IF I were shopping for resale RIV…

[DVCsloth]

Our favorite is definitely the boat from BCV to HS. Seems faster/more direct than the Skyliner path. We could definitely walk, but haven’t. In summer we wouldn’t want to walk there, but it definitely could be a nice winter option when our kids are bigger.

The boat is a nice option although it seemed like it was pretty busy and stops at Dolphin/Swan. I also tried the walkway back from HS and it was a pleasant walk, I think it took 18 minutes if I'm not mistaken back to BCV. The family wasn't very interested in walking but the liked the boat.

 

[jolynne28]

Yup, makes sense.

We are Disneylanders…… and we want to be able to walk to wherever we want to go….. but I did love going on a boat…. such a peaceful mode of transportation….

boats are great, until you walk up as they are pulling away and you have to wait, like buses. I will admit, I don't enjoy riding the skyliner, it makes me a little uneasy sometimes, but it is so much more efficient than any other Disney transportation. The monorail feels like a cattle herd, and I'm not sure if I've ever been inside one that didn't smell like pee.
Did you walk to HS from BWV? We did that during out last stay and it was so much closer than we realized. I would definitely do that more often than not.

 

[AstroBlasters]

boats are great, until you walk up as they are pulling away and you have to wait, like buses. I will admit, I don't enjoy riding the skyliner, it makes me a little uneasy sometimes, but it is so much more efficient than any other Disney transportation. The monorail feels like a cattle herd, and I'm not sure if I've ever been inside one that didn't smell like pee.
Did you walk to HS from BWV? We did that during out last stay and it was so much closer than we realized. I would definitely do that more often than not.

We walked there in the morning and it took maybe 10 minutes. We rode the boat back to BW.

It was a sad moment when we went to the after hours event and we had to turn to go to the Grand Floridian bus instead of to the boats….

I agree that “just missing” the boat can be annoying… especially when you make it in time, but then one of your children wore their crocs instead of their tennis shoes and has to run back up to change them…. I think that’s why we ended up walking….

We really wanted to experience all of the methods of transportation.

I think the monorail smells like a military base. I walk in and my first thought was “why do I feel like I am in Pearl Harbor?”.

 

[havoc315]

Not 1 point higher on average. You’re only comparing the resort view studios to BCV here (all resort view). Resort view are harder to obtain at Riv than premium view from what I’ve read.

I’ve stayed at Riviera 5 times. Never had any trouble booking standard/resort view.

And again, this is a great example of “you get what you pay for”

Yes, a water view room is even more expensive. BCV doesn’t have any water view rooms. Better resorts, better views, cost more.

Yes, Riviera is more expensive — in cash bookings, rack rates, points — it’s more expensive than Beach Club and Boardwalk.

Just like Beach Club/ Boardwalk are more expensive than Pop Century.

Are you now going to drop DVC and just stay at Pop Century?

So you likely won’t even have access to the lower point chart reliably. Moreover, you are really only looking at the weekday point charts here. Riv has a bigger weekend increase than BCV, so for people wanting to stay 7 days or on weekends, the point charts between these resorts have bigger differences.

Now look at the 2 bedrooms. If you ever wanted a 2 bedroom, Riv, Poly, and Grand Floridian get eye bleedingly expensive, especially for people who travel during busy weeks.

Are they also eye bleedingly expensive rack rates?! Yes!

Again, the point charts are just reflective of the price of a superior resort.

Just quickly found the 2024 rack rate chart.

Christmas week studios:
BCV studio- $1036 - 28 points
BWV- $1102-1199 depending on view- 24-29 points
Riv- $1202 to $1326 depending on view- 32-40 points
VGF- $1350 to $1448- 37-44 points
Poly: $1256 to $1524-36-53 points

Clearly not a 1:1 ratio, but clear correlation— more expensive rooms are more points to book.

Looking at the point value for the cheapest rooms Christmas week:

BCV: $37 per point
BWV: $46 per point
RIV: $38 per point
VGF: $36 per point
Poly: $35 per point

So BWV stands out as a slightly better “value” when booking points.
The rest are all about the same, though Riviera is actually a better value than BCV by a tiny bit.

Older point charts are more stable through the year; newer resort point charts are a lot “peakier” on weekends and during holidays.

Even if Riv’s studio point chart did in fact match BCV, that larger space would likely mean higher dues overall.

The only real way to reduce dues to numbers people like if creating larger rooms is to inflate the point chart. The high point charts by themselves aren’t an issue, except at a restricted resort that means you have to put more money into that restricted resort, and if you ever sell…you are more than likely going to see a greater loss.

