Getting very tired of resale brokers who feel like ghosting is OK. Marking them off my list one by one.

[Paul Stupin]

I’ll continue to express my opinion and encourage everyone to do the same; no one has to agree.

I’m not sure why you think I’m “blacklisted.” My initial thought is that somehow you think consumers like me are put on a list? Like, don’t deal with these people, even though we’ve done hundreds of thousands of dollars in previous business, they’re trouble makers because they expect common courtesy. No clue, but no, I’ll not reconsider my expectation of being treated respectfully.

Regardless of your perception or intent, I think I can appreciate where you’re coming from, although I disagree. So no, there will never be a circumstance where I will accept behaviors I find offensive. Nor will I change my expectations of basic common courtesy.

Now, if you’re suggesting maybe biting my tongue or just ignore practices I find offensive because they have a contract I want..nope, not doing that either. No contract is worth being treated poorly.

In short, I have no issue walking away from brokers, which I have, and the entire purpose of this post. I couldn’t care less if they celebrate my absence or regret alienating a repeat consumer. I choose what I will accept.

Rather than continuing to explain my view over and over, I’m going to end with this. This is my opinion, I value yours, we don’t need to agree, you don’t need to understand me, I don’t need to understand you. This is what I do, you do you! Deal with whomever you choose for your own reasons, I’ll do the same. Thank you for taking time to respond.

Sorry, you’re misinterpreting what I said. I’m saying that the list of brokers with whom you want to do business will diminish the more offended you get by various brokers. It’s not their blacklist..it’s the one you’re creating for yourself the more perceived slights you get.

So, sooner or later, there might be very few resale sites you want to work with. It doesn’t hurt them. It hurts you.

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

With all that has been said on this thread, I think everyone should at least agree on one thing. They are not 'Value Offers', they are 'lowball offers'. And yes lowBall does have a negative connotation, and it should. There are realistically lean offers, and lowball offers. If you make an offer that you know will almost assuredly be declined, it is a lowball offer.

People that make Lowball offers are trying to squeeze a good deal out of some chump that is in over his/her head or is in distress. Once in a while we probably all throw some lowballs out there, but trying to constantly take advantage of people that are already in trouble is a pretty sick way to live.

Count me among the people who emphatically disagree. I cannot understand why you would judge a young family trying to get a fair price for their first DVC contract—saving $15/pt over the average sales price might mean they can buy 150 points instead of 125 and spend an extra day each year on vacation. If there are offers coming in at higher prices of course the seller should chose the better offer—but people are only getting emotional about “value offers” because they are having a hard time selling at the subjective price they think they deserve.

Look at Tom’s example in this thread — some broker thought his offer was beneath them and not worth responding to (and either failed to present it or poorly advised the seller), never responded, only to end up with a lower price than Tom would have been willing to pay months earlier. No seller should be pressured to sell for a price they don’t want to buy at, but no buyer should be shamed for starting with an offer amount they think is a good deal as opposed to the exact midpoint of all contracts sold in the past 5 days/weeks/months.

I am more sympathetic to disdain for people who buy distressed owners out of contracts at distressed prices only to profit off renting points by hogging the most desirable dates after walking points…but I would assume that’s primarily being done by resale brokers? How many of the “lowball offers” people are whining about are actually materially below the instant sale prices offered?

 

[TeamRiley]

Count me among the people who emphatically disagree. I cannot understand why you would judge a young family trying to get a fair price for their first DVC contract—saving $15/pt over the average sales price might mean they can buy 150 points instead of 125 and spend an extra day each year on vacation. If there are offers coming in at higher prices of course the seller should chose the better offer—but people are only getting emotional about “value offers” because they are having a hard time selling at the subjective price they think they deserve.

Look at Tom’s example in this thread — some broker thought his offer was beneath them and not worth responding to (and either failed to present it or poorly advised the seller), never responded, only to end up with a lower price than Tom would have been willing to pay months earlier. No seller should be pressured to sell for a price they don’t want to buy at, but no buyer should be shamed for starting with an offer amount they think is a good deal as opposed to the exact midpoint of all contracts sold in the past 5 days/weeks/months.

I am more sympathetic to disdain for people who buy distressed owners out of contracts at distressed prices only to profit off renting points by hogging the most desirable dates after walking points…but I would assume that’s primarily being done by resale brokers? How many of the “lowball offers” people are whining about are actually materially below the instant sale prices offered?

I didn't say an occasional lowball offer was any big deal. I said that it happens all the time. What I said was:
"trying to constantly take advantage of people that are already in trouble is a pretty sick way to live."

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

I didn't say an occasional lowball offer was any big deal. I said that it happens all the time. What I said was:
"trying to constantly take advantage of people that are already in trouble is a pretty sick way to live."

In that case I agree with you entirely.

 

[AstroBlasters]

I didn't say an occasional lowball offer was any big deal. I said that it happens all the time. What I said was:
"trying to constantly take advantage of people that are already in trouble is a pretty sick way to live."

I am trying to buy it at the lowest price possible and they are trying to sell it for the highest price possible…. which of us is taking advantage of the other?

