of us manage to follow. God help us if screaming kids and complacent parents are what will be the new norm for the majority because its just become acceptable.

Oh, and clearly you didn't have a parent that mastered the look. If you did then you would know that a child can most definitely be controlled

 

[mjkacmom]

I love threads like these because they are so predictable on the direction they will go.

It's so easy to want to be PC and say, "Well, maybe the children had disabilities." But let us be real. There are a TON of kids that just behave badly and a ton of parents that just allow it.

My ds has ADHD. We don't allow that to be an excuse or a crutch for bad behavior. We took action and got him the help he needed to focus in school. In public, he knows acting up WILL mean consequences. He is generally well behaved but he's a kid and there are moments. And he is disciplined accordingly. He has never jumped on mattresses in a store because I would nip that in the bud pronto. Is his ADHD the same thing as having autistic children, etc? No, of course not. But parents still have a responsibility to know what their child can and can not deal with and to try to handle things accordingly. There are bad days, sure. BUT I'm personally not okay with raising my child to be able to get away with behaving like a little heathen because he has a disability. I am trying to raise him to be a wonderful and functioning adult with manners and morals, DESPITE any disabilities. JMO.

But there are kids with disabilities who won't be independently functioning adults because of their disabilities. Not everyone will have that future.

 

[North of Mouse]

The excuses people will make for not even 'trying' to control their children!!!

 

[Mizzoufan]

I'd probably would have offered her my help not my criticism.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I'd probably would have offered her my help not my criticism.

I wonder if she would have thought that she needed help. She didn't appear bothered by the behavior, per OP.

 

[North of Mouse]

The OP mentioned the mother did not have "control" of her children.

The only thing you can "control" is your own reaction. You can influence others, which is what you tried to do by speaking to the mother, but you cannot "control" her. And likewise, the mother cannot "control" her child.

I disagree 100%! We raised three children with very different personalities, and we definitely controlled their behaviors, also teaching them to control their own behaviors.
That's called parenting!

No way would we have let them run amok in public or even at home. That was our responsibility as parents.

This mother never even tried, according to OP. A pp used the excuse that maybe she was having a bad day, bad news, sick, etc. Sorry, I've been through several of those type days over the years, but I still had my responsibilities for/to my children.

 

[here757]

Without knowing all the details.
Really! I don't blame u at all.
The likelihood both disabled?
Bet mom was on the phone!

 

[Wendy31]

Yesterday afternoon I was at a local Hallmark store buying Valentine cards. I was looking for a card for DH, and a young mother w/ an older baby in a stroller and little girl holding onto the stroller joined me in the aisle. She was also looking for a card for her DH.

Well, we've all been there. The baby was fussing & reaching for the cards, & the little girl wasn't staying w/ the stroller & was trying to roam all over the aisle. The mother was, at the same time, trying to find a card & control her 2 children... And she was having a difficult time. But she was trying. And I giggled to myself when I heard her say, "Here's one about football. Daddy likes football. This'll work."

So she grabbed the card, gathered up her 2 children, &, as they walked past me, the little girl kind of dodged in front of me.

And then the mother apologized to me.

And I replied w/ "Oh, she's fine! I've been there!"

Later, I was laughing & telling my DH the story. And he laughed & asked me, "Did you tell her that it gets better?" No, but I wish I had, &, had I been finished finding my own cards, I would have offered to watch her 2 kids for a minute so that she could have looked for a card herself. And, even though I wasn't finished, I still wish I had offered.

We all know kids are not going to be perfect in public. But there's a difference when the parent is trying & when the parent is completely ignoring the child.

 

[GrnMtnMan]

I think this is a case of you had to be there. I'm sure most wouldn't have said anything, but I did say something. I don't regret it. I'd do it again. lol

What do you think you accomplished by 'saying something'?
Do you think the ignoramus mom will suddenly realize she has to change her ways? Do you think someone confrontational-ly making a comment to her will stimulate her desire to be more considerate?

I kinda think you yelled at the shoreline at low tide, telling the water to come no further. There's nothing you can say or do to make such a person change their behavior.

 

[Tasha228]

But there are kids with disabilities who won't be independently functioning adults because of their disabilities. Not everyone will have that future.

This is true. That does not excuse a parent letting not one but 2 children behave badly in public. I don't buy that they both had disabilities. Of course that is my assuming they don't just as others are assuming maybe they did. I am more inclined to believe the kids were behaving badly and mom did nothing to try to change it.

Most of the time I can get control of the situation when my kids have acted up but there are times when kids are tired, overstimulated, and just bratty. Those few times when my kids did get kinda bratty in public I always apologized to those around me. They at least knew I was trying. KWIM? If what OP is saying is true this mom didn't say or do anything. If these kids had disabilities that made it hard for her to do anything I'm inclined to think she'd be like, "Oh, I'm so sorry. He/she has autism (insert whatever disability here) and gets like this sometimes." She said nothing and had 2 kids acting up which leads me to believe a disability isn't the case here. Of course none of us were there so I'm just speculating like everyone else.

 

[Nayan]

We all know kids are not going to be perfect in public. But there's a difference when the parent is trying & when the parent is completely ignoring the child.

Exactly. If the mom (or dad) is busy browsing on the phone or not paying attention to the kids when they are being unruly then that's a case of bad parenting. If she (or he) is at least trying to control the situation then that's different.

 

[momz]

I hear you, and I agree. But in this case that the OP described, the mother had other options - like any other mode of transportation that wouldn't have put (potentially) disabled kids in a crowded subway car, which no one likes. Like you said - even if the kids did fine on the subway on Monday, it doesn't mean they will on Tuesday. Only speaking in terms of this scenario, with a crowded subway car.

