For $2 Billion Disney could have built 16 major attractions instead of fast pass+

[Laketravis]

It's halfway between a rumor and an announcement.

It's been said is that Star Wars will have a strong presence in the parks but no official announcement as to what's actually coming has been made.

Considering NFE cost almost half a billion dollars and netted a kiddie coaster, a less than spectacular dark shell ride, and a nicely themed restaurant - I wouldn't hold my breath on what Disney considers "a strong presence" these days. In fact, guest reaction to NFE has probably taught them that they really don't have to do all that much after all.

I agree with OP's original point in that there could have been so much more bang for the buck; for $2 billion dollars, Disney could have built A HUNDRED $20 million dollar attractions, still spending almost twice as much on each attraction as other parks do to "make them Disney".

You don't think a land within Disney with upwards of 100 thrill rides wouldn't attract visitors from around the globe? Okay - then let's talk about tamer attractions the entire family can enjoy together without traumatizing a 6 year old. Teacups? Flying Dumbos? Barnstormer? Astro Orbiter? They could have built FOUR HUNDRED of those since they don't have to cost as much; each with much more elaborately themed surroundings @ $5 million tops.

 

[jade1]

Okay - then let's talk about tamer attractions the entire family can enjoy together without traumatizing a 6 year old. Teacups? Flying Dumbos? Barnstormer? Astro Orbiter? They could have built FOUR HUNDRED of those since they don't have to cost as much; each with much more elaborately themed surroundings @ $5 million tops.

Or 6 million of these extreme kids coasters.

 

[Laketravis]

Or 6 million of these extreme kids coasters.

They'd be crazy to put those in.....can you imagine how long the standby wait would be?

 

[Suvadoo]

It's halfway between a rumor and an announcement.

It's been said is that Star Wars will have a strong presence in the parks but no official announcement as to what's actually coming has been made.

I've also seen rumors/announcements about a Pixar presence in the park. I've just heard so many things, but really nothing official. Besides, Disney could leave DHS as is for another 5 years. Look how long it took from the Avatar land announcement and the actual ground breaking ceremony. I thought the whole concept would fade away, like Flamingo Crossing.

 

[MrInfinity]

I thought Star Wars was just a rumor. Has something been announced or is this just wishful thinking?

Several months ago Bob Iger hinted that they didn't buy the enterprises (meaning lucasfilm and marvel) to do nothing with them.

Then just a week ago Iger confirmed that Star Wars will be taking a big place in theme parks worldwide, and they want to "do it big" and "do it right". He also commented on why it hadn't happened yet, that being to see what JJAbrams was doing w the next movie. The Star Wars lands will be based on the new movies and appeal to a new generation of SW fans, not the classics.

Altho not confirmed as being DHS, the writing is on the wall there, with this being the park already dedicated to their movie franchises.

 

[Suvadoo]

Several months ago Bob Iger hinted that they didn't buy the enterprises (meaning lucasfilm and marvel) to do nothing with them.

Then just a week ago Iger confirmed that Star Wars will be taking a big place in theme parks worldwide, and they want to "do it big" and "do it right". He also commented on why it hadn't happened yet, that being to see what JJAbrams was doing w the next movie. The Star Wars lands will be based on the new movies and appeal to a new generation of SW fans, not the classics.

Altho not confirmed as being DHS, the writing is on the wall there, with this being the park already dedicated to their movie franchises.

I appreciate your optimism, but a "worldwide presence" may mean overseas and not even in the US.
I've also heard that they're going to change the name of the park and get rid of all "studio" references since movie making will never happen at DHS.
I just don't think anything is a sure thing until it's officially announced, not just implied.

 

[Laketravis]

Iger confirmed that Star Wars will be taking a big place in theme parks worldwide, and they want to "do it big" and "do it right". He also commented on why it hadn't happened yet, that being to see what JJAbrams was doing w the next movie..

That could also be corporate speak for "We don't yet have a clue what we are going to do with this, so we are waiting to see how the next movie(s) pan out and see if that provides any direction".

Gee...what other blockbuster rights do they own? Oh, wait - I can think of one - and so far all that appears to offer will be a Soarin' type attraction. And of course - more places to eat.

As far as nothing happening now because they don't want to base anything on previous "classics", that sure didn't stop them with New Fantasyland.

 

[MrInfinity]

I appreciate your optimism, but a "worldwide presence" may mean overseas and not even in the US.
I've also heard that they're going to change the name of the park and get rid of all "studio" references since movie making will never happen at DHS.
I just don't think anything is a sure thing until it's officially announced, not just implied.

I've heard that too, which makes sense, but I think they'll keep it movie-based, just not focused on the making of movies. More likely it'll be angled toward experiencing the movies instead.

