Freedom to Marry Day Protest Planned

[Andy B]

Some of us shudder too, at the thought of what the Patriot Act meant to the power of the executive branch. We don't want Facism any more than a theocracy. A lot of power was taken away after FDR tried to save us all from the Depression, and Congress still makes the laws. Plus, we don't have a state religion--the Founding Fathers made sure of that.

You seem to have enough problems with radical religious groups without there being a state religion. We are becoming a practical secular society even though we nominally have an established one.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Since I've been where you are when it comes to the religious belief v. the equal rights issue, I'm just going to tell you my thought process. May work for you, may not, but it's how I came to the reconciliation between the two that you seem to be looking for.

One man, one woman may well be the only type of marriage that God approves of. Like so many other things that God "thinks" or does, I just don't know, I can't always know, and even if I do know, even if the answers are revealed to me through grace, I might not understand why. That, to me, is the essence of being a Christian - not knowing the unknowable, but having the faith that everything that God does, whether we like it or not, is right for some reason, even if we don't understand the reason, the method, or the outcome.

But for me, the pull of equality could no longer be ignored or pushed aside, because I don't believe that God wants homosexuals, whom he loves every bit as much as heterosexuals, to be denied the basic right of protecting the one person they love most in the world. I readily confess that I don't understand homosexuality, I don't understand how I could feel the same love and attraction for another woman that I do for my husband. But I don't *have* to understand it for it to exist in others.

And since I don't know for certain God's reasons, then who am I to question them? Who am I to say "Yo God, you made a mistake with these people, but don't worry, we'll fix it down here"? Who am I to tell them that God doesn't want them to "do that", when I believe that He is the one that created them as homosexuals?

The conclusion that I finally came to is that I don't have the right to make that decision. I don't have the right to deny such basic equality to people. Whether I consider a gay marriage to truly be a marriage, which to be perfectly honest is still something I sometimes struggle with, is irrelevent. It isn't up to me to impose my idea of marriage onto others, it isn't up to me decide if it's right or wrong. Free will is a gift from God, and IMO, denying that gift of free will by denying the right of homosexuals to marry is a sin in and of itself.

Excellent post!!!! I bow to your superior skills! You said it SO much better than I did.

 

[RickinNYC]

Since I've been where you are when it comes to the religious belief v. the equal rights issue, I'm just going to tell you my thought process. May work for you, may not, but it's how I came to the reconciliation between the two that you seem to be looking for.

One man, one woman may well be the only type of marriage that God approves of. Like so many other things that God "thinks" or does, I just don't know, I can't always know, and even if I do know, even if the answers are revealed to me through grace, I might not understand why. That, to me, is the essence of being a Christian - not knowing the unknowable, but having the faith that everything that God does, whether we like it or not, is right for some reason, even if we don't understand the reason, the method, or the outcome.

But for me, the pull of equality could no longer be ignored or pushed aside, because I don't believe that God wants homosexuals, whom he loves every bit as much as heterosexuals, to be denied the basic right of protecting the one person they love most in the world. I readily confess that I don't understand homosexuality, I don't understand how I could feel the same love and attraction for another woman that I do for my husband. But I don't *have* to understand it for it to exist in others.

And since I don't know for certain God's reasons, then who am I to question them? Who am I to say "Yo God, you made a mistake with these people, but don't worry, we'll fix it down here"? Who am I to tell them that God doesn't want them to "do that", when I believe that He is the one that created them as homosexuals?

The conclusion that I finally came to is that I don't have the right to make that decision. I don't have the right to deny such basic equality to people. Whether I consider a gay marriage to truly be a marriage, which to be perfectly honest is still something I sometimes struggle with, is irrelevent. It isn't up to me to impose my idea of marriage onto others, it isn't up to me decide if it's right or wrong. Free will is a gift from God, and IMO, denying that gift of free will by denying the right of homosexuals to marry is a sin in and of itself.

Holy Moly! GREAT post!

With respect to the specifically highlighted area I selected, this is exactly how I felt when I came to terms with my own homosexuality. For many years, I put my belief system before my own personal happiness and it drove me into a deep depression. I felt that no matter what I did, if I love another man, I was doomed to Hell for an eternity. Nowadays, my belief in God and Christ are still as strong as ever, but I have since also come to realize that I'm not here on this earth to question what God made me. He made every last one of us in His image and His image is a multifaceted and very beautiful one.

 

[BuckNaked]

Thanks, fitswimmer and Rick. There was one more thing I considered while I was trying to figure all of this out.

