For $2 Billion Disney could have built 16 major attractions instead of fast pass+

[Robo]

We stay at Shades of Green...it's surrounded by the Magnolia and Palms Golf courses. In a seven day vacation, we normally play each course once. These courses are PGA level courses with a military discount ($69). No way we can play courses of this caliber at that price anywhere else (and since I'm from Myrtle Beach, the golf capitol of the world, I know a great course when I see it). We love seeing all the Disney Shows...we get in plenty of rides every day...we enjoy a top level restaurant each night. Vacation, for us, is about having a great time with family...not seeing how much stuff we can cram into a 24 hour day. I have no issue with those that want to ride 50 rides a day to feel they are "Getting their money's worth"...but not everyone vacations the same or for the same reason.

This may give Disney an idea about creating a great new computer-driven system that restricts those frequent (ab)users of golf course reservations, into a better, broader distribution plan.

GolfPass+

Fair is fair.

 

[JimmyV]

This may give Disney an idea about creating a great new computer-driven system that restricts those frequent (ab)users of golf course reservations, into a better, broader distribution plan.

GolfPass+

Fair is fair.

PLEASE SELECT FROM ONE OF THE FOLLOWING OPTIONS:

A: Play holes 1 & 2 starting at 9:15--Play holes 7 & 8 at 11:00--Play holes 16 & 17 at 4:40.

B: Play holes 1 & 2 starting at 11:15--Play holes 7 & 8 at 2:00--Play holes 16 & 17 at 6:40.

B: Play holes 1 & 2 starting at 10:15--Reserved spot for parade at 3:00--Play holes 16 & 17 at 5:20.

You can also book an extra GolfPass+ reservation for the beer and snack cart that will be roaming through the course. You can have a hot dog and beer waiting for you at the 10th tee, but you must go to this special website to reserve that adventure: www.wdw/golfpassplus/magic_beer_cart.com

 

[SCDisneyfanatic]

Now that sounds like a challenging round of golf...I may just need to pass on the GOLFPASS+ and head straight to the beer and hot dogs Sort of like walking past TT so I can collect that oversized Margarita in Mexico! That's what I'm talking about!

 

[jade1]

No doubt our style is not for everyone.

But looks some others are on board-but I will admit we have done everything to death (still love most of it just not the filler rides) do long stays so it makes adding a golf round and a fishing morning much easier.

But I also never said we fish every day, or golf every day.

But we are certainly not making the entire party go somewhere to a golf trip (or fishing trip) for 10 straight days-especially since no where in the world has the 4 WDW parks next door for the evenings.

But even a 10 day stay that means FP+ improves the following dramatically.:

1) Arrival day.

2) Departure day.

3) Fishing morning.

4) Golfing morning.

5) Days after 3AM park closings.

As others have noted they are too busy with even SW and US/IOA-but we have even done those as well-and now we will return for FP+ those nights as to.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

But even a 10 day stay that means FP+ improves the following dramatically.:

1) Arrival day.
2) Departure day.

You make a good point. Previously, WDW did a good job of locking us into a full week onsite, with extended family. We never left the bubble.
Last year, FP+, crazy prices, and the no-show dining fee put an end to our extended family trips, and gave us an odd incentive to only stay onsite (WDW) one/two days per FLA visit with offsite meals.

The few days we were onsite at WDW, we took advantage of our 3 prebooked FP. I discovered that I could convert our two day US tickets to AP's for under $20. Guess which AP's we'll have next year!

Going to WDW is just too much hassle. Meals are a big part of what tipped the boat for us. Making it to ADR's on time has always been inconvenient. Now, the no-show $ just doesn't say, "We appreciate your business." It feels more like a threat, "show up or else." (plus $10 x 10 = $100!)

Maybe others don't do like us, but going to an ADR often means we end up rushing to the bus stop/monorail platform - then waiting 30min for the bus/monorail/boat- getting increasingly frustrated. Often enough, Disney has some excuse: monorail down, staff shift changes, etc. We then rush across the park to get to the ADR on time, then we WAIT some more. It's such a hassle of rush...wait...rush...wait. If I wasn't locked into a specific ADR plus no-show, I wouldn't mind, but I hate being stressed on vacation. too many times we've been seated half an hour PAST our ADR!

