Here now, and here is the problem

[Colleen27]

They may make this assumption at their own peril. I sense some reaching their breaking points.

But how much peril is that, really, to Disney?

A weeklong guest pays about $60 per ticket-day. I'm an AP holder living over 1000 miles from WDW and I'm paying less than $40 per ticket-day. A local with an AP pays even less.

A once-in-a-lifetime (or once-in-many-years) spends on souvenirs from their magical vacation. I didn't buy a single piece of merchandise on my last trip and only a pin on the one before. My friend who lives in Orlando might buy a couple things each year, though she likes to shop Character Outlet rather than paying retail in the parks.

A vacationer eats every meal on property (assuming an on-site stay) because it is convenient. I venture off property only very occasionally so I'm more "tourist" in that respect, but I have a TiW so Disney's still getting less for the table I'm taking up than for the table taken up by that first-timer. And locals and DVC owners are even less profitable - they go off-site for cheaper/better food, eat at home, or cook in their villas.

And finally, that once-in-a-lifetime traveler might pay rack rate, or might take advantage of whatever discount Disney is promoting for their stay. I get an AP rate that is usually cheaper than anything offered to the general public, the DVC owner pre-paid for accommodations at a greatly discounted rate, and the local goes home to sleep.

Meanwhile, those less-profitable groups - annual passholders, DVC members, and locals - know the classic FP system inside and out and know which rides are must-dos (and repeaters) and which can be skipped. That's allowed us to have the best possible park experience, often at the expense of less prepared visitors from that lucrative once-in-a-lifetime group who get stuck in the standby lines.

I would argue that from a business standpoint it makes a great deal of sense to alienate some of us loyal, frequent guests in order to fill a bigger percentage of their rooms and park capacity with more profitable, more free-spending once-in-a-lifetime types.

 

[LuvFFPlus]

I beg to differ.

Or... they may come back but not nearly as often. Those who go every 6-12 months may start going every 2 years. Those who go 3-4 times a year may go to once a year. I think that is the most likely.

For me, I just went in August. I would have gone in April but am now likely holding off until the following April (2015). We'll see how it all plays out. I think attrition is going to end up being much higher than new business.

Then the purpose of FP+ has been fulfilled. Those who visit often has been taking more fp- than average visitors.

Now everyone will have 3 to start and opens up ride capacity. It is these forums that taught people to grab as many fp- as possible that caused a need for fp+ to be invented.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Then the purpose of FP+ has been fulfilled. Those who visit often has been taking more fp- than average visitors.

Now everyone will have 3 to start and opens up ride capacity. It is these forums that taught people to grab as many fp- as possible that caused a need for fp+ to be invented.

There's been no evidence that Disney developed this program because of any need, other than their need to make more money.

As for these boards teaching people to grab as many fp- as possible, I think that's a very small portion of the population. Did I grab 6-8 Fps/day? Yes. But I did so under Disney's own rules. It's quite easy to get 6-8 FPs in a day when you're in the park from 9am-midnight doing nothing but grabbing 1 FP every 2 hrs. That's hardly "abuse."

 

[LuvFFPlus]

But how much peril is that, really, to Disney?

...
I would argue that from a business standpoint it makes a great deal of sense to alienate some of us loyal, frequent guests in order to fill a bigger percentage of their rooms and park capacity with more profitable, more free-spending once-in-a-lifetime types.

I totally agree! Now Disney is on to these less than profitable groups and they all cry foul.

 

[Sammie]

Ride capacity does not change. The average number of rides/attractions per guest (assuming attendance is flat) will not change and may actually will go up as empty seats in less popular attractions fill up.

What FP+ does is level the playing field. It is distribution of wealth on an amusement park level. For everyone who was riding 20 attractions per day through careful management of FP and planning there were people who only got a handful in. The 20's will go down, and the handfuls will go up. From a statistical stand point you can think of it as the standard (or more accurately the mean) remains the same but the standard deviation goes down.

Most people on DIS are probably on the high end of the curve. Their experience will become "less". But it is all for the greater good. At least in Disneys eyes.

In my eyes too. I don't need 20 Fastpasses to have a great day in the park, I am happy with the 3, that I get to pick instead of being stuck with what is left.

I like the change especially if it allows more to experience a good time instead of a few.