And you can be as black-helicopter as you like, I'm sure Iger is not going to bring Star Wars overseas only and it will have a major impact here in the states. Doubt me now and revisit this thread in 2 years if you like.

That could also be corporate speak for "We don't yet have a clue what we are going to do with this, so we are waiting to see how the next movie(s) pan out and see if that provides any direction".

I'd guess they're at the ideas stage. There is no question that Star Wars 7 will break all records, ever, on opening day, opening weekend, opening week, etc. It's that anticipated. It's already broken records on most watched trailer.

Gee...what other blockbuster rights do they own? Oh, wait - I can think of one - and so far all that appears to offer will be a Soarin' type attraction. And of course - more places to eat.

Are you talking about Marvel? I'm not sure what will come of Guardians of the Galaxy. Of course Disney is blocked out in the short term from creating competing rides on the east coast with existing Spider Man or Avengers type attractions... but Guardians is all new and fair game. We'll see.

As far as nothing happening now because they don't want to base anything on previous "classics", that sure didn't stop them with New Fantasyland.

Huh? New FL is awesome. Don't know why you're so mad at it. I wish you were a kid and could see it from a kids eyes instead of thinking about how watching someone else's kids act out a skit is not thrilling to you.

Just because something isn't cool to you, is that cause to go around to ppl who like it and go "that sucks" "that sucks" "that's awful" "terrible". Do you do that in real life? If you think someone overpaid for a shirt, do you go to someone at work and say "that shirt sucks dude why'd you spend so much on it" and when they explain why, tell them every day they wear it how much you hate it? It's weird that you put so much effort into hating New FL.

 

[Brian Noble]

and so far all that appears to offer will be a Soarin' type attraction.

Well, given how unpopular the Soarin' experience is, I completely understand your disappointment.

 

[Laketravis]

Are you talking about Marvel?

Avatar.

Huh? New FL is awesome. Don't know why you're so mad at it.

I'm not mad at it. You indicated they wouldn't base something on "previous classics" yet FL is based on a decades old film.

Do you do that in real life? If you think someone overpaid for a shirt, do you go to someone at work and say "that shirt sucks dude why'd you spend so much on it" and when they explain why, tell them every day they wear it how much you hate it? It's weird that you put so much effort into hating New FL.

Why do you take it so personally? You even PM'd me asking why I was so negative about Disneyworld after I just got back and to lighten up. What do you care? I told you I'm not being negative, I'm being critical about what I see to be a negative situation. Why do you care so much? Do you PM everyone who criticizes Disney and ask them "Dude, what's up with that?" and then when they explain it to you, you keep on asking them why they are slamming Disney? Why do you care so much?

I don't put any effort into hating anything, especially FL - I'm simply pointing out a viewpoint that is not just my own but shared by others and you simply don't agree. Does it make a little kid smile? Great. So does an ice cream cone. I saw it thru the eyes of a kid. My own. He rode 7DMT once and said it was too slow. He also wasn't very impressed with much else about it.

I think it's pretty much a letdown for all the hype and money involved.

I suppose I could say the same thing about you and your negative opinions of Maelstrom being turned into a Frozen attraction, but then you might not understand how that's the same.

 

[Laketravis]

Well, given how unpopular the Soarin' experience is, I completely understand your disappointment.

If that is all that Avatar turns out to be, yeah. I think a lot of people could be disappointed.

 

[MrInfinity]

Avatar.

Ah, got it. I'm really excited to see what they do w Avatar! Not everyone follows the movie but the sets have so much potential.

I'm not mad at it. You indicated they wouldn't base something on "previous classics" yet FL is based on a decades old film.

Oh, Iger said that. I was just paraphrasing his words. He said they would not base Star Wars on the first 6 movies, rather it will be based on the 7th movie to come. He was not talking about themes in general following this practice.

It's pretty much a letdown for all the hype and money. I supposed I could say the same thing about you and your opinions of Maelstrom being turned into a Frozen attraction, but then you might not understand how that's the same.

My comments Re: Frozen / Maelstrom were in a thread about Maelstrom becoming Frozen. Totally relevant to that thread. I do not inject any other threads w those thoughts.

 

[MrInfinity]

If that is all that Avatar turns out to be, yeah. I think a lot of people could be disappointed.

Oooh... Doh. Brain lapse there. Now I see what you were talking about regarding the "new Soarin attraction". I thought you meant the 3rd theater at Soarin, but you were talking about the Avatar ride. Gotcha. It could be good. Depends what effects they add to differentiate it from Soarin.

And the boat ride is still on the plan? I dunno. That would be the neatest part to me, to have a ride like Jungle Cruise but thru the Pandora world.

