Do you think a college professor has the right to do this?

[Aisling]

It is difficult to ask a disruption to leave the class, privately after class.

I'm sure the professor did not expect such a bold refusal from a student. The professor, it seems, had no intentions of discussing the problem during the class. The student decided to do that all on her own.

OMG the refusal was outrageous!

 

[heatherwillmom]

No, not at all. I just think the professor should have spoken to her privately after class. Just my opinion.

But she didn't bother to talk to him privately about being late

 

[heatherwillmom]

I love this thread! It's my drama for the day

 

[Aisling]

But she didn't bother to talk to him privately about being late

I was just speaking of the professor's way of dealing with it. I think it's a given that the student was wrong.

 

[Aisling]

I love this thread! It's my drama for the day

But doesn't it get boring when people just go back and forth? Same ole same ole.

 

[heatherwillmom]

It might get boring if I got to read the boards for long periods, but I have to do it when the chance occurs

 

[kaytieeldr]

I wonder if this had been you, any of you, whether you would have had the same response. I doubt it, if in the same situation. I will concede that it would have been wise to approach him, but she didn't. But I surely doubt that ALL of the people here who say she was 100% wrong would feel that way had it been you. In fact, as I read the posts of many of you, I can tell you all weren't / are perfect wonderful beings, and I just can't see some of you not doing something similar.

That WAS me. When my instructor changed the class schedule and my employer changed my work schedule, I went to both explaining the situation. I explained to the instructor that I had to leave by the scheduled time (classes tended to run over) and to my boss that because of the class I might be a few minutes late three consecutive Tuesdays but that I would make up the time. Both were fine with it - probably in large part because I let them know in advance.

 

[LaurenLC]

My husband is a university professor and his school would support him doing this, but he wouldn't because he wants his students to come to class. Many professors have this written in their syllabus which is considered a contract.

 

[Witch Mountain]

Sort of related to this:

Today, as I was on campus in a study nook (because the library was full of end of semester crammers and not as quiet as I like it anymore) outside the Dean's assistant's office.

A student (and his mom) knocked on her door and ended up having a conversation in the hallway because he wanted to dispute a grade. It seems a professor was going to fail the student for failing to attend all the class sessions because he had a conflicting class that met on another of our campuses at the same time.

At first, he was told "It is the professor's prerogative to fail you for attendance," until it was revealed that the class was supposed to meet on the other campus at a completely different time. The student had a valid dispute.

What I gleaned from the conversation (that was very hard to ignore, since it was happening about 10 feet away from me) is that if the student didn't attend all of the class at the *contracted* time and place, the professor is within his rights to fail the student for any attendance issue.

However, the only reason why this student's dispute would be regarded and considered in his favor is that the time and place listed when a student registers is a CONTRACT that the professor must fulfill. So, conversely, if your niece isn't attending at the appointed time and location, the professor could argue that she is not fulfilling her end of the contract.

As I listened to this conversation, I kept thinking of BCB's niece and how she probably wouldn't want to hear the dean's interpretation of attendance issues.

 

[Metsfan520]

She probably already knew the attendance policy of the Professor.

As for BCB, she has posted over on her bike riding thread.

BCB is a guy.

 

[MrsPete]

That WAS me. When my instructor changed the class schedule and my employer changed my work schedule, I went to both explaining the situation. I explained to the instructor that I had to leave by the scheduled time (classes tended to run over) and to my boss that because of the class I might be a few minutes late three consecutive Tuesdays but that I would make up the time. Both were fine with it - probably in large part because I let them know in advance.

How can the instructor change the class schedule after the semester's started? That could impact students' other classes.

 

[NatashaDisneyCM]

I know where I go to school, some professors would do the same thing. And they have every right. This is some thing that should have been discussed ahead of time with him to see if it was an even doable situation.
On the flip side, being a student when I am in class. I cannot stand some one coming in like this, quite or not it does throw the whole feel off in the class to me. It is a distraction no matter what way you slice it.

 

[MrsPete]

A student (and his mom) knocked on her door and ended up having a conversation in the hallway because he wanted to dispute a grade. It seems a professor was going to fail the student for failing to attend all the class sessions because he had a conflicting class that met on another of our campuses at the same time.