 

[jade1]

You make a good point. Previously, WDW did a good job of locking us into a full week onsite, with extended family. We never left the bubble.
Last year, FP+, crazy prices, and the no-show dining fee put an end to our extended family trips, and gave us an odd incentive to only stay onsite (WDW) one/two days per FLA visit with offsite meals.

The few days we were onsite at WDW, we took advantage of our 3 prebooked FP. I discovered that I could convert our two day US tickets to AP's for under $20. Guess which AP's we'll have next year!

Going to WDW is just too much hassle. Meals are a big part of what tipped the boat for us. Making it to ADR's on time has always been inconvenient. Now, the no-show $ just doesn't say, "We appreciate your business." It feels more like a threat, "show up or else." (plus $10 x 10 = $100!)

Maybe others don't do like us, but going to an ADR often means we end up rushing to the bus stop/monorail platform - then waiting 30min for the bus/monorail/boat- getting increasingly frustrated. Often enough, Disney has some excuse: monorail down, staff shift changes, etc. We then rush across the park to get to the ADR on time, then we WAIT some more. It's such a hassle of rush...wait...rush...wait. If I wasn't locked into a specific ADR plus no-show, I wouldn't mind, but I hate being stressed on vacation. too many times we've been seated half an hour PAST our ADR!

The "bold" is exactly why we do stay onsite and deluxe. We do a lot of EPCOT dining/drinks.

Under 10 minutes from leaving our room at BC with no possible interruptions is amazing.

We do split stays with BLT so thats when we do MK dining.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

The "bold" is exactly why we do stay onsite and deluxe. We do a lot of EPCOT dining/drinks.

Under 10 minutes from leaving our room at BC with no possible interruptions is amazing.

We do split stays with BLT so thats when we do MK dining.

We've done very similar, except CL: BC/BWK/CR/Poly/GF, and before that the Swan. We've now stayed all CL! My response was too long, so I cut the part about arriving early (during short stays) to take advantage of an extra breakfast. Again, the new policies have encouraged us to take shorter visits.

Even when going on foot, we've experienced things like: twisted ankle, stuck ride, sudden vomit (like the time someone else's vomit landed all over my sister, and she decided she wanted a clean shirt before eating dinner), that made getting around quickly a problem.

Partly we changed our plans last year for non-WDW reasons. It just occurred to us during the non-WDW part of our trips, we were much more relaxed. Even touring US with FotLA was just so much more relaxing. We just wandered where we wanted. Their resort boat was also delayed in a storm, but it was no worry - because we weren't locked into being anywhere at a specific time.

The cumulative effect of being constrained to specific times all day is not relaxing. Several times, even with a FP, it took us nearly an hour to ride Space Mtn. Then we had to worry about missing the rest of our FP's, or standing in the long kiosk line to change them! If WDW's trains (so to speak) all ran perfectly on time, it would be easier to forgive them.

But MANY WDW systems are so very far from running perfectly. All last year, Magicbands don't work right, the MDE website doesn't work right, kiosk lines were long. Almost always - at least one elevator at CR is not working- sometimes half the them are down. Multiple times the faceplates on our hotel doors fell off. Rides break down all the time.

Disney's solution was to threaten guests with a no show fee instead of fixing the problems on their end. I mean really, it's pretty easy to see, if WDW wants to double capacity in MK, then they ALSO should have added adequate TS dining.

That's what makes it all such a mess right now.
I'm not sure I agree just with the heading of this thread- I think where WDW really missed the boat was in not adding more exciting, non ADR TS dining in MK. They also desperately need to revamp broad areas- like the whole Imagination pavilion. I am glad they've added some dining to the WS, but it is high time to add another pavilion.
I hope they hurry up and open more attractions at AK and HS. I hope the new Norway ride is a big hit!
Would it also be so hard to discreetly double the number of Anna/Elsa greets?
(and why oh why, if they were going to relocate the greet area did they put it in the middle of already congested Fantasyland?)