 

[Laketravis]

My comments Re: Frozen / Maelstrom were in a thread about Maelstrom becoming Frozen. Totally relevant to that thread. I do not inject any other threads w those thoughts.

Right. And this thread is about what they could have done with so much money. I'm pointing to tangible examples of what they have already done, and how past practice may carry over into future effort, and we get more of the same.

As impressive as FL may be to some, it came with a very, very high price tag. I think they could have gotten much more bang for the buck. Will they follow that same strategy with Avatar and Star Wars? I don't see any compelling evidence that they won't and am anticipating some level of disappointment with the results.

It's Disney, damn it. Why can't they do something that really blows everyone away?

 

[MrInfinity]

It Disney, damn it. Why can't they do something that really blows everyone away?

I would be happy w more on the level of quality that the Enchanted Forest brought. It is so much more than just the SDMT. Let's look at what you don't like, and what most people do...

First off, SDMT. Come on. New half dark ride / half coaster that is appropriate for younger kids than Space Mtn and BTMRR. This was needed. Before you had to be 40" and 44" to ride these, now there is a 38" coaster! When you accept that this ride is on purpose a tamer ride for younger kids than who rode BTMRR and SM, you see just how cool it is. If BTMRR was great for 4-9 year olds and SM for 5-9 year olds, SDMT is an awesome themed coaster that can be ridden by 3-9 year olds who will love it. Stop thinking they were trying to make a thrill ride for you and realize it was for kids like my DS3 and DD6 and you'll see just how cool it is.

Mermaid. I loved Mermaid. Someone commented about seeing the ceiling... I had no clue... I don't watch the ceiling, I was pretty amazed w the detail and animatronics. Nothing revolutionary, but for Little Mermaid fans (primarily girls 5-9) this ride is perfect. Again, not really for you.

Enchanted Tales. Strange experience. I didn't know what to expect, but after seeing my kids in it (who were 3, 6, 7, 11 at the time) it's pretty darn cool. That is if you have young kids who you want to see act out silly things and interact w Belle. I like this ride least of the 3 new experiences, only because it's something that I think I'll do once on a 3-MK-day vacation. I don't see doing it more than that. Thus, the replayability is light.

BOG. This is huge! MK needed a new restaurant, and this delivered in a big way. The theming, the bridge where you hang out, the waterfall, the castle, everything. Major score.

Gaston's. New Quick Service. Signature drink. Can hardly complain!

Prince Eric's. More Quick Service.

Shopping. Tons of new shops added themed to Beauty and Mermaid.

M&G with Ariel. Ok, I don't really need to see Ariel, but she's hugely popular, again, w that young girl crowd.

New rivers and waterfalls! Think about the landmoving that happened here. This was a ground-up earth-sculpting build! They have chasm's built and bridges that span those. It is such an in-depth build. People compare it to HP at Uni which is basically flat ground buildings... Not a comparison! They built chasms, rivers, bridges, waterfalls... on both sides of the paths, and a castle up on a mountain atop it all.

All this was done on basically the space of 20,000 leagues, and all done while the park was open!

None of this is really for you, so you seem to really dislike it, but it's Fantasyland. It's designed for little kids, and in that regard, it was a home run.

But if the sheer magnitude of the work done to make the Enchanted Forest as deep of a sculpted area as it is, then I really don't know what would impress you. I guess, it doesn't have a thrill ride, so it's not cool.

 

[JimmyV]

I would be happy w more on the level of quality that the Enchanted Forest brought. It is so much more than just the SDMT. Let's look at what you don't like, and what most people do...

My issue with NFL is how fast people will outgrow it. That won't matter if there continues to be a new supply of families with kids under the age of 9. But most (if not all) of the "classic" attractions in the MK are ones that people don't outgrow. (HM, PoTC, Splash, Jungle Cruise to name a few). I am not being hyper-critical here, but Little Mermaid is not going to be a ride that holds any more interest as kids grow older than Pooh. And ETWB is cute the first time. But without a child under the age of 9 in your group, is it a "must do"? Same for 7DMT. It will hold the interest of older kids slightly more than Barnstormer. In the end, NFL was a great addition for the younger set, no doubt about it. But missing is the "timeless" nature of the classic Disney attractions. I suspect that the SW treatment will be geared toward the 8-18 age group with the hopes that it continues to appeal to ages beyond that.

 

[Suvadoo]

NFL is Meh IMO. It's purpose was to increase capacity in that area of the park and it was successful, but nothing is a Wow. It seems that more money was spent in revenue generating areas than on attractions. BOG, Gaston's ... Also as far as shopping, it's the same merchandise throughout the park so again nothing unique in this area.