As to selling your DVC over this, DVC does not lose on that, they have your money from the sale.

 

[TDC Nala]

Well there was something out about WDW trying to address the frequent complaints of guests.

One was "standing in line is boring" so now you have interactive queues to pass the time. (Do they work? Jury might still be out on that. there's a reason why the standby line on Haunted Mansion now always goes right through the interactive graveyard and FP+ skips it entirely.)

Another may be "couldn't get fastpasses for anything good." Maybe the way it was set up, where it gave some guests the option of getting 8 fastpasses a day, wasn't abuse, but it apparently isn't what Disney wants to continue.

I think 3 is OK, 3 could even be cool. But I don't want Disney to pick them for me based on what it thinks I might like. This is like when Netflix recommends that I watch one of those stupid talking dog movies Disney put out straight to video, just because I watched The Emperor's New Groove.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

In my eyes too. I don't need 20 Fastpasses to have a great day in the park, I am happy with the 3, that I get to pick instead of being stuck with what is left.

I like the change.

Me too. And honestly, the people who don't like it, who are opting out and selling their DVC contracts, will be replaced with new families who don't know any different and who will love coming to the parks under the new system.

 

[LuvFFPlus]

Did I grab 6-8 Fps/day? Yes. But I did so under Disney's own rules. It's quite easy to get 6-8 FPs in a day when you're in the park from 9am-midnight doing nothing but grabbing 1 FP every 2 hrs. That's hardly "abuse."

So when Disney's own rules changed to 3 tiered fp+ in advance, all of you rule followers have a need to be angry? Just keep follow the rule and get the 3 in advance maybe you will be happier instead of be angry at us who is happy with the the new system?

 

[clsteve]

I know this makes sense to people, but Disney doesn't even pretend to use this a reason for fastpass+. Ride equity is never discussed.

Here is an interesting article that explains how Disney is heading towards an all-inclusive model.

And this is a quote from CFO Rasulo in yahoo finance article:

Exactly.

Every thing the C-levels say is about extending the stay and/or minimizing the bleed-over to other Orlando options. No need to "sell" any FP+'s if they get more or longer on-site stays, or more days or longer days from off-site.

 

[Robbi]

Well there was something out about WDW trying to address the frequent complaints of guests.

One was "standing in line is boring" so now you have interactive queues to pass the time. (Do they work? Jury might still be out on that. there's a reason why the standby line on Haunted Mansion now always goes right through the interactive graveyard and FP+ skips it entirely.)

Another may be "couldn't get fastpasses for anything good." Maybe the way it was set up, where it gave some guests the option of getting 8 fastpasses a day, wasn't abuse, but it apparently isn't what Disney wants to continue.

IMO, what Disney is trying to address is how to ease in to pay to play, e.g., you want more FPs?, it will cost x amt of dollars or the tiered system will apply to resort stays. Stay deluxe, get more FPs and so on. Looks like Disney maybe headed into territory people said would never happen.

 

[LuvFFPlus]

Another may be "couldn't get fastpasses for anything good." Maybe the way it was set up, where it gave some guests the option of getting 8 fastpasses a day, wasn't abuse, but it apparently isn't what Disney wants to continue.

I think 3 is OK, 3 could even be cool. But I don't want Disney to pick them for me based on what it thinks I might like. This is like when Netflix recommends that I watch one of those stupid talking dog movies Disney put out straight to video, just because I watched The Emperor's New Groove.

I agree with you on the Disney picks for you but 8 fp- a day is definitely got to go. The extra 5 can go to the next family.

 

[LuvFFPlus]

Me too. And honestly, the people who don't like it, who are opting out and selling their DVC contracts, will be replaced with new families who don't know any different and who will love coming to the parks under the new system.

What you said is so true!

 

[Sammie]

I totally agree! Now Disney is on to these less than profitable groups and they all cry foul.

You know that quote, "we have seen the enemy and it was us" applies to this situation."

 

[surferdave]

I would argue that from a business standpoint it makes a great deal of sense to alienate some of us loyal, frequent guests in order to fill a bigger percentage of their rooms and park capacity with more profitable, more free-spending once-in-a-lifetime types.

