Getting very tired of resale brokers who feel like ghosting is OK. Marking them off my list one by one.

[crisi]

If your sophisticated seller wanted you to go back to a buyer and tell them certain information designed to keep the deal moving and let them know what range would get a deal done, how on earth would following the seller’s instructions be a conflict of interest at all, let alone a gross one?

Maybe providing minimal information is the norm in DVC timeshare world or Florida, but in many efficient markets, including multimillion dollar real estate in California (what I’m most familiar with), providing additional context about what it would take to get a deal closed is the norm.

I respect seller’s rights to do things the way they want, but it completely blows my mind why anyone would think it’s to the seller’s advantage to not return with information designed to move the ball forward, even if it’s just a “best and final price is [price you would be happy with].” What exactly do people think the downside with responding is?

If that's the deal, why not list the contract with the lowest possible price and "firm." As a seller, if I list for a higher price and would accept a lower price, I'd expect the broker to not give away that I'm only holding a pair of threes....

Which is why when I sell I'll list my contract at a fair price "firm" with no negotiation. Because I don't trust the broker to act in my best interest.

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

I don't necessarily disagree with you however I will say agents have been very eager to mention what they think "will get it". This usually exclusively happens when speaking with them on the phone.

Something else to think about, if there were no facebook pages/message boards with ROFR threads and the like then there wouldn't be many if any "value" offers like there are currently. The less low offers the higher the selling prices stay. So in effect can it be said that we, and others like us across the internet are indeed the reason that resale prices keep dropping.

See, I want to know which agents make those comments about what “will get it done” because those are the folks that I want to list my contract when I’m ready to sell. If I tell them “I’m listing [resort] at $170 but I’d be OK to sell it at $160” I absolutely want them to start suggesting $165 to people after a week on the market and all the way down to $160 by the end of the month (assuming we’re still in a 5% interest rate environment with DVC prices continuing to creep down).

 

[thelionqueen]

My only comment though is that you seem to be ignoring that they do not have to present all offers as long as the seller has agreed to not getting them.

So, they are doing their job if they have discussed this with the seller…and my guess, as I have said, is that more and more brokers are most likely discussing this with sellers, especially those that offer the instant sale option.

If you are not getting feedback on your offers that are well below asking, then it is very possible and most likely that it was below the threshold of the seller…and why you don’t get an answer.

I know it’s frustrating and you definitely can decide to not work with brokers who you deem to have poor communication practices. But, I think this thread has shown that we all have different ideas of how things should go and what we are willing to accept.

I’m actually not ignoring that fact at all, I’ve referenced it in nearly every reply I’ve made.

And we can agree that everyone has different ways of doing things and what we’re willing to accept

 

[TheDailyMoo]

See, I want to know which agents make those comments about what “will get it done” because those are the folks that I want to list my contract when I’m ready to sell. If I tell them “I’m listing [resort] at $170 but I’d be OK to sell it at $160” I absolutely want them to start suggesting $165 to people after a week on the market and all the way down to $160 by the end of the month (assuming we’re still in a 5% interest rate environment with DVC prices continuing to creep down).

I mean I think this is all a case by case basis. I bet certain agents within certain companies are more willing to bring buyer and seller closer together. It probably also depends if the seller has made it clear that they want the agent actively trying to negotiate for them in a sense. I wonder if every time I've been told what "would probably get it" if the agent was acting on their own accord or on behalf of the seller.

I remember when purchasing our first house years ago we worked with a real pitbull of an agent who had already made a big name for herself as someone who could make any sale. We were a couple of thousand dollars apart when it came down to the end. I was frustrated they wouldn't go the extra couple of thousand lower so I told well then let's split the difference. I said it in a way that I almost wanted it to be insulting as I was frustrated by that point. She never flinched. She said she would get it done and sure enough she did. Point of the anecdote is a good agent worth their salt will take every offer seriously and do their best to bring buyer and seller into agreement. But then again real estate agents get a whole lot more commission than DVC so I guess there's that too.

 

[thelionqueen]

What exactly do people think the downside with responding is?

This is the exact issue. From what I’ve been able to gather from the replies, some feel it’s a gross misuse of 30 seconds of the brokers time. Some feel that “value offers” aren’t serious. Some feel it’s OK to not do your job if you assume it’s a waste of time. Some feel no response is acceptable unless you make a full price offer. Some feel that if you send numerous value offers you should expect to be treated like nothing. And some are just wondering why it’s so hard to copy/paste a stock reply. Numerous different views on what I initially thought was a simple matter. Interesting reading though

 

[Paul Stupin]

This is the exact issue. From what I’ve been able to gather from the replies, some feel it’s a gross misuse of 30 seconds of the brokers time. Some feel that “value offers” aren’t serious. Some feel it’s OK to not do your job if you assume it’s a waste of time. Some feel no response is acceptable unless you make a full price offer. Some feel that if you send numerous value offers you should expect to be treated like nothing. And some are just wondering why it’s so hard to copy/paste a stock reply. Numerous different views on what I initially thought was a simple matter. Interesting reading though

Here’s the thing. No matter how frequently you express your opinion, I don’t think it’s going to change a single broker’s way of doing business, which means you’re going to wind up with fewer and fewer places to make offers as your blacklist grows. The fewer the places with whom you’ll want to work, the less offers you’ll be able to make, diminishing your chances of getting one accepted.

