DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[jennab]

Again, getting government assistance doesn't determine that at all.

Correct, but it could be a contributing factor to how severe someone’s developmental disability is. Of course it does not mean that just because someone receives govt assistance that they would even be eligible. Likely just trying to get more information to gain a better understanding of the big picture. I wasn’t asked about govt assistance, but told the CM about accommodations received (without being prompted as I was trying to paint a big picture).

 

[lanejudy]

A person can be fully disabled and not be on government assistance. The question is absolutely inappropriate at best and yes, possibly illegal.

I do not believe it is illegal. I also never made any claim that the answer would guarantee qualifying for DAS. Nobody was asked about income. Neither you nor I were involved; something about the conversation led to the question, which TMK is not a common one. So the CM was trying to discern something.

And disability assistance is not necessarily tied to family income. The basis is the individual’s income and level of disability related to working.

 

[smartlabelprint]

We were approved for DD26, but denied for DS23 yesterday for our upcoming Disneyland Resort trip. The video chat was very stressful, and the CM did not smile once. I felt like we were being interrogated, which I guess is what it was. It was very uncomfortable. I probably should have read this entire thread (and all of the others) before initiating the chat, but I naively thought it would be okay. Maybe it wouldn't have helped us, but it would have managed my expectations. The CM added the second person to the call after going off screen to discuss our case(s), and the second person basically asked the same questions, but was slightly nicer about it.

Our problem is that we rarely tour together (party of 4), so we usually split up and each parent goes with a neurodivergent young adult. We used to get a DAS for each child/young adult, and we would have one parent on each of their passes (so only two could be on a pass). The CM said we could try to use "Queue Reentry," (which I had never heard of), but since one parent can't wait in line while our DS23 waits alone somewhere else, both would have to exit the line and speak to the CM at the entrance each time the line waiting gets to be too much. Exiting the line whenever it gets to be too overwhelming seems problematic (how do they expect us to go backwards through the queue safely, really?), and explaining the situation in every case will cause a lot of stress and anxiety, which is something we have been trying to avoid with GAC/DAS in the past.

I am debating whether to call back and try again, or try the Queue Reentry to see how it goes. The CM didn't really let me explain how it has worked for us in the past. He acknowledged that he wasn't sure how the Queue Reentry would work for us. I asked if we should just buy the LLMP for DD23 (DH and I already have it), and he said he would not recommend that (but that is what we are probably going to do so that we can guarantee some attractions will be available via return times).

The video chat was a very degrading experience. They asked about disability government assistance, even. I wasn't sure if they could do that. We may change our Disney trips after this (usually DLR annually and WDW every other year). Or we can go to the Grand Californian and not to the parks in the future. Think of all the money will we save if we don't buy four park hoppers!

This is so disappointing. It similarly describes 2 of mine that have very different interests. We usually eat and do a ride together and then split off until the next meal.

 

[smartlabelprint]

And they can be partially disabled and need one......you are just making my point for me, being in government assistance means nothing related to the DAS.

The income question wouldn’t likely apply to young adults because parents income isn’t counted. If they have a full time job that put them over the income limit I’d question that they needed a DAS.

 

[Keladry84]

The income question wouldn’t likely apply to young adults because parents income isn’t counted. If they have a full time job that put them over the income limit I’d question that they needed a DAS.

How on earth is income/job related to need for DAS? These two things are not related in any way. DAS is based on need in regards to queue environment. There is no connection between working/holding a job and needs regarding a queue environment.

 

[jennab]

The income question wouldn’t likely apply to young adults because parents income isn’t counted. If they have a full time job that put them over the income limit I’d question that they needed a DAS.

I mean it is possible for people with developmental disabilities to hold jobs with accommodations, same with going to school.

 

[smartlabelprint]

I mean it is possible for people with developmental disabilities to hold jobs with accommodations, same with going to school.

That’s why I specifically said young adult and over the income limit. Based on my children with varying levels of DD, one of whom is intelligent, capable, and will be able to have a job as an adult. It’s my opinion kiddo will still qualify for disability benefits. If he doesn’t, he will have reached a level that no longer needs to be accommodated with DAS and could use other accommodations. If we go back to the GAC/DAS lawsuit and understand what level of accommodation the DAS is designed for-people who don’t have a grasp of the abstract concept of time in order to wait in the line.

 

[jennab]

That’s why I specifically said young adult and over the income limit. Based on my children with varying levels of DD, one of whom is intelligent, capable, and will be able to have a job as an adult. It’s my opinion kiddo will still qualify for disability benefits. If he doesn’t, he will have reached a level that no longer needs to be accommodated with DAS and could use other accommodations. If we go back to the GAC/DAS lawsuit and understand what level of accommodation the DAS is designed for-people who don’t have a grasp of the abstract concept of time in order to wait in the line.

I don’t necessarily agree. Some of these people could work at home or in an area with only a few people. I guess being in a queue/line for long periods of time and working at home are two very different things.