 

[Gumbo4x4]

OK. Fishing I can see. Lots of lakes (and ocean) in and around FL that are far better suited for fishing than WDW. But the golf is...here comes the pun...on par with other golf resorts. The thing is, you have to divorce yourself from the notion that you are "squeezing it in" and go with the attitude that you are there for a golf vacation surrounded by incredibly beautiful landscaping, happy people, cool hotels, things to do at night, and, if possible, maybe you "squeeze in some park time". It is odd for a Dis'er to ever think that parks should be secondary to any other activity. But it is possible. Just as the runners do during marathon time. They are there to run, and maybe squeeze in some park time as opposed to going to parks and maybe "squeezing in some running". All that said, I have to agree with you on the fishing (and horseback riding). I could never see making that a focal point of my trip. But when I read posts about people taking 10-14 day vacations at WDW, I wonder why so many of them don't at least dip their toes into these activities. 10-14 days of nothing but parks doesn't appeal to me at all.

If we were more frequent visitors, that'd make perfect sense. So, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that notion. It just wouldn't work for "us".

 

[Robo]

Would it also be so hard to discreetly double the number of Anna/Elsa greets?
(and why oh why, if they were going to relocate the greet area did they put it in the middle of already congested Fantasyland?)

That "discrete system" is already running at the current MK M&Gs.

The question is, why don't they add even MORE to that behind the scenes "system" to allow more guests to meet per hour/per day?

Again...

WHY don't they work on improving CAPACITY when they already KNOW how to make that work?

 

[Laketravis]

The cumulative effect of being constrained to specific times all day is not relaxing. Several times, even with a FP, it took us nearly an hour to ride Space Mtn. Then we had to worry about missing the rest of our FP's, or standing in the long kiosk line to change them! If WDW's trains (so to speak) all ran perfectly on time, it would be easier to forgive them.

I have to agree with this. We'd use one FP and in the interim until we could use the next one, the alternative was to stand around and wait or do something else. So we'd try to find something with the shortest SB wait time but even then while standing in line we found ourselves constantly checking the time and making sure we wouldn't miss our next FP.

In the end it seemed simply ridiculous to have to place so much emphasis on a reservation for a 90 second event.

 

[Tonyz]

Ok, I'll be honest... seeing that fact made me a little sick.

BUT... think about the one new ride that we did get this year: Seven Dwarfs. I consider it an instant classic. People have been yelling nonstop about how it's too short, how it's not thrilling enough, how the themeing sucks. So as much as I'd love new attractions, I have nightmares of hearing the complaining about SDMT multiplied 16 times over.

And where would all these rides go? Animal Kingdom is already getting a new area, so probably not there. Magic Kingdom is pretty much full as of now. Yeah, Future World could use a couple big rides, and maybe one new one in World Showcase (I guess we got this but at such a sad cost).

Could Hollywood Studios use like three or four big addictions? Yes. Definitely.

So 16 new attractions, as awesome as it sounds, could never happen. Unless they open a 5th gate which won't be happening for another couple centuries.

But I love that people sit around thinking up little facts like this about WDW. Full on fanatics!

 

[Tonyz]

Meh. The Imagineering crew was given $600MM and came up with new Fantasyland.

Yeah and it's one of the most beautiful areas on property. A nice new dark ride, a great new "thrill" ride, a great quick service area, a widely popular restaurant.

For some people it doesn't matter what Disney does, they're gonna find some way to complain about it.

 

[Tonyz]

Its cultural. I'm generalizing but Asian people in general do not put others in a position of 'losing face'..hense you wouldn't see at Tokyo Disney some adult chastising a CM over something in a manner that is common place in WDW…nor will you see people clamoring to get to a character who by the way roam around freely throughout TDR…People are patient and step back so families can take pictures. That is also not to say the The Japanese aren't kookoo for all things Disney…they run like mad at rope drop to Toy Story. The two parks there are jammed….2 even three hour waits sometimes…people just wait in line patiently and have fun with friends..80% a a TDR park are teenage girls in school blazers and dressed to the max in Disney…

Its hard to explain you would have to visit to understand which I highly recommend doing. Its an other world entirely from what we experience at WDW…very few overweight people, fewer strollers, never saw a scooter…

But its the staff and their total dedication to the brand that is something to see.

