Here now, and here is the problem

[ArwenMarie]

I would argue that from a business standpoint it makes a great deal of sense to alienate some of us loyal, frequent guests in order to fill a bigger percentage of their rooms and park capacity with more profitable, more free-spending once-in-a-lifetime types.

Exactly. WDW has a massive image problem regarding long lines. Once they really start really marketing FP+, they are going use this to go after those lucrative first-time customers. The ones who stay on property, eat on property, bringing their little princesses, buying merchandise, the whole shebang.

If they lose some frequent customers who perhaps live locally, stay offsite, don't buy as much, that's probably ok with them...But they can't lose them all though, and that will be the balancing act for them.

 

[wisblue]

nm

 

[LuvFFPlus]

Your writing style is so familiar. I feel like we've had this discussion before.

I'm pretty sure Disney isn't intentionally getting rid of me and my two girls. There was always plenty of room for us on SE, CofP, IASW, Living with the Land, and the little boat ride in Mexico. I don't think our not coming as often is a big win for Disney.

I don't think I ever traded discussion with you before.

I don't think Disney is trying to get rid of anyone. It's those who said that they are not coming back who is getting rid of themselves. Adapt to the new system and change with it is all I think people should do.

 

[LuvFFPlus]

I do know quite a few who have declined annual pass renewals for the next year.

So did they purchase those ultra cheap PAP and it's more expensive to renewal?
Maybe they will just go back to buy pass from UT instead.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I respect the POV on the other side but it was your side to start slamming me after I posted that I love the new system.

Where exactly did I slam you? I haven't said anything about you personally.

But the problem you described is nothing new. Assuming that your family rides once on each ride only due to your DD situation then split up the fp+ time and then take turns. I did that in the past even with fp- w/o RS.

The problem I described is new for us, because we haven't had to deal with it under the previous FP system.

You are right, though, in that we could split up DH and I's FPs..use one for one tier one, one for the other...that works in Epcot and DHS. I'll admit I hadn't thought of that. I'll be interested to see what the tiering ends up looking like at MK, where we spend most of our time, and whether or not that same idea will work there.

ETA: That is not the sole source of my concerns with MM+. I have many concerns about the infrastructure which have not been resolved by anything Disney has done to this point. The system requires a well functioning wifi system in the parks as well as a well functioning app, both of which are spotty at best (at least IME) of late.

 

[LuvFFPlus]

The link to the Yahoo article seems to want to freeze my IE, so I'm having trouble with that one.

But, I think the other article presents a well balanced presentation of Disney's thinking behind FP+. People might agree or disagree with, or like or dislike, the transition to FP+, but this article pretty well addresses the argument that a lot of posters have raised that FP- was not "broken" or that Disney is not thinking the whole thing through.

This is the kind of thing that I'm not sure I can agree with. If a system is not "broken" then we should never touch it? I'm sure the same group of people will cry foul that how come a big company like Disney who pride themselves on customer service cannot foresee a problem and preemptively address the problem before it arises.

 

[wisblue]

I know this makes sense to people, but Disney doesn't even pretend to use this a reason for fastpass+. Ride equity is never discussed.

Here is an interesting article that explains how Disney is heading towards an all-inclusive model.

And this is a quote from CFO Rasulo in yahoo finance article:

The link to the Yahoo article seems to want to freeze my IE, so I'm having trouble with that one.

But, I think the other article presents a well balanced presentation of Disney's thinking behind FP+. People might agree or disagree with, or like or dislike, the transition to FP+, but this article pretty well addresses the argument that a lot of posters have raised that FP- was not "broken" or that Disney is not thinking the whole thing through.

 

[LuvFFPlus]

Where exactly did I slam you? I haven't said anything about you personally.

True you didn't slam me. I apologize for that. Someone else did.

The problem I described is new for us, because we haven't had to deal with it under the previous FP system.

You are right, though, in that we could split up DH and I's FPs..use one for one tier one, one for the other...that works in Epcot and DHS. I'll admit I hadn't thought of that. I'll be interested to see what the tiering ends up looking like at MK, where we spend most of our time, and whether or not that same idea will work there.