While I'm in what I'm contemplating will be quite a lengthy period of Purgatory , which sin will result in my being called on the carpet most harshly by God?

In other words, if I say "No gay marriage, no way", but that's not God's view, I'm thinking He will be pretty irritated that I dared question His creation and perpetuate legalized discrimination against His children.

But if I say "yes" to gay marriage, but THAT'S not God's view, He might not be happy, but I think He will recognize that I was trying my best, with all my human failings, to do what is most compassionate for all of His children. And I believe that will count for something, because unlike horseshoes and hand grenades, I believe God does give you points for coming close, even if it is just by trying to do the right thing.

 

[jimmiej]

According to who?

God's Word. I should have been more specific.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Thanks, fitswimmer and Rick. There was one more thing I considered while I was trying to figure all of this out.

While I'm in what I'm contemplating will be quite a lengthy period of Purgatory , which sin will result in my being called on the carpet most harshly by God?

In other words, if I say "No gay marriage, no way", but that's not God's view, I'm thinking He will be pretty irritated that I dared question His creation and perpetuate legalized discrimination against His children.

But if I say "yes" to gay marriage, but THAT'S not God's view, He might not be happy, but I think He will recognize that I was trying my best, with all my human failings, to do what is most compassionate for all of His children. And I believe that will count for something, because unlike horseshoes and hand grenades, I believe God does give you points for coming close, even if it is just by trying to do the right thing.

You're just blowing me away. It's like you're reaching inside my brain and translating my scrambled thoughts into readable English.

If I start my lengthy Purgatory before you, I'll save you a seat!!

 

[BuckNaked]

You're just blowing me away. It's like you're reaching inside my brain and translating my scrambled thoughts into readable English.

Thank you.

If I start my lengthy Purgatory before you, I'll save you a seat!!

Bring snacks.

 

[LuvDuke]

Thanks, fitswimmer and Rick. There was one more thing I considered while I was trying to figure all of this out.

While I'm in what I'm contemplating will be quite a lengthy period of Purgatory , which sin will result in my being called on the carpet most harshly by God?

In other words, if I say "No gay marriage, no way", but that's not God's view, I'm thinking He will be pretty irritated that I dared question His creation and perpetuate legalized discrimination against His children.

But if I say "yes" to gay marriage, but THAT'S not God's view, He might not be happy, but I think He will recognize that I was trying my best, with all my human failings, to do what is most compassionate for all of His children. And I believe that will count for something, because unlike horseshoes and hand grenades, I believe God does give you points for coming close, even if it is just by trying to do the right thing.

I'm saving seats at the bar in Purgatory.

If there's no bar, I'm in Hell.

 

[jimmiej]

So if someone is an orphan, and doesn't have a mother and father to leave, God doesn't approve of their marriage???

God didn't tell them to do so, but he didn't say not to either. Here we have two of the biggest "heroes" of the Old Testament having marriage situations other than one-man/one-woman, and God doesn't ever step in and say, "hey - that's a bad idea."

And it's not like God is silent on the issues either. God comes out and tells David that one of his marriages is bad. But not because of the whole polygamy thing - but because he stole the wife from someone else.

Look, I don't think the Bible is promoting polygamy. But I don't see you can take a book where the main characters are involved in marriages that aren't one-man/one-woman and that the book makes crystal clear that God's idea of marriage is one-man/one-wife.

Straining at a gnat...

Abraham & David were both punished by God for their sins.

 

[LuvDuke]

Since I've been where you are when it comes to the religious belief v. the equal rights issue, I'm just going to tell you my thought process. May work for you, may not, but it's how I came to the reconciliation between the two that you seem to be looking for.

One man, one woman may well be the only type of marriage that God approves of. Like so many other things that God "thinks" or does, I just don't know, I can't always know, and even if I do know, even if the answers are revealed to me through grace, I might not understand why. That, to me, is the essence of being a Christian - not knowing the unknowable, but having the faith that everything that God does, whether we like it or not, is right for some reason, even if we don't understand the reason, the method, or the outcome.

But for me, the pull of equality could no longer be ignored or pushed aside, because I don't believe that God wants homosexuals, whom he loves every bit as much as heterosexuals, to be denied the basic right of protecting the one person they love most in the world. I readily confess that I don't understand homosexuality, I don't understand how I could feel the same love and attraction for another woman that I do for my husband. But I don't *have* to understand it for it to exist in others.