I completely disagree with saying the mom had other options. I think that if the OP cannot handle being in a confined space with the general public (which includes tantrum throwing children), then it is the OP's problem to find a different mode of transportation.

I'm sure the OP will claim that wherever they were going was more important,,or a more worthy trip than wherever the family was going, but that is just self focused thinking.

This family has every right to travel on public transportation as does anybody else. There were no laws being broken. If the OP cannot handle it, then they don't have to ride.

 

[momz]

This is true. That does not excuse a parent letting not one but 2 children behave badly in public. I don't buy that they both had disabilities. Of course that is my assuming they don't just as others are assuming maybe they did. I am more inclined to believe the kids were behaving badly and mom did nothing to try to change it.

Most of the time I can get control of the situation when my kids have acted up but there are times when kids are tired, overstimulated, and just bratty. Those few times when my kids did get kinda bratty in public I always apologized to those around me. They at least knew I was trying. KWIM? If what OP is saying is true this mom didn't say or do anything. If these kids had disabilities that made it hard for her to do anything I'm inclined to think she'd be like, "Oh, I'm so sorry. He/she has autism (insert whatever disability here) and gets like this sometimes." She said nothing and had 2 kids acting up which leads me to believe a disability isn't the case here. Of course none of us were there so I'm just speculating like everyone else.

Maybe the mom has a disability. Or maybe the mom just experienced a life event...there are too many scenarios to speculate. But, maybe she was too stressed by other events to address the behavior.

Or maybe, it wasn't the mother, maybe it was another relative stepping in to help with these kids...perhaps....

You can not know what happened in the lives of these people that brought them to this time and place. Whatever it was, it may have been playing out in the form of bad behavior. The OP doesn't have any way of knowing.

 

[jevs]

Not a great start to your day I'm sure OP.

When witnessing events like this I tell myself that I don't know what happened 10, 20, 30 minutes prior. Sometimes it is very hard to get into that mindset and I do berate the parent/child/adult in my head beforehand, then feel bad about it.

For the record, I don't think you're a bad person for saying something. Or for venting.

 

[BigAlsGal]

I'm on the Metro this morning. It is standing room only because DC's metro service sucks these days. Anyway, there is this woman and 2 kids. The kids are insanely out of control. The one is ripping apart the newspaper and yelling. The other one is screaming and hollering and thrashing herself around in the seat where she was sitting (I felt bad for the guy in the same seat) and on the floor. It was a nightmare. So after the kid is yelling nonstop for 5 minutes, I asked the mom if she was going to do anything about it. (She has done NOTHING to gain control of the kids this entire time.) Someone actually piped up and said "It's not her fault." I was flabbergasted. Her kids were out of control and she did NOTHING. How is it not her fault? And someone else said they felt bad for her. If she were trying to get control and was unsuccessful then yes, I'd feel bad for her. But she did absolutely nothing about either of her out of control kids. It was a very long 25 minute ride!

I'm sure someone here is going to say that maybe there were invisible disabilities, but I honestly don't care. There is no excuse for their behavior and no excuse for the mother not doing anything.

Thanks. I feel better.

Get a car or learn to handle yourself in public. Problem solved.

 

[Jennasis]

There are lousy parents out there. There are great parents out there. There are parents who are exhausted but trying. there are parents who are just beat down. There isn't much one can do about other people's children. I learned not to get involved after the one time I asked a kid to stop doing something dangerous and disruptive and had his dad in my face threatening me. So if I were in your shoes, I'd just do my best to ignore them and then have a good head-shaking session over it with DH that night at home.

 

[wvjules]

I do know how to handle myself in public (and I have a car) but thanks for the advice. It's others that don't know how to behave in public. And trust me, I question taking the metro all the time for many reasons.

I don't get why it's ok for her to ignore her awful children but not ok for me to say something about it. It's not like I yelled at her or called her a terrible mother. I asked if she was going to do anything about it.

Anyway on my way home I got a couple of street performers. The were break dancing. Lol

 

[SMD]

Also, a mother knows her child best, and often times, interacting during a tantrum will feed the behavior and make it take longer to resolve. Sometimes, it's best to ignore a tantrum. Let it run its course and then re-engage with the child when they are better.

Not always in a public place. Sometimes you have to remove the child from the situation and find a place that is appropriate or safe to ignore their tantrum. Public transportation is a sticky situation because people use it to take kids to school, daycare, doctors appointments and what not during typically commuting hours. But there are also adult areas and adult situations where it's ok to expect a parent to remove their child if they won't or can't behave appropriately. What if the child had a tantrum just inside the turnstile or on the stairs to the platform? On a commuter train or bus, why not do the equivalent of "I'll pull this car over," disembark and continue once the the behavior is under more control. Sometimes your kids throws a tantrum and you have to be late or miss plans to deal with it, too.

 

[Hikergirl]

I completely disagree with saying the mom had other options. I think that if the OP cannot handle being in a confined space with the general public (which includes tantrum throwing children), then it is the OP's problem to find a different mode of transportation.

I'm sure the OP will claim that wherever they were going was more important,,or a more worthy trip than wherever the family was going, but that is just self focused thinking.

This family has every right to travel on public transportation as does anybody else. There were no laws being broken. If the OP cannot handle it, then they don't have to ride.

Oh please, this was bad behavior period. Disability, bad day, whatever. This was an example of a parent not doing their job, and that should be unacceptable to everyone. Clearly there are people like you that will find some justification for it though. Or, turn it around on the OP saying she should find another option.
Hmm, were you the one on the train yelling it isn't her fault?