This is part of why resale RIV is seemingly more popular among current RIV owners than non owners. The 150 points they bought direct are not getting them enough park days. But some of them may not want to buy more point directly because of the restrictions and cost difference. It’s a bit of a catch 22.

Personally, while Riv studios might be nice and big, location is my number one factor, and Riviera doesn’t have it.

That’s subjective. I prefer Riviera because I believe it has the best location of any resort, with easy access to my top 2 parks. I love walking from BCV/BWV to Epcot, but it’s a long walk to DHS.

Add in point charts and restrictions, and it should cost less than it does right now on the secondary market.

 

[havoc315]

Look at 1 Bedrooms and 2 Bedrooms and you'll see that there is not just a one or two point difference very quickly. Newer resorts tend to have higher point charts because DVC is able to increase the cost and customers continue to buy.

No, again, the resorts and rooms are nicer, bigger and more sought after as reflected in their rack rates.

Let’s go ahead and look at 1 BR:

I’ll use Independence Day rates— found the 2024 rack rate chart.

1 BR at RIV: $1154 - 48 points - $24 per point
1 BR at BCV: $962 - 38 points - $25 per point

So there you go: for 1 bedrooms, you get almost the exact same value using your points at Riviera and Beach Club. (You get about $1 per point more value at Beach Club)

You're also comparing the lower view type - which is a cash grab in and of itself - especially at Riviera where neither view is particularly stellar - many people even prefer the standard view regardless of the points difference.

Beach Club, in part because of the size of resort is nearly impossible to book at for a long trip if you don't own there. Boardwalk is tough to get a studio or a two bedroom. As DVC properties, both are highly in demand. And yes, customers sometimes pick to stay there, and sometimes choose to book a room that lets them look at a monorail or a savannah. Many customers also are enjoying staying at Riviera, but there tends to be more availability - particularly in the preferred view rooms.

We will have to see. I doubt even DVC knows, I just know as an owner, I would want to get my booking in right at 11 months, because I know if I can't use it there's nowhere else for me to put my points (well, I guess there technically is in II, but it is a terrible value!).

 

[intamin]

We walked there in the morning and it took maybe 10 minutes. We rode the boat back to BW.

It was a sad moment when we went to the after hours event and we had to turn to go to the Grand Floridian bus instead of to the boats….

I agree that “just missing” the boat can be annoying… especially when you make it in time, but then one of your children wore their crocs instead of their tennis shoes and has to run back up to change them…. I think that’s why we ended up walking….

We really wanted to experience all of the methods of transportation.

I think the monorail smells like a military base. I walk in and my first thought was “why do I feel like I am in Pearl Harbor?”.

I like the boats during the cooler weather but the smell of the gas, Florida sun and the loudness of the engines during the summer makes me a little nauseous. I do like the monorail more although you could easily argue it smells like a diaper in there.. at the end of the day they all have their pros/cons just depends on what you're willing to put up with

 

[atthebeachclub]

I’ve stayed at Riviera 5 times. Never had any trouble booking standard/resort view.

And again, this is a great example of “you get what you pay for”

Yes, a water view room is even more expensive. BCV doesn’t have any water view rooms. Better resorts, better views, cost more.

Yes, Riviera is more expensive — in cash bookings, rack rates, points — it’s more expensive than Beach Club and Boardwalk.

Just like Beach Club/ Boardwalk are more expensive than Pop Century.

Are you now going to drop DVC and just stay at Pop Century?






Are they also eye bleedingly expensive rack rates?! Yes!

Again, the point charts are just reflective of the price of a superior resort.

Just quickly found the 2024 rack rate chart.

Christmas week studios:
BCV studio- $1036 - 28 points
BWV- $1102-1199 depending on view- 24-29 points
Riv- $1202 to $1326 depending on view- 32-40 points
VGF- $1350 to $1448- 37-44 points
Poly: $1256 to $1524-36-53 points

Clearly not a 1:1 ratio, but clear correlation— more expensive rooms are more points to book.

Looking at the point value for the cheapest rooms Christmas week:

BCV: $37 per point
BWV: $46 per point
RIV: $38 per point
VGF: $36 per point
Poly: $35 per point

So BWV stands out as a slightly better “value” when booking points.
The rest are all about the same, though Riviera is actually a better value than BCV by a tiny bit.









That’s subjective. I prefer Riviera because I believe it has the best location of any resort, with easy access to my top 2 parks. I love walking from BCV/BWV to Epcot, but it’s a long walk to DHS.

We are going to have to agree to disagree here because you haven’t changed my mind at all here, and I don’t think yours will be changed either. Let’s call a truce and move on.