I admit it is tempting to believe that this ill-conceived system was put in place to discourage repeat customers (I'll bet some of the designers and managers who thought they were somehow enhancing guest experience would love reading that). But right behind NextGen components on the list things WDW has been spending money on instead of new attractions is DVC properties.

Without as many repeat customers, why would they do this? Are they counting on selling to that many investors who hope to push timeshare rentals on the hoards of one time WDW visitors that they covet?

 

[LuvFFPlus]

Without as many repeat customers, why would they do this? Are they counting on selling to that many investors who hope to push timeshare rentals on the hoards of one time WDW visitors that they covet?

Posters before you already said that the dvc people doesn't need to visit the parks, eat at the parks, buy as many merchandises as regular guests. So guess what? Disney sold timeshare, nothing more nothing less.

 

[Angel Ariel]

So when Disney's own rules changed to 3 tiered fp+ in advance, all of you rule followers have a need to be angry? Just keep follow the rule and get the 3 in advance maybe you will be happier instead of be angry at us who is happy with the the new system?

Who said anything about being angry? I know i haven't.

I'm not a fan of it, because it will cause me to spend more time apart from my family if my husband and I both want to ride more than one headliner in a park (since we have a DD who is too short to enter the line with us). In the past we'd get 1 FP for each headliner, then use RS. That's no longer an option for TT/Soarin', and TSMM/RnRC...so for us both to get one ride on each will require spending the SB length (which on our spring break trip went upwards of 120mins) completely apart from the rest of the family. WDW is one place we've been able to go where we could enjoy adult AND kid attractions and not spend a lot of time apart. FP+ is changing that, and it does negatively affect the experience.

But anger is nowhere near the word I'd use to describe it.

Nor am I angry at anyone who is a fan of the system. If it works for you, that's great! (In all sincerity, truly). The flip side is true as well, though. The other side needs to not be "angry" that some don't believe the system will work as well for them either. Respecting both POVs really is possible, I promise.

 

[Rosanne]

Then the purpose of FP+ has been fulfilled. Those who visit often has been taking more fp- than average visitors.

Now everyone will have 3 to start and opens up ride capacity. It is these forums that taught people to grab as many fp- as possible that caused a need for fp+ to be invented.

Your writing style is so familiar. I feel like we've had this discussion before.

I'm pretty sure Disney isn't intentionally getting rid of me and my two girls. There was always plenty of room for us on SE, CofP, IASW, Living with the Land, and the little boat ride in Mexico. I don't think our not coming as often is a big win for Disney.

 

[LuvFFPlus]

You know that quote, "we have seen the enemy and it was us" applies to this situation."

It would probably help to take a bit less fp- per day and spent a little cash so that your opinion counts more in the eyes of a business.

 

[TDC Nala]

I'm hearing a lot of current DVC members (I am not planning on it myself) stating already that they intend to buy at the Polynesian DVC, because it's the Polynesian.

I'll keep an ear out and see if any of them plan on changing their minds because of FP+, or plan on selling their contracts because of FP+. I didn't consider buying at the Polynesian, but I"m not selling my contracts either. I do know quite a few who have declined annual pass renewals for the next year.

 

[LuvFFPlus]

Who said anything about being angry? I know i haven't.

I'm not a fan of it, because it will cause me to spend more time apart from my family if my husband and I both want to ride more than one headliner in a park (since we have a DD who is too short to enter the line with us). In the past we'd get 1 FP for each headliner, then use RS. That's no longer an option for TT/Soarin', and TSMM/RnRC...so for us both to get one ride on each will require spending the SB length (which on our spring break trip went upwards of 120mins) completely apart from the rest of the family. WDW is one place we've been able to go where we could enjoy adult AND kid attractions and not spend a lot of time apart. FP+ is changing that, and it does negatively affect the experience.

But anger is nowhere near the word I'd use to describe it.

Nor am I angry at anyone who is a fan of the system. If it works for you, that's great! (In all sincerity, truly). The flip side is true as well, though. The other side needs to not be "angry" that some don't believe the system will work as well for them either. Respecting both POVs really is possible, I promise.

But the problem you described is nothing new. Assuming that your family rides once on each ride only due to your DD situation then split up the fp+ time and then take turns. I did that in the past even with fp- w/o RS.
I respect the POV on the other side but it was your side to start slamming me after I posted that I love the new system.