I am not aware of a way to discern if a seller is in financial distress or has owned the contract for many years/decades and wants to sell it for a significantly higher price than they paid for it.

As a buyer, I only know the home resort, the amount of points available, the use year, and this years dues and potentially next years dues… that is it…

So, an offer is based on what I am willing to pay for or start at negotiating at… nothing more and nothing less….

 

[Sandisw]

Count me among the people who emphatically disagree. I cannot understand why you would judge a young family trying to get a fair price for their first DVC contract—saving $15/pt over the average sales price might mean they can buy 150 points instead of 125 and spend an extra day each year on vacation. If there are offers coming in at higher prices of course the seller should chose the better offer—but people are only getting emotional about “value offers” because they are having a hard time selling at the subjective price they think they deserve.

Look at Tom’s example in this thread — some broker thought his offer was beneath them and not worth responding to (and either failed to present it or poorly advised the seller), never responded, only to end up with a lower price than Tom would have been willing to pay months earlier. No seller should be pressured to sell for a price they don’t want to buy at, but no buyer should be shamed for starting with an offer amount they think is a good deal as opposed to the exact midpoint of all contracts sold in the past 5 days/weeks/months.

I am more sympathetic to disdain for people who buy distressed owners out of contracts at distressed prices only to profit off renting points by hogging the most desirable dates after walking points…but I would assume that’s primarily being done by resale brokers? How many of the “lowball offers” people are whining about are actually materially below the instant sale prices offered?

Why do you assume that it wasn’t the seller who choose not to accept a low offer at that time?

Plenty of sellers turn things down only to make a different decision a few months later. The comment by the broker that it was low was true at that time…we have seen BLT go down in recent months from the $140s to the $120s ans $130s.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Why do you assume that it wasn’t the seller who choose not to accept a low offer at that time?

Plenty of sellers turn things down only to make a different decision a few months later. The comment by the broker that it was low was true at that time…we have seen BLT go down in recent months from the $140s to the $120s ans $130s.

An upcoming dues bill can than have that effect on people…

 

[lilsonicfan]

It's so weird that anyone sees a "lowball offer" as trying to take advantage of some chump who is in distress. This is a business transaction. No one should be emotional about it.

Exactly, I was looking at a SSR contract recently, decided not to pursue, then saw it in the RoFR thread at $85 and kicked myself. I would have jumped at it at $85 but didnt. I think it was listed at $100 or more.

My SSR contract was listed at $110 per point. I offered $80 per point and it was accepted without counter. You can't know unless you try!

 

[tom1944]

It's so weird that anyone sees a "lowball offer" as trying to take advantage of some chump who is in distress. This is a business transaction. No one should be emotional about it.



My SSR contract was listed at $110 per point. I offered $80 per point and it was accepted without counter. You can't know unless you try!

Interesting

Do you recall how long it was on the market?

 

[lilsonicfan]

Interesting

Do you recall how long it was on the market?

It was definitely not a new listing. I want to say 3-4 months or so.

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

Why do you assume that it wasn’t the seller who choose not to accept a low offer at that time?

Plenty of sellers turn things down only to make a different decision a few months later. The comment by the broker that it was low was true at that time…we have seen BLT go down in recent months from the $140s to the $120s ans $130s.

I didn’t say whether or not it was seller’s choice or not—I suggested that the two possibilities were that the seller didn’t see it or the seller chose not to counter, because they were ill advised by their broker. I think advising not to counter at all was clearly poor advice in retrospect—without knowing the exact pricing it’s hard to say whether it was bad advice at the time. I don’t think it was too hard at any point this spring, summer, or fall to see that prices were tending down for almost all resorts. Upon reflection, I suppose I overlooked a 3rd possibility that the broker was telling them they should counter and the seller just didn’t listen.

 

[GrumpyInPhilly]

There is a level of subjectivity to it for sure, but to me, lowball offers are ones that are below what we know contracts are selling for using data we have.

For SSR, many are being bought in the 90s, so IMO $85 isn’t that low. But, offering in the $60 or $70s would be.

For BLT, same thing…we are seeing $120s and $130s so I don’t consider that low…but $100 to $110…yeah, those are lowball.

I've been offering $80 on the dot for a couple of months now so I guess I'm right on the fence.

 

[tom1944]

I've been offering $80 on the dot for a couple of months now so I guess I'm right on the fence.

Do you usually get a counter offer?

 

[Pizzaman12]

Ok so I’m just going to say it.. regardless of the reason, not responding (ghosting) is NEVER OK.

I’m fully aware my offers are very low, but they’re serious offers nonetheless. Even brokers I’ve used before to buy or sell, just don’t respond. I’ve given the benefit of the doubt a few times, but no more. Regardless of the rationale, if you don’t respond to me, you’re never getting a look from me again. I Have a large social media presence which I will actively discuss. We get at least 2-3 requests each day asking for broker recommendations.. just sayen.

Interestingly enough, a few brokers I rarely engaged, are now the only sites I will visit and the 2 biggest ones, I will never endorse or patronize again.