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

We’ll never really know what was said in the conversation. But as @lanejudy pointed out, asking about government assistance is not a common line of questioning, so something the parents said was likely to have sparked it. I can speculate on what it might have been, but we have been asked not to so I’ll refrain.

The other thing I’ll say is that while there are jobs where someone who is profoundly developmentally disabled could do, the majority of jobs (for one reason or another) would probably not be a good fit. So while having a job does not automatically disqualify someone from DAS (just like not having one doesn’t mean someone is automatically granted DAS), it’s fair game for the CM to ask what accommodations have been made so that (or what characteristics of the job enable) someone requesting DAS is able to do that job.

 

[OurBigTrip]

I don’t necessarily agree. Some of these people could work at home or in an area with only a few people. I guess being in a queue/line for long periods of time and working at home are two very different things.

Exactly, working in a controlled environment that accommodates the person, enabling them to earn a living, is very, very different than a crowded queue at Disney.

At my workplace, we have two autistic employees who are phenomenal at their jobs, and earn a very good living. But they're able to do so, in part, because they each have an office as a reasonable accommodation. Their seniority/position would not allow them offices, but it's necessary in order for them to do their jobs, and they are spectacular. But neither of them could wait in a crowded queue for more than 20 minutes, so they both utilize DAS when traveling to Disneyland.

 

[Evita_W]

I do not believe it is illegal. I also never made any claim that the answer would guarantee qualifying for DAS. Nobody was asked about income. Neither you nor I were involved; something about the conversation led to the question, which TMK is not a common one. So the CM was trying to discern something.

And disability assistance is not necessarily tied to family income. The basis is the individual’s income and level of disability related to working.

Actually, we are going through this right now and yes, disability IS tied to family income if you worked less than a certain number of continuous years before becoming disabled. This is something that a lot of people are unaware of and is becoming a huge pain point for us at the moment. This is why the question is not at all valid.

I also did a Google search and found links to sites that won't post on here that explain asking this does indeed violate ADA and how it does so, as it is a form of discrimination for .much the reason I have mentioned.

 

[Evita_W]

The income question wouldn’t likely apply to young adults because parents income isn’t counted. If they have a full time job that put them over the income limit I’d question that they needed a DAS.

Actually, household income is counted if they have worked for less than a certain number of years before becoming disabled, although there can be exceptions if they were disabled before 16 years old I believe is the cut off.

That being said, they could still work full time in an office environment, especially one that provides accommodations and still need a DAS and make quite good money. For example, there is one guy that runs a septic company that posts a lot on social media that has severely Autistic people working for him and they get paid the same as anyone else working in that position would, well some of them a bit more because they earned raises faster as he believes in rewarding the employees who help grow the business. These are people who by the way he describes their needs would need a DAS, but are perfectly capable of doing the job he needs them to do and he leans into their strengths.

 

[Evita_W]

We’ll never really know what was said in the conversation. But as @lanejudy pointed out, asking about government assistance is not a common line of questioning, so something the parents said was likely to have sparked it. I can speculate on what it might have been, but we have been asked not to so I’ll refrain.

The other thing I’ll say is that while there are jobs where someone who is profoundly developmentally disabled could do, the majority of jobs (for one reason or another) would probably not be a good fit. So while having a job does not automatically disqualify someone from DAS (just like not having one doesn’t mean someone is automatically granted DAS), it’s fair game for the CM to ask what accommodations have been made so that (or what characteristics of the job enable) someone requesting DAS is able to do that job.

I don't think it is fair game to ask, I mean can you seriously tell me that anything in your regular life is similar to a theme park? They are different experiences and those who are disabled will have different needs at theme parks than in real life.

 

[jennab]

I don't think it is fair game to ask, I mean can you seriously tell me that anything in your regular life is similar to a theme park? They are different experiences and those who are disabled will have different needs at theme parks than in real life.

I can think of quite a few examples which could be similar to a theme park queue. I think many have been discussed before, here’s a few off the top of my head: airport lines (airlines, bag drop, TSA), sporting events, Black Friday or other event shopping, public transportation, crowded fireworks viewing, etc.

 

[Just_another_figment]

I don't think it is fair game to ask, I mean can you seriously tell me that anything in your regular life is similar to a theme park? They are different experiences and those who are disabled will have different needs at theme parks than in real life.

It’s fair game to ask. You don’t have to answer. But by not answering you may be losing out on accommodations.

And as far as being similar to theme parks, I wait in lines everywhere I go, don’t you? How do you manage that? That’s what they’re asking.

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

I don't think it is fair game to ask, I mean can you seriously tell me that anything in your regular life is similar to a theme park? They are different experiences and those who are disabled will have different needs at theme parks than in real life.

This isn’t about me. It is about the specific applicant and why they can’t wait in lines. We aren’t supposed to talk about specifics here but I can think of a number of parallels in (my) real life to specific theme park triggers that others have mentioned in the past where questions about work or other accommodations would absolutely be appropriate.