At first, he was told "It is the professor's prerogative to fail you for attendance," until it was revealed that the class was supposed to meet on the other campus at a completely different time. The student had a valid dispute.

How'd this reach the end of the semester? I could see a student ending up with two classes for the same timeperiod (or different campuses), but why didn't he drop/change one of them the first week of school when he realized it was an issue? Or, if it was an unusual kind of class that was mostly online or whatever -- I know I had a couple classes that didn't require constant attendance, but they were few in number -- why was the student just making the problem known at the end of the semester?

I'm thinking about something that happened years ago at my first high school: They scheduled me and another teacher to teach a class in the same room at the same time. First day of school, we both showed up! All the students who'd been told to report to our classes showed up! But we didn't all stay all semester -- the two of us quickly realized that there was an empty room across the hall, she took her class there. We immediately told the office it was a problem, and they changed the schedule. We didn't go on a whole semester and then whine, "But this is what we were assigned!"

Obviously, Witch Mountain, this wasn't your doing, but I'm curious about whether these answers came out in the conversation.

 

[kamik86]

I have only followed parts of this thread however in case no one else pointed this out...

The instructor may not have been ABLE to discuss this privately with the student after class. When my classes got out some students would immediately go to the teacher with questions and everyone else would head for the door. I'm assuming this student was in the back since she came in late. So when is he supposed to speak to her?

I'm also assuming this is a larger lecture style class becuase if not this student is VERY much a distraction coming in late. If this is the case the professor may not know the students name so is he supposed to announce to everyone "Can the student who has continually been coming in late see me before she leaves?" is that really much better of a way of handling it?

Or the teacher could have another class after this or somewhere else they need to be.

Most of the time when I needed to speak to a teacher I did that either before class or during office hours (if it would take more then 2 min)

 

[kamik86]

How'd this reach the end of the semester? I could see a student ending up with two classes for the same timeperiod (or different campuses), but why didn't he drop/change one of them the first week of school when he realized it was an issue? Or, if it was an unusual kind of class that was mostly online or whatever -- I know I had a couple classes that didn't require constant attendance, but they were few in number -- why was the student just making the problem known at the end of the semester?

I'm thinking about something that happened years ago at my first high school: They scheduled me and another teacher to teach a class in the same room at the same time. First day of school, we both showed up! All the students who'd been told to report to our classes showed up! But we didn't all stay all semester -- the two of us quickly realized that there was an empty room across the hall, she took her class there. We immediately told the office it was a problem, and they changed the schedule. We didn't go on a whole semester and then whine, "But this is what we were assigned!"

Obviously, Witch Mountain, this wasn't your doing, but I'm curious about whether these answers came out in the conversation.

I'm wondering if this was like my class this semester. I'm an off campus student and the lectures are recorded for me to watch online but there is a class there during the taping as well. The instructor at least 4 times this semester (oh and this class only meets 1 night a week so that is a significant number of class periods) decided he had a conflict and either pre-recorded the class or made the class up later in the week. Now since it was recorded he let anyone that wasn't able to make the new class watch online and it was no problem but he did fully expect those that didn't have a conflict to show up at the new time.

Now had this not been a den class (those that aren't registered as den classes don't get the whole class being recorded) students with a conflict could have potentially missed 4 lectures. Which would be enough to adversely affect an attendance grade and make a student fail.

During my undergrad I had a few teachers move finals. So teachers can move classes. (In these cases it was a matter of a small class of 10 or so students and the teacher told us that if we didn't want a Friday final so we could leave early we could find another time that worked for all of us and she would move it.)

 

[Styx Fan]

I'm really surprised at the emphasis so many colleges place on attendance. When I was in college (12,000 student midwest university with good rep), the vast majority of the time attendance was not an issue. My classes were a combination of large lectures and small classes. I can't even imagine someone taking attendance at a 200 person lecture.

We were graded according to our papers and tests....how much we learned....period. I had a Sociology 100 class that I quickly figured out the prof taught directly from the text book. I rarely went to class and got an "A". Warming a seat would not have done a thing for me. Other classes I never missed as it would have affected my learning.

As for the the OP niece....she definitely should have spoken to the prof before knowingly coming in late every week. E-mail is a wonderful tool! But he was a jerk to order her out of class that way....he could have easily (and with much less distraction to the class) told her as she came in to see him after class. Between the 2 of them they did disrupt the class. Her response was poor, but on the other hand I'm sure she was taken off guard and didn't want to miss class after getting there.

