Behavior Challenge Thread

[bookwormde]

C&G’s Mama,

It is probably time to meet with your DS’s teacher about the “homework situation”. Since homework at its base level is not logical (why can they not just do this at school), the nature of the homework is typically not designed for our children and all the EF issues, accommodations are appropriate even in K. Generally the first level is to get an agreement to limit the amount of time that is to be spent on homework even if all the work is not done it is “finished”. Second level is to exclude the items that are anxiety generating (both for you and your child) since this is just doing damage with little benefit and is “poisoning” the learning experience. The third stage (where we are) is to adopt a complete work that is appropriate in style and content, can be completed without significant rise in anxiety and has educational benefits.

If you are stressed out imagine how your child is feeling.

Many leading clinicians have come to the conclusion that to a great extent the cost/benefit analysis of homework for spectrum children is so poor that it has little or negative value unless major accommodations are developed.

There is one benefit (side effect) to continuing to do the full and unmodified homework program, it will often turn an aspie into a fully diagnosable HFA or Aspergers child with high levels of anxiety and associated manifestations (typically this occurs along with the rise in social complexity that happens in elementary school).

bookwormde

 

[C&G'sMama]

Bookewormde,

Thank you. I PM'd you.

The last thing we want to do is damage is him. We're trying.

 

[bookwormde]

All we can do is our “Best”, there are lots of things I look back on and say, “what was I thinking”, but then I remember that I was doing the best that I could with the information and support that was available at the time. I would guess that if I knew all that I know now from day 1 and all the supports that are available now were then that my DS may not have qualified for a formal diagnosis.

bookwormde

 

[BeckyScott]

C&G, oh I know what you mean. I think they give homework in kg to get the kids into a "routine", to get them used to the concept.

I have to sit with the kids, individually, and take them thru their homework. There is very little they will do independently. Both are very easily distracted. Oldest DS is doing multi-step problems and can't remember the multi-steps. Or he'll make "silly" mistakes, like he'll have a sheet with 10 subtraction problems, but on 2 of them for some reason he added instead. He gets frustrated because he can't figure out why he keeps doing stuff like that. Youngest DS has insanely large handwriting, so he needs to be reminded to write small and write nicely. I am trying to get oldest DS to be able to do work on his own, I'll get up for a minute here and there, I can't follow him around his entire life supervising work! They can't both sit there at the same time because they only distract each other. I usually have one do their reading time while I work with the other one, then we trade out

You might also want to ask the teacher what is "okay" for you to help with. For example, can DS tell you what to write, but you write it? If DS talks you thru the math problem, can you do the writing? What exactly is okay with her, what happens in the classroom that way. I know I've seen the para's handwriting on much of DS's work. And if it's in your handwriting, my thought is that the teacher knows it's you, not like you're trying to disguise your work and say it was his, I'm *assuming* your handwriting doesn't look like his. Both kid's teachers will also let me modify things to a certain extent. Like with math, I can re-write the problems onto grid paper. Oldest DS is allowed to do his book report in Word instead of writing it on the sheet she gives out. That sort of thing, the assignment is still getting done, I just did a little adapting.

(edited to add: kg is actually a pretty good time to start this idea. I approached it with the teachers as "can we try it this way this time and see if it works?" and the idea that we what we were doing was figuring out what adaptations would be useful later. And if they worked, we could put them in the IEP, but we should try it out first to see. You'll find that most teachers don't care a bit if you've re-written the problems on a different sheet of paper, things like that, they are totally fine with that idea. They're usually happy that you're staying involved and trying.)

I don't know how much that helps, but you know it's only gonna get worse. If you think kg is bad, you oughta see 5th grade.

 

[C&G'sMama]

Becky,

Just knowing you all "get it" helps.

I'm better to day. Bookwormde kicked me back into reality. You know, it's not that important. So I told DS this morning he only has to do tonight's homework. We'll do the other as he wants to. DP and I talked about it and again we are trying to fit him into the "norm". Whatever that is. We realize it won't get easier as he gets older and like Becky says you can't go to work with them when they're older. But we're trying to find that middle ground. I haven't tried doing the writing for him but even when he is keyboarding he gets mad. But if I sit down with him word for word he does okay.