From the reports I've read, Avatarland is not turning out as expected. I think a lot of things that were mentioned have been cut. We shall see.

Over the past 10 years, the things Disney creates in the WDW theme parks have been mediocre. The "promise" is great but the " production" is disappointing. Most of their projects have been about generating more revenue: DVC, hard ticket parties, more marathons, and more restaurants.
When it comes to WDW, I think it's wiser to keep expectations low.

 

[Laketravis]

First off, SDMT. Come on. New half dark ride / half coaster that is appropriate for younger kids than Space Mtn and BTMRR. This was needed. Before you had to be 40" and 44" to ride these, now there is a 38" coaster!

Barnstormer already accomplished that.

BOG. This is huge! Gaston's. New Quick Service. Prince Eric's. More Quick Service. Shopping. Tons of new shops.....

Fully half the attributes you cited illustrate reasons to be concerned.

None of this is really for you, so you seem to really dislike it, but it's Fantasyland. It's designed for little kids, and in that regard, it was a home run.

Again, it's not whether I "like" or "dislike" anything about it, it's about what was accomplished for the huge cost and where the focus obviously was. That's why I think you are missing the point of this thread - the tangible net of where Disney has been investing lately. If you really believe that Fantasy Land was only meant to capture the interest and imagination of 3 to 9 year old's (which turned out to be a major fail for my test market DS9), that could have been accomplished with quite a few additional attractions at much less cost.

I spent a considerable amount of time looking at the construction techniques used. And the level of detail in even the minor, often unseen areas is impressive. So I agree with you in that regard, but those are not things that will hold a little kid's attention.

I don't think it was a "home run" at all, and believe that you are overestimating what it takes to "wow" a child. In fact, I was surprised at how all the hoopla over it died down as quickly as it did. It's been rejuvenated a bit with the opening of 7DMT just about six months ago but that is starting to wane as well. It will be a sad situation indeed if the only aspect of all of this that remains popular over time is the restaurant.

And time will most certainly tell; if Disney follows the same strategy of putting a restaurant, a quick serve, a meet and greet, and a couple of limited interest attractions in a park and calling it a "New Land" like Avatar or Star Wars, then low expectations will certainly be required.

 

[MrInfinity]

My issue with NFL is how fast people will outgrow it. That won't matter if there continues to be a new supply of families with kids under the age of 9. But most (if not all) of the "classic" attractions in the MK are ones that people don't outgrow. (HM, PoTC, Splash, Jungle Cruise to name a few). I am not being hyper-critical here, but Little Mermaid is not going to be a ride that holds any more interest as kids grow older than Pooh. And ETWB is cute the first time. But without a child under the age of 9 in your group, is it a "must do"? Same for 7DMT. It will hold the interest of older kids slightly more than Barnstormer. In the end, NFL was a great addition for the younger set, no doubt about it. But missing is the "timeless" nature of the classic Disney attractions. I suspect that the SW treatment will be geared toward the 8-18 age group with the hopes that it continues to appeal to ages beyond that.

Yeah people will outgrow it. Same thing w Peter Pan and Small World. I've long since outgrown those, but my kids have not. So while I have stopped going to WDW for me I now go for my kids. It's not that Disney is ditching me as a customer once I turn 13, but rather, they are hooking me when I'm 3-9 so that when I'm 25 I'll bring my kids, and they'll bring theirs.

Of course there will continue to be a new supply of families. People will keep having kids and populations grow exponentially.

That just is their target. Not 6-9 so much, I'd say 3-9. Families will have kids 3-9 for the better part of their 20's and 30's. That is the family-vacation-taking crowd.

In the end, NFL was a great addition for the younger set, no doubt about it.

The key to NFL that everyone glosses over that will cause it to stand the test of time... is just how deep of a build it was. From the ground up, sculpting mountains out of flat ground, building rivers, waterfalls, and bridges that are 30' above chasms. These are the reasons it cost a fortune to build.

Sure Six Flags can put in a coaster for less, cuz it's just concrete piers on a parking lot and steel beams exposed. They buy an out-of-the box coaster from Vekoma or whoever and they install it. When you look at the panoramas of NFL you see a rich world built, not just a ride installed.

I suspect that the SW treatment will be geared toward the 8-18 age group with the hopes that it continues to appeal to ages beyond that.

I agree. I think SW will have a ride for the older crowd, but still not "steel mega coaster"... it'll be something unique.

 

[Suvadoo]

I go to WDW for me and I love Peter Pan and Small World, but 7DMT is so-so. I don't think it will withstand the test of time.
I also think Fantasyland in DLR blows WDW's out of the water! The teming and attractions are so much better, IMO