So really the only one you’re hurting is yourself. Or, as many say, you’re cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Maybe reconsider?
.

 

[thelionqueen]

Here’s the thing. No matter how frequently you express your opinion, I don’t think it’s going to change a single broker’s way of doing business, which means you’re going to wind up with fewer and fewer places to make offers as your blacklist grows. The fewer the places with whom you’ll want to work, the less offers you’ll be able to make, diminishing your chances of getting one accepted.

So really the only one you’re hurting is yourself. Or, as many say, you’re cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Maybe reconsider?
.

I’ll continue to express my opinion and encourage everyone to do the same; no one has to agree.

I’m not sure why you think I’m “blacklisted.” My initial thought is that somehow you think consumers like me are put on a list? Like, don’t deal with these people, even though we’ve done hundreds of thousands of dollars in previous business, they’re trouble makers because they expect common courtesy. No clue, but no, I’ll not reconsider my expectation of being treated respectfully.

Regardless of your perception or intent, I think I can appreciate where you’re coming from, although I disagree. So no, there will never be a circumstance where I will accept behaviors I find offensive. Nor will I change my expectations of basic common courtesy.

Now, if you’re suggesting maybe biting my tongue or just ignore practices I find offensive because they have a contract I want..nope, not doing that either. No contract is worth being treated poorly.

In short, I have no issue walking away from brokers, which I have, and the entire purpose of this post. I couldn’t care less if they celebrate my absence or regret alienating a repeat consumer. I choose what I will accept.

Rather than continuing to explain my view over and over, I’m going to end with this. This is my opinion, I value yours, we don’t need to agree, you don’t need to understand me, I don’t need to understand you. This is what I do, you do you! Deal with whomever you choose for your own reasons, I’ll do the same. Thank you for taking time to respond.

 

[crisi]

This is the exact issue. From what I’ve been able to gather from the replies, some feel it’s a gross misuse of 30 seconds of the brokers time. Some feel that “value offers” aren’t serious. Some feel it’s OK to not do your job if you assume it’s a waste of time. Some feel no response is acceptable unless you make a full price offer. Some feel that if you send numerous value offers you should expect to be treated like nothing. And some are just wondering why it’s so hard to copy/paste a stock reply. Numerous different views on what I initially thought was a simple matter. Interesting reading though

30 seconds x how many of these they ignore each day. And it isn't 30 seconds if you are going to present the offer to the seller, wait for a response, hassle the seller for a response some percentage of the time, field the "what is taking so long" queries from some percentage of the buyers while you wait for the sellers to get back to you, work to negotiate a sale (i.e. suggest a counter offer) before you contact the buyer. Which is, according to this thread "their job."

There are likely people out there making lowball offers on many many contracts a week - its a high failure strategy, so you need to make a lot of offers, but the buy cheap, strip to rent, and sell strategy has quite a bit of profit in it without a lot of labor.

I do agree that an automated response "we have received your offer and will respond only if it is accepted or countered" would be nice - but its pretty meaningless for anything other than making the buyer feel good since the response doesn't mean your offer has been followed up on, just that it landed in someone's inbox. And once its in your send folder without a "undeliverable" message, you know that.

 

[tom1944]

What’s a lowball offer?

Take an SSR contract listed for $100 to $105 would $85 be lowball?

Or BLT listed at $140 is $120 or 125 lowball?

 

[Sandisw]

What’s a lowball offer?

Take an SSR contract listed for $100 to $105 would $85 be lowball?

Or BLT listed at $140 is $120 or 125 lowball?

There is a level of subjectivity to it for sure, but to me, lowball offers are ones that are below what we know contracts are selling for using data we have.

For SSR, many are being bought in the 90s, so IMO $85 isn’t that low. But, offering in the $60 or $70s would be.

For BLT, same thing…we are seeing $120s and $130s so I don’t consider that low…but $100 to $110…yeah, those are lowball.

 

[robinb]

I’m not sure why you think I’m “blacklisted.”

What he's saying is that you are creating a blacklist of annoying brokers, thereby making your pool of brokers to buy from smaller. I think you're only hurting yourself if you do. But, you do you.

 

[tom1944]

There is a level of subjectivity to it for sure, but to me, lowball offers are ones that are below what we know contracts are selling for using data we have.

For SSR, many are being bought in the 90s, so IMO $85 isn’t that low. But, offering in the $60 or $70s would be.

For BLT, same thing…we are seeing $120s and $130s so I don’t consider that low…but $100 to $110…yeah, those are lowball.