Of course, he's not home yet, DP is with him at speech. That's another thing. These kids are in school from 9 'til 4:15 plus homework. And while we try not to overbook them he wants to do other stuff. So I think the other stuff has to come before homework. His spelling words this week? "the" "and" "it". That is so 3 years old. The teacher promised she'll give him harder words this week but this is the first week for spelling words so she's giving all of the kids the same words. Maybe he can learn to spell them in different languages.

Quick story. When he was having his testing a year ago, just before his 5th birthday. He was asked to come up with a different word for fast. His answer "Rapido, that's Spanish you know"

 

[mechurchlady]

When you get off work you need to rest and have dinner before doing the bills for example. Your kid is overworked, exhausted and strung out. Make an agreement that he can do homework after dinner and before bedtime as long as it gets done.

Husband: Hi, hunny what is for dinner?
Wife: First mow the lawn, pay the bills, call the telephone company about the new line, take out the trash and then walk the dog. Dinner will be take out.

that is how it is for your kid. All day with stress of social life and teachers and whatever and you say "Hi hunny now get to work"

So let him have until after dinner to wind down and get settled down from the day then do homework. Wiating for Bookworm to show up as I remember him saying something to that effect about needing to decompress from school even for kids with no limitatons.

Big hugs and chocolates and sending you one ODD bratty mother
Laurie

 

[C&G'sMama]

Big hugs and chocolates and sending you one ODD bratty mother
Laurie

Thanks Church Lady, although your mom sounds lovely, I'll pass.

DS is eating pizza and watching Phineas and Ferb right now. He usually gets some down time. Last night was just hard because he was just back from vacation and had catching up to do. Tonight he only has to write some spelling words.

 

[BeckyScott]

C&G, spelling is the one area where we don't have to mess with homework. Yet. Yay! DS does have spelling words, of course, but he's staying ahead of the curve enough that I can say, it's the one subject where he doesn't need to study. You take your blessings where you can find them.

I remember we had really silly spelling words like that, too, DH and I used to just laugh at the list. One week one of the words was "a". This for a kid that could spell trapezoid. In first grade he made it the whole school year without missing a single spelling word, and to be completely honest, I never went over them with him at home. What we do now is I look over the list and pull out the two or three hardest words and double-check with him. I'm thinking at some point as the words get harder he might actually need to study them. So far, so good.

I say, fair enough. We have enough other problems, at least the spelling is good to go. But it's hard because that must just bore him to tears at school, to be going over that stuff when he sees it as so obvious. But our kids have enough problems fitting in. I will take what I can get, as far as a skill he has where he excels. We've always joked, sort of, that you know somebody has to edit dictionaries, and they probably make pretty good money at it. So there you go.

Your story reminds me of DS's testing last time. They showed him a photo of a bicycle and asked him what it was. He told them "a traditional form of Chinese transportation". It's very hard to bite your lip and not just bust out laughing when that happens.

 

[BeckyScott]

Me again.

We do have a problem with the timing of things in the evening.

I do understand that the kids need to de-compress, and that's what we usually do. They can mess around until dinner. Then we start homework at 6, bath-time starts at 7, and they are sent to bed at 8. If all goes right. We don't need a full hour for baths, so we can scoot them later if we need to.

But it's also problematic. Once they unwind, they don't want to wind again. Their obsessions with computers and games, and they don't want to walk away from those. Even with a very regular schedule and lots of warning.

This is also "assuming" there is nothing else going on in the afternoon or evening. Which probably 2 days a week, we do have something else going on. Since DH isn't home in the evenings, if I have someplace I need to go, they have to go with. And them taking homework along to do doesn't work. So there have been times when they had to do homework as soon as they got home. I have several friends who are horrified that I don't have the kids do homework as soon as they get home, and I let them play first. Nice to know you all understand. But we really don't do that much, as the kids have gotten older we've dropped things because there just wasn't time. Neither one of them get therapy outside of school. I don't know how you do it if your kid has extra therapy during the week, or if you live in a bigger city where it takes 1/2 hour to get home from school. Or if you do ballet and basketball and Boy Scouts.