Americas could learn a lot from the Japanese. But they're very "collective" while we're all about the "individual." That'll never change. But maybe at least we can try to incorporate it into the most important part of American society... our theme parks.

 

[JanaDee]

No doubt our style is not for everyone.

But looks some others are on board-but I will admit we have done everything to death (still love most of it just not the filler rides) do long stays so it makes adding a golf round and a fishing morning much easier.

But I also never said we fish every day, or golf every day.

But we are certainly not making the entire party go somewhere to a golf trip (or fishing trip) for 10 straight days-especially since no where in the world has the 4 WDW parks next door for the evenings.

But even a 10 day stay that means FP+ improves the following dramatically.:

1) Arrival day.

2) Departure day.

3) Fishing morning.

4) Golfing morning.

5) Days after 3AM park closings.

As others have noted they are too busy with even SW and US/IOA-but we have even done those as well-and now we will return for FP+ those nights as to.

I will agree that FP+ is an advantage for arrival and departure days. It is the other days in between I don't care for it.

 

[JimmyV]

So as much as I'd love new attractions, I have nightmares of hearing the complaining about SDMT multiplied 16 times over.

But you wouldn't. A large part of the kvetching about 7DMT is that Disney put a lot of eggs into the Voyage of the Little Mermaid, ETWB and 7DMT basket as some huge expansion that was supposed to keep us all happy for another decade. In the end, we got a 1970's style clam shell ride that is put to shame by the likes of Pirates and HM, a stage show for a small audience, (which, to be fair, is pretty cool, but not a "must do every time I am in the park" attraction), and a coaster the size of Barnstormer that is put to shame by a creative ride like Splash Mountain, even if you took out the big drop at the end. In other words, the criticism comes form the laser-like focus on that attraction. If Disney built a whole bunch of rides at the same time, there would be less focus on just one. For example, Triceratops takes a little bit of a beating, but not so much because it opened up with the an entire area of AK all at the same time. But if that ride were billed as a standalone expansion and took two years to construct, once it opened, there would have been non-stop abuse heaped upon it. But by opening lots of things at once, the criticism gets watered down. So too if Disney built 10 rides simultaneously. I can promise you that the groans would not be 10 x 7DMT. First, I doubt that the Imagineers would fail 10 times in a row. Second, people would be so glad to have 10 more rides that they wouldn't whine about them.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

The "bold" is exactly why we do stay onsite and deluxe. We do a lot of EPCOT dining/drinks.

Under 10 minutes from leaving our room at BC with no possible interruptions is amazing.

It's why we won't be doing any more ADR's

 

[Laketravis]

But you wouldn't. A large part of the kvetching about 7DMT is that Disney put a lot of eggs into the Voyage of the Little Mermaid, ETWB and 7DMT basket as some huge expansion that was supposed to keep us all happy for another decade. In the end, we got a 1970's style clam shell ride that is put to shame by the likes of Pirates and HM, a stage show for a small audience, (which, to be fair, is pretty cool, but not a "must do every time I am in the park" attraction), and a coaster the size of Barnstormer that is put to shame by a creative ride like Splash Mountain, even if you took out the big drop at the end. In other words, the criticism comes form the laser-like focus on that attraction. If Disney built a whole bunch of rides at the same time, there would be less focus on just one. For example, Triceratops takes a little bit of a beating, but not so much because it opened up with the an entire area of AK all at the same time. But if that ride were billed as a standalone expansion and took two years to construct, once it opened, there would have been non-stop abuse heaped upon it. But by opening lots of things at once, the criticism gets watered down. So too if Disney built 10 rides simultaneously. I can promise you that the groans would not be 10 x 7DMT. First, I doubt that the Imagineers would fail 10 times in a row. Second, people would be so glad to have 10 more rides that they wouldn't whine about them.