I agree but I do think some brokers are not as aware of the prices that have been accepted so they have a different perspective on what’s a lowball offer.

I feel that happened on my initial attempts at purchasing BLT. My offers of $137 were looked at as lowball and the brokers either ignored me or reacted poorly.

At least one contract I bid on sold for less than my offer months later.

 

[TeamRiley]

With all that has been said on this thread, I think everyone should at least agree on one thing. They are not 'Value Offers', they are 'lowball offers'. And yes lowBall does have a negative connotation, and it should. There are realistically lean offers, and lowball offers. If you make an offer that you know will almost assuredly be declined, it is a lowball offer.

People that make Lowball offers are trying to squeeze a good deal out of some chump that is in over his/her head or is in distress. Once in a while we probably all throw some lowballs out there, but trying to constantly take advantage of people that are already in trouble is a pretty sick way to live.

 

[thelionqueen]

With all that has been said on this thread, I think everyone should at least agree on one thing. They are not 'Value Offers', they are 'lowball offers'. And yes lowBall does have a negative connotation, and it should. There are realistically lean offers, and lowball offers. If you make an offer that you know will almost assuredly be declined, it is a lowball offer.

People that make Lowball offers are trying to squeeze a good deal out of some chump that is in over his/her head or is in distress. Once in a while we probably all throw some lowballs out there, but trying to constantly take advantage of people that are already in trouble is a pretty sick way to live.

Absolutely disagree on every aspect of this reply

 

[Sandisw]

I agree but I do think some brokers are not as aware of the prices that have been accepted so they have a different perspective on what’s a lowball offer.

I feel that happened on my initial attempts at purchasing BLT. My offers of $137 were looked at as lowball and the brokers either ignored me or reacted poorly.

At least one contract I bid on sold for less than my offer months later.

Remember, though, brokers base it on their own sales, and they list and promote what matches what they know.

So, I honestly don’t place that much importance on that aspect…when I was a buyer, I did my own homework.

And, the market can turn very quickly..so just because the contract you offered on sold for less months later, doesn’t mean a lot because months is a long time for contract prices to change.

 

[thelionqueen]

What he's saying is that you are creating a blacklist of annoying brokers, thereby making your pool of brokers to buy from smaller. I think you're only hurting yourself if you do. But, you do you.

I agree that I’m creating my own blacklist and agree it’s making my pool of options smaller which I’m totally ok with. I don’t see me removing myself from complacent brokers damaging at all.. actually quite the opposite. Thank you for clarifying.

 

[aceshigh73]

People that make Lowball offers are trying to squeeze a good deal out of some chump that is in over his/her head or is in distress. Once in a while we probably all throw some lowballs out there, but trying to constantly take advantage of people that are already in trouble is a pretty sick way to live.

you call someone that is "over their head" a chump.... Admit that we all "throw lowball offers" but yet think we should worry about how someone handles their finances before making an offer?
An offer to buy a resale timeshare isnt coersion.. The seller can reject the offer. If its such a good product that warrants a higher price, the market will present it to them. But how do you know if they are over their head, just want out because they hate WDW now, or someone inherited it and just wants to dump it?

 

[AstroBlasters]

With all that has been said on this thread, I think everyone should at least agree on one thing. They are not 'Value Offers', they are 'lowball offers'. And yes lowBall does have a negative connotation, and it should. There are realistically lean offers, and lowball offers. If you make an offer that you know will almost assuredly be declined, it is a lowball offer.

People that make Lowball offers are trying to squeeze a good deal out of some chump that is in over his/her head or is in distress. Once in a while we probably all throw some lowballs out there, but trying to constantly take advantage of people that are already in trouble is a pretty sick way to live.

I always thought of myself as more of a “liquidity provider” to a niche market who wants to buy a contract that obligates me to ever increasing future liabilities at a price which provides me a “margin of safety” since it is tied to the health of one company.

 

[thelionqueen]

What’s a lowball offer?

Take an SSR contract listed for $100 to $105 would $85 be lowball?

Or BLT listed at $140 is $120 or 125 lowball?

Great points and yes very subjective. That being said, I don’t take anyone’s idea of what they consider “lowball” into consideration at all. They’re not spending my money, I am. So, a lowball offer may naturally be thought of negatively, but that’s up to other’s interpretations not mine.

My offer is what I consider fair, if the seller doesn’t, fine. Neither is negative, it’s simply interpretation of value..nothing more.

 

[aceshigh73]

Great points and yes very subjective. That being said, I don’t take anyone’s idea of what they consider “lowball” into consideration at all. They’re not spending my money, I am. So, a lowball offer may naturally be thought of negatively, but that’s up to other’s interpretations not mine.

My offer is what I consider fair, if the seller doesn’t, fine. Neither is negative, it’s simply interpretation of value..nothing more.

Exactly, I was looking at a SSR contract recently, decided not to pursue, then saw it in the RoFR thread at $85 and kicked myself. I would have jumped at it at $85 but didnt. I think it was listed at $100 or more.