And since I don't know for certain God's reasons, then who am I to question them? Who am I to say "Yo God, you made a mistake with these people, but don't worry, we'll fix it down here"? Who am I to tell them that God doesn't want them to "do that", when I believe that He is the one that created them as homosexuals?

The conclusion that I finally came to is that I don't have the right to make that decision. I don't have the right to deny such basic equality to people. Whether I consider a gay marriage to truly be a marriage, which to be perfectly honest is still something I sometimes struggle with, is irrelevent. It isn't up to me to impose my idea of marriage onto others, it isn't up to me decide if it's right or wrong. Free will is a gift from God, and IMO, denying that gift of free will by denying the right of homosexuals to marry is a sin in and of itself.

Well said.

 

[RickinNYC]

Bring snacks.

We shall be serving children in a lovely sour cream based sauce on a bed of noodles.

 

[LuvDuke]

So if someone is an orphan, and doesn't have a mother and father to leave, God doesn't approve of their marriage???

God didn't tell them to do so, but he didn't say not to either. Here we have two of the biggest "heroes" of the Old Testament having marriage situations other than one-man/one-woman, and God doesn't ever step in and say, "hey - that's a bad idea."

And it's not like God is silent on the issues either. God comes out and tells David that one of his marriages is bad. But not because of the whole polygamy thing - but because he stole the wife from someone else.

Look, I don't think the Bible is promoting polygamy. But I don't see you can take a book where the main characters are involved in marriages that aren't one-man/one-woman and that the book makes crystal clear that God's idea of marriage is one-man/one-wife.

Didn't Jacob have 2 wives, Rachel and Leah?

 

[Fitswimmer]

We shall be serving children in a lovely sour cream based sauce on a bed of noodles.

But NO OKRA!!!!!

 

[jimmiej]

But why? How exactly does it hurt you that there are homosexuals in this world?

That wasn't my point.

IF (big IF) you are correct and it is a sin, then it's God thing to deal with not ours.

IA. However, for those that believe in God, it's a good thing to know His standards.

 

[BuckNaked]

We shall be serving children in a lovely sour cream based sauce on a bed of noodles.

And fried okra.

 

[RickinNYC]

And fried okra.

Clearly you did not recognize the very obvious fact that this particular vile substance is not on the menu.

Pergatory: NO okra shall be served

Hell: Okra all day, all the time

 

[Missy1961]

Since I've been where you are when it comes to the religious belief v. the equal rights issue, I'm just going to tell you my thought process. May work for you, may not, but it's how I came to the reconciliation between the two that you seem to be looking for.

One man, one woman may well be the only type of marriage that God approves of. Like so many other things that God "thinks" or does, I just don't know, I can't always know, and even if I do know, even if the answers are revealed to me through grace, I might not understand why. That, to me, is the essence of being a Christian - not knowing the unknowable, but having the faith that everything that God does, whether we like it or not, is right for some reason, even if we don't understand the reason, the method, or the outcome.

But for me, the pull of equality could no longer be ignored or pushed aside, because I don't believe that God wants homosexuals, whom he loves every bit as much as heterosexuals, to be denied the basic right of protecting the one person they love most in the world. I readily confess that I don't understand homosexuality, I don't understand how I could feel the same love and attraction for another woman that I do for my husband. But I don't *have* to understand it for it to exist in others.

And since I don't know for certain God's reasons, then who am I to question them? Who am I to say "Yo God, you made a mistake with these people, but don't worry, we'll fix it down here"? Who am I to tell them that God doesn't want them to "do that", when I believe that He is the one that created them as homosexuals?

The conclusion that I finally came to is that I don't have the right to make that decision. I don't have the right to deny such basic equality to people. Whether I consider a gay marriage to truly be a marriage, which to be perfectly honest is still something I sometimes struggle with, is irrelevent. It isn't up to me to impose my idea of marriage onto others, it isn't up to me decide if it's right or wrong. Free will is a gift from God, and IMO, denying that gift of free will by denying the right of homosexuals to marry is a sin in and of itself.

Please let me add my thanks to the others for such a great post. I too have struggled with this, and I think you articulated it far better than I could ever do.

And if we are all in Purgatory together, I'll bring the cheesecake.

 

[jimmiej]

Didn't Jacob have 2 wives, Rachel and Leah?

Their father, Laban, deceived Jacob into sleeping with Leah when he (Jacob) had been pledged to Rachel. He did have children with both.

 

[BuckNaked]

***deleted because I misread a quote***

 

[BuckNaked]

And if we are all in Purgatory together, I'll bring the cheesecake.

No cheesecake, or I won't want to leave.