How else would you suggest that CMs determine what accommodations would be the least disruptive way to meet a guest’s needs if not by asking about the guest’s real life and experiences? And if the applicant opens a door to an unusual line of questions based on a specific response, why would you not want the CM to pursue it?

 

[Evita_W]

I can think of quite a few examples which could be similar to a theme park queue. I think many have been discussed before, here’s a few off the top of my head: airport lines (airlines, bag drop, TSA), sporting events, Black Friday or other event shopping, public transportation, crowded fireworks viewing, etc.

None of those would I consider normal day to day life. TSA automatically makes accommodations for those who are disabled, usually pulling them to the front of the line though, at least that has been DH and my experience. Sporting events are definitely not like a theme park, you aren't waiting in a 60+ minute line to get in. Crowded fireworks veiwing still has escape routes, unlike a queue, but again you aren't doing this on a day to day basis. In fact none of what you mentioned is part of daily life, which is what they generally are asking about.

 

[jennab]

None of those would I consider normal day to day life. TSA automatically makes accommodations for those who are disabled, usually pulling them to the front of the line though, at least that has been DH and my experience. Sporting events are definitely not like a theme park, you aren't waiting in a 60+ minute line to get in. Crowded fireworks veiwing still has escape routes, unlike a queue, but again you aren't doing this on a day to day basis. In fact none of what you mentioned is part of daily life, which is what they generally are asking about.

It doesn’t have to be part of daily life. What they want to know of how do you manage other similar situations when they come up.

I mean heck, I don’t go to the store daily, but I still used it as an example as it can be a problem and I explained how we accommodated for it.

 

[Evita_W]

This isn’t about me. It is about the specific applicant and why they can’t wait in lines. We aren’t supposed to talk about specifics here but I can think of a number of parallels in (my) real life to specific theme park triggers that others have mentioned in the past where questions about work or other accommodations would absolutely be appropriate.

How else would you suggest that CMs determine what accommodations would be the least disruptive way to meet a guest’s needs if not by asking about the guest’s real life and experiences? And if the applicant opens a door to an unusual line of questions based on a specific response, why would you not want the CM to pursue it?

Ok, this just doesn't make sense, but it is hard to explain why without specifics, but a person should be able to simply state something along the lines of: When situation X occurs, problem Y happens and maybe results in Z being added. Now the reality is situation X is often something that ONLY occurs in theme park settings, I am not saying that is the case for everyone, but for a lot of people. This seriously shouldn't need to be more than a 5 minute discussion and other theme parks have proven that can be done and keep abuse to a minimum. Anything beyond 5 minutes is going into too much detail, really it isn't necessary.

It is also possible that situation X is occurring outside theme parks, but due to the nature of how things are handled on a normal basis, you may not realize that an accommodation is occurring that handles situation X. The closest example to a theme park queue I can think of would be TJ Max and if you have a mobility device, they already make it clear that you are to come to the front of the line, so the length of the line doesn't matter, situation X is already resolved. But even their worst line is nothing compared to the wait at a theme park.

It doesn’t have to be part of daily life. What they want to know of how do you manage other similar situations when they come up.

I mean heck, I don’t go to the store daily, but I still used it as an example as it can be a problem and I explained how we accommodated for it.

I can't think of a single time that I have had a 30+ minute wait outside a theme park, not even at the DMV and there they give you a seat to wait at and you can go to the bathroom, etc. with no issues. Generally if the line is more than 5 minutes long outside a theme park, it would be very rare and the max would be about 10 minutes. Is this not the norm everywhere or are we just lucky where we live?

 

[jennab]

Ok, this just doesn't make sense, but it is hard to explain why without specifics, but a person should be able to simply state something along the lines of: When situation X occurs, problem Y happens and maybe results in Z being added. Now the reality is situation X is often something that ONLY occurs in theme park settings, I am not saying that is the case for everyone, but for a lot of people. This seriously shouldn't need to be more than a 5 minute discussion and other theme parks have proven that can be done and keep abuse to a minimum. Anything beyond 5 minutes is going into too much detail, really it isn't necessary.

It is also possible that situation X is occurring outside theme parks, but due to the nature of how things are handled on a normal basis, you may not realize that an accommodation is occurring that handles situation X. The closest example to a theme park queue I can think of would be TJ Max and if you have a mobility device, they already make it clear that you are to come to the front of the line, so the length of the line doesn't matter, situation X is already resolved. But even their worst line is nothing compared to the wait at a theme park.


I can't think of a single time that I have had a 30+ minute wait outside a theme park, not even at the DMV and there they give you a seat to wait at and you can go to the bathroom, etc. with no issues. Generally if the line is more than 5 minutes long outside a theme park, it would be very rare and the max would be about 10 minutes. Is this not the norm everywhere or are we just lucky where we live?

I think you are being too rigid on how it has to relate specifically to a queue environment.

Without getting too specific, I can think of numerous times my child has had difficulties with waiting or other aspects, and how we’ve had to make accommodations or change how we do something.