 

[havoc315]

We are going to have to agree to disagree here because you haven’t changed my mind at all here, and I don’t think yours will be changed either. Let’s call a truce and move on.

All for truce. There are subjective elements, where no right or wrong; preference of location. Whether something is *worth* the asking price.

Then there are objective components, like the actual value of redeeming points. Here, we see that Boardwalk does stand out as a better value by a decent 5-10%. But for the most part, all the other resort point charts have pretty close to the same value. ( standard studios at $35-40 of value per point).

But again, in the end it’s subjective— whether paying in points or cash, it’s the same question. Is Resort A worth $x/ y points more than Resort B. And again, I’m not going to try to convince you that Riviera is worth more than Boardwalk or that Grand Floridian is worth so much more than Pop Century.
Objectively — we know RIV is priced higher than Boardwalk, that Grand Floridian is priced higher than Pop. But whether it’s worth it, that’s purely subjective.

 

[Sandisw]

To each their own. The best part of the resort is the rooms IMO. We love the skyliner . I do think the theming could've been done better like at Portofino Bay or at least make the lobby slightly grander like the actual Hotel Negresco.

Just did one night Portofino and then over to RiV for one night.

Both myself and son felt RiV wins hand down in terms of the resorts. So, it really is a matter of personal appeal.

 

[intamin]

Just did one night Portofino and then over to RiV for one night.

Both myself and son felt RiV wins hand down in terms of the resorts. So, it really is a matter of personal appeal.

I think I'm really just jealous of the gondolas in the water at Portofino such a small touch but it really does add to it. If RIV had boat access to Epcot/HS too it really would take it to the next level but we love it regardless.

 

[Sandisw]

I think I'm really just jealous of the gondolas in the water at Portofino such a small touch but it really does add to it. If RIV had boat access to Epcot/HS too it really would take it to the next level but we love it regardless.

What really surprised me was the ability to simply walk into the lake with nothing to prevent someone from doing it. IMO, accident waiting to happen

Boat access to Epcot would certainly be a great touch. It was a quick boat ride though so that part was nice.

 

[Ruttangel]

Personally, I have never found anything about the Skyliner annoying. Only smooth sailing and good vibes. It’s our favorite form of Disney transportation by far. Having it be just steps outside of Riviera is the icing on that particular cake!

You’ve been very fortunate, I’ve had long waits as cars have been full from CBR and the amount of times it breaks down/shuts down for inclement weather or generally just runs slow puts me off
The absolute worst thing is that it ruins Epcot, you can literally see fake building facades and tiny Eiffel Tower stuck on a roof, not very magical

 

[Patmcpsu]

If you look at the area on Google Earth, it's basically an equilateral triangle between Epcot, HS and Caribbean Beach. My gripes are:

1. The Skyliner route is the two less-busy legs of the triangle, and doesn't include the most obvious leg.
2. Riviera should have been be the nexus point (not Caribbean Beach). That way, the deluxe resort would have the direct access to both parks, and the the value/moderate resorts would have been on their own spur (requiring a transfer to reach the parks). It would have done more to "put Riviera on the map" instead of merely being a stop-along-the way-for most people.

As corny as it sounds, if the transfer station was at Riviera, they could have themed it after a vaguely French/Italian train station with bars/restaurants (and of course, a guy playing an accordion) making it a destination in itself. If I was Disney, I wouldn't pass up any opportunity to sell overpriced food and drinks.

But whatever. The Skyliner was built when Disney's mindset was more like your local public transit authority.

 

[smileyanna]

No, again, the resorts and rooms are nicer, bigger and more sought after as reflected in their rack rates.

Let’s go ahead and look at 1 BR:

I’ll use Independence Day rates— found the 2024 rack rate chart.

1 BR at RIV: $1154 - 48 points - $24 per point
1 BR at BCV: $962 - 38 points - $25 per point

So there you go: for 1 bedrooms, you get almost the exact same value using your points at Riviera and Beach Club. (You get about $1 per point more value at Beach Club)

I think about it this way- if BCV and BWV expired tomorrow, and DVC turned around to sell new 50 year associations/contracts while keeping everything about the two resorts exactly as is, what do we think the points charts would look like? Your analysis suggests DVC would have to keep the same points charts based off of rack rates; I think they would significantly bump them (and the contracts would still fly off the shelves).

 

[Brian Noble]

They don't have to do anything. But it is probably not an accident that room rates are what they are, because Disney would like the best profit on hotel rooms it an get. Given that, it is probably also not an accident that point values roughly correlate with room rates.