MK at this point is not tiered and I cannot say what strategy would work in your case but we can come back to visit that when MK is tired.

If you do split up the FP+ at Epcot and DHS then your current problem is not as much as you original think. I'd say your are probably better off with the split fp+ combined with RS if they keep RS.

ETA: That is not the sole source of my concerns with MM+. I have many concerns about the infrastructure which have not been resolved by anything Disney has done to this point. The system requires a well functioning wifi system in the parks as well as a well functioning app, both of which are spotty at best (at least IME) of late.

The infrastructure is a different topic, before this we were talking about the concept and strategy of fp+. With Disney's ability, I'm sure those infrastructure problem will be address.

 

[ArwenMarie]

IMO, what Disney is trying to address is how to ease in to pay to play, e.g., you want more FPs?, it will cost x amt of dollars or the tiered system will apply to resort stays. Stay deluxe, get more FPs and so on. Looks like Disney maybe headed into territory people said would never happen.

I agree.

We know that they are worried about the expense of this hitting the books without seeing the increase in profit that they were expecting.

I suspect they will be used as incentives for resort stays, higher-level resorts, etc.

 

[wisblue]

This is the kind of thing that I'm not sure I can agree with. If a system is not "broken" then we should never touch it? I'm sure the same group of people will cry foul that how come a big company like Disney who pride themselves on customer service cannot foresee a problem and preemptively address the problem before it arises.

To be clear, the "not broken" argument is not one I would make.

While "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" might be a cute expression, you could also say "just because it isn't broken doesn't mean it can't be improved to be of value to more guests and the Disney company as a whole."

The article points out how the old FP- system might have been great for a small number of guests, but not so great for a lot of others.

 

[bcrook]

This is the kind of thing that I'm not sure I can agree with. If a system is not "broken" then we should never touch it? I'm sure the same group of people will cry foul that how come a big company like Disney who pride themselves on customer service cannot foresee a problem and preemptively address the problem before it arises.

I think the article says that Disney is just choosing to go a new direction. The current (or now old system) may or may not have been working fine.

We will see if the their gamble pays off. These forums have been riddled with examples of major corporations launching new initiatives and heading new directions - but the customers didn't follow.

I think you get it though. Disney is creating a brand new game. They are not making amends for the poor slighted people who were neglected in the past.

It sounds like you love the new direction. Disney is already too expensive for me. Cruises are REALLY too expensive. So the idea of getting more money out of less/same amount of people, or creating an all-inclusive cruise like experience in the parks effectively prices me out.

 

[bcrook]

The link to the Yahoo article seems to want to freeze my IE, so I'm having trouble with that one.

But, I think the other article presents a well balanced presentation of Disney's thinking behind FP+. People might agree or disagree with, or like or dislike, the transition to FP+, but this article pretty well addresses the argument that a lot of posters have raised that FP- was not "broken" or that Disney is not thinking the whole thing through.

I checked the link. It seems to be working for me (firefox). But I did quote most of the article in my post.

Oh, I think Disney accounting department thought it through. I am not sure they talked with the marketing, customer service, and IT departments.

 

[Maleficent Dragon]

Your writing style is so familiar. I feel like we've had this discussion before.

As as I mentioned in another thread - the content of the posts, the date of the account creation and username makes it pretty clear that it is a troll account.


But, to be fair and offer the benefit of the doubt, my sister is on this forum and we talk pretty much the same way. She is just more "blunt" than I am.

What you said is so true!

Do you always quote yourself and agree with yourself?

Exactly! Those who bought DVC will have to visit to maximize their investments. If they want to sell DVC then they will lose big time on their purchase. Just like buys a new car, the price drops the minute you left the lot. Those people will be back again I'm sure.

You must not know very much about DVC contracts.

 

[Maleficent Dragon]

-

 

[LuvFFPlus]

To be clear, the "not broken" argument is not one I would make.

While "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" might be a cute expression, you could also say "just because it isn't broken doesn't mean it can't be improved to be of value to more guests and the Disney company as a whole."