 

[DisDreaminMom]

Are we living in a parallel universe? Because I did nothing but homework with kids from 4 o'clock until 7 o' clock and I wanted to shoot myself. Kids were so shot from it that they both volunteered to go to bed at 8 o'clock. I just can't imagine what it will be like in a few years.

Here is my thought on homework. I remember my DS being very upset with homework last year in Kindergarten. I am absolutely certain he was thinking, "I just sat in school all day looking and thinking about this crap and you want me to do MORE? Are you freaking kidding me? Who is that stupid that they can't remember this repetitive idiocy after being drilled incessantly all day? Good God, I need to clear my head. You people are nuts!!!"

(can you tell I didn't much like homework myself?) OK, I have done a semi-scientific experiment and I would like to report that children must be fed immediately before or possibly during homework. Also, at least 30 minutes before getting out homework must be free time for decompression. Any homework done after 6 o'clock will be wrong and possibly result in tears for both of you. So, optimal time for homework is between 4 and 6 but also before dinner. And if you have afterschool activities, then forget it. I try to keep our schedule as clear as possible. If we do have stuff to do then I bring snack or drive through.

Most days, DS doesn't even want to stop by grocery store after school. He just wants to go home and rest. I know he is exhausted from just trying to keep focused for that many hours. DH used to get upset that I won't run errands after school, but now we see difference between overstimulated DS and rested DS. On the days I have to work, DS is like a maniac by the time we pick him up from after-school program.

DH is very angry that teacher gave DS (with certain gender confused issues which get him teased by other boys) Debbie Allen for his Black history project. The teacher wants the kids to DRESS UP as their topic and be interviewed on a pretend "Oprah" show for all the school to see. So what do I do? Put him in drag in tights and a skirt or paint him in blackface (PC alert, not very sensitive-if you are offended, then get your sense of humor back, please)? Either way, my kid will get one more notch in the "freak" category. And DS can read "choreographer" but he could give a rats a@# what it means. Sheesh.

I'm with Becky- how do you parents with after school therapy and Dr's appointments do it? Aren't you just exhausted? I'm so sorry.

I once had a mom tell me I was ruining my childrens' lives because they didn't do lots of lessons and activities all the time. I bet she snorts her kids' Ritalin...

 

[bookwormde]

Before we have our current “agreement” on homework we had an agreement that any homework that we could not complete during the week was acceptable to do on the weekend and turn in on Monday, this is especially helpful since for some reason, therapies and group activities always seem to end up on Thursdays. We still do this with items which I think are educational priorities even though it is not “required”

Also I am often not home from work till late and with DS being an early riser we do all the math and science in the morning when he is fresh and can really enjoy it.

bookwormde

 

[KirstenB]

Are we living in a parallel universe? Because I did nothing but homework with kids from 4 o'clock until 7 o' clock and I wanted to shoot myself. Kids were so shot from it that they both volunteered to go to bed at 8 o'clock. I just can't imagine what it will be like in a few years.

Here is my thought on homework. I remember my DS being very upset with homework last year in Kindergarten. I am absolutely certain he was thinking, "I just sat in school all day looking and thinking about this crap and you want me to do MORE? Are you freaking kidding me? Who is that stupid that they can't remember this repetitive idiocy after being drilled incessantly all day? Good God, I need to clear my head. You people are nuts!!!"

(can you tell I didn't much like homework myself?) OK, I have done a semi-scientific experiment and I would like to report that children must be fed immediately before or possibly during homework. Also, at least 30 minutes before getting out homework must be free time for decompression. Any homework done after 6 o'clock will be wrong and possibly result in tears for both of you. So, optimal time for homework is between 4 and 6 but also before dinner. And if you have afterschool activities, then forget it. I try to keep our schedule as clear as possible. If we do have stuff to do then I bring snack or drive through.

Most days, DS doesn't even want to stop by grocery store after school. He just wants to go home and rest. I know he is exhausted from just trying to keep focused for that many hours. DH used to get upset that I won't run errands after school, but now we see difference between overstimulated DS and rested DS. On the days I have to work, DS is like a maniac by the time we pick him up from after-school program.