Very good points. I was thinking earlier about how Six Flags can build a thrill ride for $10-$12 million, a fraction of the cost Disney spends on one attraction. And before anybody goes off on me pointing out the huge differences between the two (I know), I'm not suggesting they are even close in any way.

But the market for those types of thrill rides is apparently large enough to support upwards of a dozen parks across the country, each of them bigger than MK.

So what if Disney had taken that money and DID open a 5th gate, a thrill-ride park, a "Thrill Kingdom" to satisfy that segment of the market? They could have really done it up well, with upwards of 20 or more different and potentially world-renowned coaster and thrill type attractions and still have enough change left over to do it again 5 times over.

Before you tell me what a horrible idea that is and "But that's not Disney!" - okay, but people probably thought they'd never see a Richard Petty race track with race cars or Downtown Disney or water parks either and I don't think it would have the potential for ridicule any more than that ridiculous carnival section of AK with a poor excuse for a Tony-Hawk imitation ride.

It could have possibly satisfied a hunger in a considerable portion of the market for "more to do" while preserving the nostalgic factor of existing parks.

 

[JimmyV]

Very good points. I was thinking earlier about how Six Flags can build a thrill ride for $10-$12 million, a fraction of the cost Disney spends on one attraction. And before anybody goes off on me pointing out the huge differences between the two (I know), I'm not suggesting they are even close in any way.

But the market for those types of thrill rides is apparently large enough to support upwards of a dozen parks across the country, each of them bigger than MK.

So what if Disney had taken that money and DID open a 5th gate, a thrill-ride park, a "Thrill Kingdom" to satisfy that segment of the market? They could have really done it up well, with upwards of 20 or more different and potentially world-renowned coaster and thrill type attractions and still have enough change left over to do it again 5 times over.

Before you tell me what a horrible idea that is and "But that's not Disney!" - okay, but people probably thought they'd never see a Richard Petty race track with race cars or Downtown Disney or water parks either and I don't think it would have the potential for ridicule any more than that ridiculous carnival section of AK with a poor excuse for a Tony-Hawk imitation ride.

It could have possibly satisfied a hunger in a considerable portion of the market for "more to do" while preserving the nostalgic factor of existing parks.

People are funny with the "it's not Disney" attitude. Truth is, it's completely an ex post facto analysis. If Disney does it, then "it is Disney". Disney wasn't the Muppets...until it was. Disney wasn't Star Wars...until it was. Disney can be a Thrill Kingdom 5th gate. People protest now. But these same people wait in 75 minute lines for Aerosmith's roller coaster. And how was Aerosmith connected to Disney before that? It wasn't.

 

[Laketravis]

People are funny with the "it's not Disney" attitude. Truth is, it's completely an ex post facto analysis. If Disney does it, then "it is Disney". Disney wasn't the Muppets...until it was. Disney wasn't Star Wars...until it was. Disney can be a Thrill Kingdom 5th gate. People protest now. But these same people wait in 75 minute lines for Aerosmith's roller coaster. And how was Aerosmith connected to Disney before that? It wasn't.

I neglected to mention that but you picked it right up - what are most of the attractions with the longest wait times in all of Disney World? Well whadaya know.. the ones with the biggest "thrill" component:

Test Track
Rock n' Roller Coaster
Tower of Terror
Expedition Everest
Big Thunder Mountain
Space Mountain

Maybe the idea of a thrill park isn't so far-fetched after all.

 

[emldrl]

I neglected to mention that but you picked it right up - what are most of the attractions with the longest wait times in all of Disney World? Well whadaya know.. the ones with the biggest "thrill" component:

Test Track
Rock n' Roller Coaster
Tower of Terror
Expedition Everest
Big Thunder Mountain
Space Mountain

Maybe the idea of a thrill park isn't so far-fetched after all.

That would be SO AWESOME!! And if it was villain themed? Wow, that would be the so cool! I don't see why they couldn't have some true thrill rides. That was my only (slight) disappointment with WDW last time.