I don't have any idea what they plan to do with the BCV and BWV buildings once the DVC leases expire. But, I suspect the rooms will be SIGNIFICANTLY updated. Depending on how that unfolds, it could well justify higher relative room rates, and a higher point chart.

RIV is the resort everyone in the DVC corner of DISboards loves to hate, because it changed the rules on how DVC works. But it seems to be doing just fine as a cash rental at current rates---and Disney still owns a chunk of those rooms, so that matters.

 

[NVDISFamily]

Your analysis suggests DVC would have to keep the same points charts based off of rack rates; I think they would significantly bump them (and the contracts would still fly off the shelves).

My silly brain does have some BCV FOMO for not having reliable access to (what many consider) "the best" EPCOT area resort and that pool. By the time they go to sell BCV 2.0 I'm sure we would blush to think how much direct points would be at that time and I'm very sure that the point charts would also adjust to make it very clear that BCV (and BWV) are the premium resorts and that Riviera.... that's old news WAY over there on that Skyliner thing. I would just be in my mid 60s and have started retirement. I cant' say I would not be tempted.

With that said I think there is still a lot to love with Riviera and I would no be shocked to see many things still happen to bridge the gap between where we are now and 2042+ as guides want to sell "EPCOT/HS" points. I would love to see a boat and/or walking path to the back of EPCOT and have posted silly jokes about how Disney could make that work. We can land in Germany and Italy for sure. In conjunction with that, Aruba looks like a prime spot for a RIV 2.0 "lakeside villas".....

We have had great fun with our RIV direct points we got on a great sale but I am greatly considering a few resale points at the right price so my direct points can continue to be SAP+ and/or to give us a week in a GV every trip when we can make it to Florida on a regular schedule. Anything under/near a 100 a point seems like a good deal.

 

[Patmcpsu]

My silly brain does have some BCV FOMO for not having reliable access to (what many consider) "the best" EPCOT area resort and that pool.

The best resort for accessing Epcot is the Polynesian. The DCV longhouses are a brief walk to the TTC, which offers a direct route to Epcot's front door. Every time I enter Epcot through the International Gateway, it feels like I'm sneaking in.

 

[DanCali]

We have had great fun with our RIV direct points we got on a great sale but I am greatly considering a few resale points at the right price so my direct points can continue to be SAP+ and/or to give us a week in a GV every trip when we can make it to Florida on a regular schedule. Anything under/near a 100 a point seems like a good deal.

I think the value placed on a resale Riviera contract varies greatly by several groups of owners:

(1) Those who already own Riviera direct and want to add on
(2) Those who currently cannot book Riviera at all.
(3) Those with DVC-Y who can book Riviera at 7 months but not at 11 months

I would argue that in terms of willingness to pay (1) > (2) > (3)

Group (1) - love the resort enough to buy direct, probably book it every year and therefore know they will use the resale points at the home resort regularly for the foreseeable future

Group (2) - If they like the resort enough to buy, some are candidates to buy direct (while it's available) and some will buy resale. Many will look at the difference in price between resale/direct, weigh the restrictions, and make a decision.

Group (3) - Have the least need to buy either direct or resale because they can already stay there. Worst case if they pay a point premium for a nicer view and/or a larger room, which are generally available at 7 months. Those who go there often enough and want to save on points to get the cheapest rooms may eventually buy resale but the price has to be "right" for them.

That's a long way of saying that a "good deal" for Group (1) is probably a "mediocre deal" for Group (2) and a "bad deal" for Group (3). But unless supply stays artificially low (it won't because as the resort ages you get more sellers) or the buyers from Group (1) are infinite (they are not), prices have more room to fall.

 

[Patmcpsu]

(3) Those with DVC-Y who can book Riviera at 7 months but not at 11 months

As one of these people, my appeal for buying Riviera resale would be that I don't have to burn a ton of "fancy points" to stay there. Riviera's point chart is eye watering, but it softens the blow when their resale points are among the cheapest WDW options on the resale market.

That said, the resale prices would have to decrease even further for me to bite, as I would still be on the hook for maintenance fees (a lot of points at $9.06/pt). The Riviera's maintenance fees are high for a pretty-new resort, which I take that as a bad omen for the future.

 

[intamin]

The best resort for accessing Epcot is the Polynesian. The DCV longhouses are a brief walk to the TTC, which offers a direct route to Epcot's front door. Every time I enter Epcot through the International Gateway, it feels like I'm sneaking in.

Eh I like IG because it drops me off closer to Japan so I can continue to be obese and eat at shiki sai