Being a night class, which usually means adult student, often coming from work or other responsibility, there is often an issue with lateness. My major was very popular with older students so we had many, many night classes. It was always a different vibe than the daytime classes.

 

[Praying Colonel]

I know it's an Internet cliche, but I can't help it: this thread is full of win.

 

[happygirl]

I know it's an Internet cliche, but I can't help it: this thread is full of win.

I have never heard that before LOL

 

[Mkrop]

I have only followed parts of this thread however in case no one else pointed this out...

The instructor may not have been ABLE to discuss this privately with the student after class. When my classes got out some students would immediately go to the teacher with questions and everyone else would head for the door. I'm assuming this student was in the back since she came in late. So when is he supposed to speak to her?

I'm also assuming this is a larger lecture style class becuase if not this student is VERY much a distraction coming in late. If this is the case the professor may not know the students name so is he supposed to announce to everyone "Can the student who has continually been coming in late see me before she leaves?" is that really much better of a way of handling it?

Or the teacher could have another class after this or somewhere else they need to be.

Most of the time when I needed to speak to a teacher I did that either before class or during office hours (if it would take more then 2 min)

I agree what was the professor suppose to do...

Scenario 1- prof knows her name "Excuse me "Jessica" can I see you after class....still a distraction bc he has stopped teaching to address her.

Scenario 2- prof doesnt know her name "excuse me lady in the purple who keeps coming in late, please see me after class....still a distraction

Scenario 3- prof walks by her desk and tries to quietly tell her...still a distraction

Scenario 4- as class is wrapping up he tries to ask her to stay but she bolts or he does get her attention but she is still embarrassed and sees nothing wrong with her actions, and gives the prof grief

When I was in college, we had some classes with attendance policies, most did not, but most made it clear on Day 1 of class.

 

[Witch Mountain]

How'd this reach the end of the semester? I could see a student ending up with two classes for the same timeperiod (or different campuses), but why didn't he drop/change one of them the first week of school when he realized it was an issue? Or, if it was an unusual kind of class that was mostly online or whatever -- I know I had a couple classes that didn't require constant attendance, but they were few in number -- why was the student just making the problem known at the end of the semester?

I'm thinking about something that happened years ago at my first high school: They scheduled me and another teacher to teach a class in the same room at the same time. First day of school, we both showed up! All the students who'd been told to report to our classes showed up! But we didn't all stay all semester -- the two of us quickly realized that there was an empty room across the hall, she took her class there. We immediately told the office it was a problem, and they changed the schedule. We didn't go on a whole semester and then whine, "But this is what we were assigned!"

Obviously, Witch Mountain, this wasn't your doing, but I'm curious about whether these answers came out in the conversation.

Valid questions, and I was wondering the same thing! We have a lot of asynchronous classes and this was one of them that was a hybrid online and in class meeting course. There apparently were labs once a month where you were expected to attend.

From what I gathered, the catalog and registration info stated that it'd meet at a set time on the main campus, which presented no conflict for the student. It wasn't until the first one was supposed to meet that the professor pulled a "that time doesn't work for me and my other class on the satellite campus conflicts, so we'll have it over on the satellite campus."

Apparently, this student spoke to the professor at that time and explained he was in another required class at this new time, he'd do his best to be there but the possibility existed that he wouldn't. He stated that he was able to coordinate with the other professor and attended two of the four labs.

He asked to make up the work if he couldn't attend and he was told this was not allowed, despite showing documentation that he really did have another class at the exact same time(or at least, that's what he was telling the dean's assistant).

He also took it to the department chair on the main campus, but this professor is not employed on that campus, thus he was told he needed to take it up with the dean on our campus. As he put it "I've been chasing rabbit trails all semester and haven't been able to fix this because I don't have a car to come over here, and the professor is not answering phone calls or emails on the topic because he feels that he made himself clear." Based on that statement, I suspect Mom had come to move him back home and that's why she was with him.

Yeah, I didn't get any substantial work done for ten minutes because it was fascinating. I know the prof in question and I can picture the situation happening as this student described it, too.

And this was for an S/I class, not even a letter grade.