Note to these brokers…be careful how you treat consumers. The 30 second email you don’t send, can and will cost you more than you could fathom. For example..I referred a buyer to the 2 larger brokers on the market. Neither one followed through professionally, one not at all. She currently has 4 (yes FOUR) in ROFR with one just passing. So that’s 5 contracts totaling approx $137,000 in revenue and that’s just 1 person in my very large network.

She didn’t get any response whatsoever from 1 company then a terse response from the other. Those 2 missteps cost each company quite a bit now, and even more in the future.

Simply put… be professional, respectful and do your job. Takes less than a minute to respond Pretty simple. Rant over.

When we were in the market for RIV points I e-mailed a number of brokers who never responded. To your point, I'm sure they're busy. But, this is their job. In some cases, it wasn't even low offers (though most of mine were). They were simple questions that just never got follow-up. Sad to see.

 

[GrumpyInPhilly]

Do you usually get a counter offer?

Sometimes. Never lower than $97 so I moved on.

Do you usually get a counter offer?

 

[Sandisw]

I didn’t say whether or not it was seller’s choice or not—I suggested that the two possibilities were that the seller didn’t see it or the seller chose not to counter, because they were ill advised by their broker. I think advising not to counter at all was clearly poor advice in retrospect—without knowing the exact pricing it’s hard to say whether it was bad advice at the time. I don’t think it was too hard at any point this spring, summer, or fall to see that prices were tending down for almost all resorts. Upon reflection, I suppose I overlooked a 3rd possibility that the broker was telling them they should counter and the seller just didn’t listen.

A broker does not typically tell a seller what they should do...they simply present the offer and ask if you want to accept, counter or reject...unless the seller asks them for advice. None of the brokers in all my sales did that and of course, there were a few times I decided I didn't want to counter...no idea what the broker thought of that decision.

I guess this is really where we differ. Just because a contract ended up selling for less than previous offers that were rejected, does not mean a broker isn’t doing their job, or ill advised a seller, or that they should be handling things differently.

I bet there are a lot more contracts that end up with sellers getting more than previous offer in the end than those that regret walking away from one….all of the sellers of the contracts I bid on doe RIV in March sold for more than the $100/pt I offered them. Lol.

Definitely seems like a wide range of opinions on how each of us views the roles of the broker, and what we are willing to put up with if we want our deals,

 

[thelionqueen]

Sorry, you’re misinterpreting what I said. I’m saying that the list of brokers with whom you want to do business will diminish the more offended you get by various brokers. It’s not their blacklist..it’s the one you’re creating for yourself the more perceived slights you get.

So, sooner or later, there might be very few resale sites you want to work with. It doesn’t hurt them. It hurts you.

Thank you for clarifying your post, I appreciate that. But I do disagree. Blacklisting brokers who don't do the bare minimum is a win. I would never feel it as a loss to walk away from complacency.

Interestingly enough, I saw a contract I wasn't in the market for at all, except it was 100 points, my UY and a resort I love. Made a "value offer" which was accepted without counter. Broker was polite, respectful and responsive.. and.. get this.. did their job. Crazy how that works. I did not expect such a quick acceptance, and, honestly, was waiting for a counter. For whatever reason, this contract stood out and I really wanted it and would likely have nudged up from my offer, but didn't have to.

Offers are offers, and should be treated equally. This is not a high dollar amount by any stretch of the imagination, yet the broker treated me professionally from the first time I reached out. So simple...

 

[smileyanna]

Customers/buyers like @thelionqueen are totally within their rights to move their business away from brokers that don't respond. A nice Julia Roberts "Big Mistake" moment, a la Pretty Woman.

Other buyers who take less offense can decide to continue sending offers to a broader pool of brokers, to their benefit as well. Everyone wins!

 

[tom1944]

I forgot the name of both the firm and agent that were less than professional when I submitted my previous bids.

They might have to get offended by one of my bids again.

 

[Paul Stupin]

Thank you for clarifying your post, I appreciate that. But I do disagree. Blacklisting brokers who don't do the bare minimum is a win. I would never feel it as a loss to walk away from complacency.

Interestingly enough, I saw a contract I wasn't in the market for at all, except it was 100 points, my UY and a resort I love. Made a "value offer" which was accepted without counter. Broker was polite, respectful and responsive.. and.. get this.. did their job. Crazy how that works. I did not expect such a quick acceptance, and, honestly, was waiting for a counter. For whatever reason, this contract stood out and I really wanted it and would likely have nudged up from my offer, but didn't have to.

Offers are offers, and should be treated equally. This is not a high dollar amount by any stretch of the imagination, yet the broker treated me professionally from the first time I reached out. So simple...

Yes, congrats on that OKW contract! My guess would be that the broker probably had an inclination that the seller was somewhat desperate to unload the contract, as is no doubt the case when lowball offers are accepted.

But personally I disagree that every offer should be treated equally, because they all aren’t equal. It’s not a democracy. It might not be courteous if a broker doesn’t get back to you, but I wouldn’t care if I was trying to maximize the price of a contract I was selling.