Freedom to Marry Day Protest Planned

[Missy1961]

No cheesecake, or I won't want to leave.

Good point.

 

[Laura]

You seem to have enough problems with radical religious groups without there being a state religion. We are becoming a practical secular society even though we nominally have an established one.

The radicals want a state religion, but that's their problem. Not happening.

ETA: But in a lot of ways, I do wish the US citizens resembled those in the UK rather more. At least across the pond, gays get some rights. But we're getting there.

 

[iloveboardwalk]

God's Word. I should have been more specific.

Which god?

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

I think you will find that God had little to say on many subjects it was his 'Prophets' who wrote those books which hundreds of years later another group of interested parties selected to go in an approved collection. I happen to believe that it is possible that some of the writers and those selecting the texts had their own agendas.

The Bible is the Word of God.

God and His Word are one. He's awesome enough to make sure His Word is done right.

 

[BuckNaked]

The Bible is the Word of God.

God and His Word are one. He's awesome enough to make sure His Word is done right.

I'm totally down with the Word of God, it's the translators that worry me.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

There are two issues here Joe - a moral issue and a rights issue. If you beleive homosexuality to be immoral, I doubt we can ever change your mind.

However, you cannot ignore the rights issue. You allow the governement to provide services to *straight* sinner. Yet you continually argue that the government shouldn't recognzie the marriage of gay sinners. Your view that the governement should discriminate between straight and gay sinners isn't a moral issue, it's a rights issue. You want to see discrimiation - not for moral reasons - but for simple bigotry.

No, the govenment shouldn't recognize a relationship that is and of itself immoral, whether homosexual or polygamy.

 

[Laura]

The Bible is the Word of God.

God and His Word are one. He's awesome enough to make sure His Word is done right.

Sure, but I have a degree in English, and if there's one thing I learned, it's that two people can read the exact same document and come away with completely different interpretations. It's a little freaky sometimes.

 

[iloveboardwalk]

No, the govenment shouldn't recognize a relationship that is and of itself immoral, whether homosexual or polygamy.

By what authority can you or anyone else declare someone else's relatioship immoral, assuming the parties to the relationship are of legal age?

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

Being homosexual or heterosexual ist not a choice
People can neither choose their sexual orientation nor their parents.

People choose a homosexual lifetyle or is some cases bisexuality (or are they just "so confused").

 

[BuckNaked]

No, the govenment shouldn't recognize a relationship that is and of itself immoral, whether homosexual or polygamy.

OK, try this on for size. You're married, right? Does your wife wear a burkha when she leaves the house? If not, why not? Some Muslims believe she should. I know you don't believe that way, but who cares? Somebody in this country with a deep, religious belief (in the same God you worship, BTW) believes it is immoral for her to leave the house uncovered.

I'm not sure what you don't understand about the United States not having a state religion, but we don't. Therefore, what your religion or my religion says is immoral is irrelevant to the way laws are made.

 

[fabshelly]

Since I've been where you are when it comes to the religious belief v. the equal rights issue, I'm just going to tell you my thought process. May work for you, may not, but it's how I came to the reconciliation between the two that you seem to be looking for.

One man, one woman may well be the only type of marriage that God approves of. Like so many other things that God "thinks" or does, I just don't know, I can't always know, and even if I do know, even if the answers are revealed to me through grace, I might not understand why. That, to me, is the essence of being a Christian - not knowing the unknowable, but having the faith that everything that God does, whether we like it or not, is right for some reason, even if we don't understand the reason, the method, or the outcome.

But for me, the pull of equality could no longer be ignored or pushed aside, because I don't believe that God wants homosexuals, whom he loves every bit as much as heterosexuals, to be denied the basic right of protecting the one person they love most in the world. I readily confess that I don't understand homosexuality, I don't understand how I could feel the same love and attraction for another woman that I do for my husband. But I don't *have* to understand it for it to exist in others.

And since I don't know for certain God's reasons, then who am I to question them? Who am I to say "Yo God, you made a mistake with these people, but don't worry, we'll fix it down here"? Who am I to tell them that God doesn't want them to "do that", when I believe that He is the one that created them as homosexuals?