DH is very angry that teacher gave DS (with certain gender confused issues which get him teased by other boys) Debbie Allen for his Black history project. The teacher wants the kids to DRESS UP as their topic and be interviewed on a pretend "Oprah" show for all the school to see. So what do I do? Put him in drag in tights and a skirt or paint him in blackface (PC alert, not very sensitive-if you are offended, then get your sense of humor back, please)? Either way, my kid will get one more notch in the "freak" category. And DS can read "choreographer" but he could give a rats a@# what it means. Sheesh.

I'm with Becky- how do you parents with after school therapy and Dr's appointments do it? Aren't you just exhausted? I'm so sorry.

I once had a mom tell me I was ruining my childrens' lives because they didn't do lots of lessons and activities all the time. I bet she snorts her kids' Ritalin...

I'm with your dh!! Is it too late to find somebody cool for Black History Month? A woman assigned to a boy? Are you kidding me? See if he can be somebody like Stevie Wonder, or Scott Joplin or a farmer/inventor like George W. Carver. If he gets teased anyways, then the teacher def needs to give him a cool historical persona.

 

[bookwormde]

Dis DreamMom,

I would be on the phone with the teacher asking exactly what she had in mind with specific detail on how it is possible with “damaging” your child. Remind her that TOM is a big issue for our children so “swapping perspectives” may be a major stressor unless it is 100% scripted and “bought into”

We had a similar situation with an “explores” project. We ended up doing it on William and John Harrison with an impact study on their invention on James Cook. This allowed focus on facts and objects rather than the “person”. He was able to put on a 10-minute presentation virtually unassisted. If you can find a fact or accomplishment from this individual that your child can relate to and focus on that it might make the situation much easier than just a broader social commentary with the person.

bookwormde

 

[mechurchlady]

I come from a long line of Quakers, abolitionists and at least one conductor. Do not even go there with Debbie Allen. She good but there are a ton of Black Americans who have done great things and not just freedom fighting.

http://www.biography.com/search/article.do?id=9511284
Sojourner truth who did what most white women would dare not do, she sued and got her son out of slavery in Alabama. Women did not go to court and sue.

Arthur Ashe is another one I would choose for a boy.
Roy Campenella
Langston Hughes
Countee Cullen
Prince Hall
George Washington Carver
Dr. King

http://www.enchantedlearning.com/history/us/aframer/bios/invent.shtml
Dude invented traffic light and gas mask, another guy invented potato chips and one invented the blood bank.
For white people I would say John Woolman would be an excellent example of an abolitionist.

That teacher needs a good paddling and set down in a very long seminar on being politically correct and how to run a class. Boy the nerve of her asking boys to dress up like ladies and what do they learn from Debbie Allen. Why not talk about the poets and the abolitionist but no they get the watered down modern history.


time for dole whips and chocolates and hugs, boy am I mad
hugs
Laurie

 

[C&G'sMama]

I once had a mom tell me I was ruining my childrens' lives because they didn't do lots of lessons and activities all the time. I bet she snorts her kids' Ritalin...

Did you respond with "It's too bad you don't like spending time with your children, start saving for therapy now?

This is a tough one. We try to keep a balance. Our kids gets out of school at 4:15. Monday DS goes to Chess at 4:30 and DD goes to Piano at 4:45 (we don't qualify for a bus as we live too close, like I'm going to let my 5 and 8 year old walk 1 4/10 miles down an industrial busy street or 1 1/2 miles through a residential neighborhood (or there are roughtly 20 recorded pedophile in a 2 mi radius)) but I digress. Thursdays at 5:00 DS has speech at a local college and Fridays they have gymnastics. So we tried to keep it out of the middle of the week. But now I have signed them up for swim lessons. DD on Tuesday and DS on Wed. It's hard because they want to do these things. So we try to balance it. If they ever get into anything real seriously that takes up a few days a week than they are going to have to choose if they stick with that and give other stuff up or give that up and stick with many things.

So as far as homework, we continue to try to balance.

 

[BeckyScott]

I once had a mom tell me I was ruining my childrens' lives because they didn't do lots of lessons and activities all the time. I bet she snorts her kids' Ritalin...