The article points out how the old FP- system might have been great for a small number of guests, but not so great for a lot of others.

Okay this I can agree with. We will just have to wait and see how the final product is to comment on. As it stands now due to the many changes it's hard to say who the majority is.

 

[Silock]

It is these forums that taught people to grab as many fp- as possible that caused a need for fp+ to be invented.

Nonsense. There's a lockout period between FPs. There was absolutely nothing preventing anyone from getting a FP except their own will to do so.

For instance, I would regularly pull 3-4 FPs for EE, but only one of Soarin' or TSMM. Why? Because the demand for FPs of Soarin' and TSMM were much higher.

I agree with you on the Disney picks for you but 8 fp- a day is definitely got to go. The extra 5 can go to the next family.

That's not how either system works.

 

[DVCcurious]

I am sure I'm in the minority here but I've always thought.....

They should get rid of fastpass altogether!

I went to Disneyland when I was a kid between 1980-1990 and they didn't have fastpass back then. If you wanted to ride the Matterhorn you stood in line like everybody else. We all stood around for hours on end and we loved it! Now you kids with your "I can't wait even a minute" attitude...when I was younger we didn't have ipads or iphones. We had a phone that was attached to the wall and if you wanted to walk around and talk to someone you had to get a longer cord and sometimes that cord would wrap around someone's neck as you were walking around, but we loved it! We didn't have no stinkin' cable tv. We had rabbit ears and the channels were scratchy and when it was windy you couldn't see anything, and we loved it!

My point is that Disneyland worked well enough without fastpass. It could work just as well again. If you want short lines you get there early or you stay late. But everyone has to wait in line equally and there are no shortcuts. Think of it as Karl Marx's Disney experience.

 

[Silock]

My point is that Disneyland worked well enough without fastpass. It could work just as well again. If you want short lines you get there early or you stay late. But everyone has to wait in line equally and there are no shortcuts.

It only works if you have either low crowds or enough headliners. WDW has neither of those things.

So, while I agree with your point, it comes with a huge asterisk. That works, but only in special circumstances. There just aren't enough headliners at EPCOT, DHS and DAK to accommodate the huge crowds.

 

[LuvFFPlus]

As as I mentioned in another thread - the content of the posts, the date of the account creation and username makes it pretty clear that it is a troll account.
But, to be fair and offer the benefit of the doubt, my sister is on this forum and we talk pretty much the same way. She is just more "blunt" than I am.
Do you always quote yourself and agree with yourself?
You must not know very much about DVC contracts.

And the name calling starts again.
You obviously think that I am the same person as I am trying to have a conversation with.
So how much do you know about DVC contracts? Let me know if you can sell your DVC contracts on the resale market and make a huge profit if you bought direct. Most of these will sell at a loss.
How many points of DVC do you own?
Can you tell me the difference of a DVC contract bought over resale vs direct?
Can you tell me the restrictions of transfers between your multiple DVC contracts?
Can you tell me the complications of owning both resale and direct points and try to use one user id to access the contracts?
Can you tell me the pro and cons of small vs large contracts?
Can you explain to me the reason why BLT has huge % of annual fees lately?
Please educate me on your vast knowledge of DVC, as you have no idea who I am and how much points of DVC I own. Yet you have no problem name calling me and calls me out on your knowledge of DVC.

 

[Angel Ariel]

My point is that Disneyland worked well enough without fastpass. It could work just as well again. If you want short lines you get there early or you stay late. But everyone has to wait in line equally and there are no shortcuts. Think of it as Karl Marx's Disney experience.

Disneyland (just DL alone, even back then) also has a decent # more rides than MK does. DL has added rides since then, and so has MK, but DL still has more attractions than MK does (with less yearly attendance than MK).

Currently DCA alone has slightly more rides (by like 3-4) in than there are in Epcot and DHS combined, and yet there is over 2x more the attendance at Epcot/DHS than there is at DCA.

If WDW had the # of rides-to-guest ratio that DLR has, these "long lines" wouldn't be an issue just as it isn't much of an issue at DLR.