The conclusion that I finally came to is that I don't have the right to make that decision. I don't have the right to deny such basic equality to people. Whether I consider a gay marriage to truly be a marriage, which to be perfectly honest is still something I sometimes struggle with, is irrelevent. It isn't up to me to impose my idea of marriage onto others, it isn't up to me decide if it's right or wrong. Free will is a gift from God, and IMO, denying that gift of free will by denying the right of homosexuals to marry is a sin in and of itself.

I love you, man!

It's difficult to remember "Do not seek to know the mind of God". But, it's important that we try, right?
I often wonder if being so hateful and ugly and calling yourself a Christian to the point where it turns people away from Jesus' love, is a sin. Guess I'll find out when I get to heaven!

 

[iloveboardwalk]

People choose a homosexual lifetyle or is some cases bisexuality (or are they just "so confused").

The "choice" issue is a red herring. Who cares if they choose it or if they are born that way? It's irrelavent. Unless they are harming someone else, it's really none of the government's business.

 

[Fitswimmer]

OK, try this on for size. You're married, right? Does your wife wear a burkha when she leaves the house? If not, why not? Some Muslims believe she should. I know you don't believe that way, but who cares? Somebody in this country with a deep, religious belief (in the same God you worship, BTW) believes it is immoral for her to leave the house uncovered.

I'm not sure what you don't understand about the United States not having a state religion, but we don't. Therefore, what your religion or my religion says is immoral is irrelevant to the way laws are made.

Bless you for continuing to try with Joe, but I really fear that he has reached a point from which he will not be moved.

 

[fabshelly]

That wasn't my point.



IA. However, for those that believe in God, it's a good thing to know His standards.

Wow.

Just wow.

Biblical scholars have been debating the myriad versions and translations of the Bible for centuries, but you automatically have all the answers in black and white. Just, wow.

 

[RickinNYC]

No, the govenment shouldn't recognize a relationship that is and of itself immoral, whether homosexual or polygamy.

Personally, it's not relationships that worry me, but the incredibly judgemental immoral individuals who want to enforce their personal beliefs onto others.

 

[salmoneous]

Didn't Jacob have 2 wives, Rachel and Leah?

Yep - many of the Old Testament figures had multiple wives. And not once did God say having multiple wives was bad. God gives literally thousands of laws - what to eat, what to wear, how to cut hair - but not once mentions that marriage should only be between one-man and one-woman. It seems strange to me that somebody could feel the bible gives a clear picture that god only accepts one-woman/one-man marriages, when so many other marriages are there and not-condemned.

JIMMIEJ - They were punished for *other* sins. Unless I've missed something, nowhere in the Bible does it say they were punished for having one wife - only for having a particular wife or motivation.

 

[Laura]

The "choice" issue is a red herring. Who cares if they choose it or if they are born that way? It's irrelavent. Unless they are harming someone else, it's really none of the government's business.

Very true. If it were a choice, it would still be a choice that harms no one.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

Of course not. It's really just Joe who's being hateful and un-Christian. I can totally understand the struggle of the devout on this issue, whichever side they fall on.

Those who deceive others by condoning what God says is wrong are the ones who are harming the brethren.

God loves us all unconditionally but has rules for our benefit. It would be "un-Christian of me (or anyone) to tell someone that it would be better for them to ignore God's rules.

 

[Laura]

Those who deceive others by condoning what God says is wrong are the ones who are harming the brethren.

God loves us all unconditionally but has rules for our benefit. It would be "un-Christian of me (or anyone) to tell someone that it would be better for them to ignore God's rules.

I don't believe in the Bible. So I think what it says about salvation is wrong. And you can't prove I'm wrong in court. So your argument is moot.

 

[RickinNYC]

Those who deceive others by condoning what God says is wrong are the ones who are harming the brethren.

God loves us all unconditionally but has rules for our benefit. It would be "un-Christian of me (or anyone) to tell someone that it would be better for them to ignore God's rules.

Actually, to follow what you're saying, I really only get "God bless most of us".