There's a reason why the doctors keep such a close eye on those prescriptions.

That's one of the reasons why we stopped taekwondo. It was good for the gross motor and teaching discipline and all that. But. Two nights a week, and we were in 3 seperate classes, which meant we were there for almost 3 hours total. (I wouldn't have done it myself, except my class was the middle one and we were there anyway and not really time to leave, go home, and come back) I would just keep my fingers crossed that there wasn't any homework. And when they were younger it was fine, but as they got older now they have homework every night.

I even got to the point pretty quicky where Boy Scouts was more trouble than it was worth. I didn't think youngest DS was getting much out of it anyway, and he was the only special needs kid in the pack and I just felt very "under the microscope". There were several activities (most, actually) that needed to be adapted, read: I needed to figure out how to adapt them. Too much work for not enough benefit.

I think my "pity party" is that DH works 2nd shift, so I am playing single parent for the whole thing. I don't know. Even on the rare occasions when he's home, homework is not his specialty. I have much more patience. He's good at processing baths and giving out meds. Supervising math homework, not so much.

And it's such a hassle to get the kids packed up and into the car! I try to line up doctor appts and such directly after school so we don't go home first. The kids are way squirrelly at that point. But going home, then trying to get back out the door again... awful. DS's friend was over yesterday for a short while, and then we all had to leave, well the friend had his shoes on and was in our back yard in like 6 seconds. I thought "wow, that must be how kids act!" In the meantime, oldest DS can't remember where he left his shoes, youngest DS can't find the sleeve of his coat, both of them are suddenly thirsty and asking me if we can stop at Arby's...

You know, when I was younger, Before Children, I was chronically early to everything. Almost annoyingly early. Like I'd be the one helping you set up the party because I got there 1/2 hour before you were expecting anyone. 15 minutes early for doctor appointments. The word "late" was just not in my vocabulary, I think it's a Virgo thing. Now, I have all our clocks set 10 minutes fast, and we're still late. DS's pull-out before school, on a daily basis we are peeling in sideways at 30 seconds before 8:00 and telling him to boogie.

 

[mechurchlady]

Becky, you should design rides for Disney. The Late for School Ride would have everyone being rushed into the cars and zoom away we go. The car has peeling rubber sound and it skids out a drive way and knocks over the mail box. Heading left up a street the car short cuts through a puddle while dodging traffic. Sharp left through a car wash and over a curbe then through an alley with a bunch of rats and cats then the ride ends with a sliding spin into the loading dock. Bell rings as people get off.

What you think Becky, lol. With mom I am now always late and it is the stress and her that brings out the SID and other issues.

Big Hugs and snugs everyone
And coffee
Laurie

 

[DisDreaminMom]

I agree Mechurchlady and Bookwormde about the inappropriateness of Debbie Allen for a 1st grade boy. However, Principal, DS's teacher, and other bigwigs are AA (african american) and I am so scared of making them mad. They could make my life extremely difficult and I have seen how things go for boat rockers in the public school system. They sent home a booklet on BO that made my skin crawl. It talked about important AA's in politics and no mention of Condi Rice. What, she's stuck on Uncle Tom's Cabin? It's a very politically correct, PC town I live in. Who is feeling intimidated now? "Rational" left the building back during the election cycle. I call saying I don't want son being Debbie Allen. Why? Am I homophobic, sexist, racist, dancist, Fameist?

I figured it out. I'll give DS a cane and let him wear DD's ballet shoes and a criscross sweater and he can bang the floor and tell people to dance better. I showed him a video of a tribute show for Ms. Allen and DS thought it was interesting. Don't say I'm not a team player.

I got a call from the nurse that DS's ear hurt him (he sometimes picks his ear until it bleeds as a nervous habit) and she gave him Tylenol. He must have had a tough day, because he was really agitated when he got home. He listened to his favorite music website (orchestra instruments) and chased his sister for a while and now is passed out in a chair asleep. It's only 5:45pm. Now the bugger will be up until midnight. DS's ideal schedule would include Wednesdays off. He could be fine doing school Mon, Tues, sleep all day Wed, then Thurs and Fri just fine.

We must underestimate how hard it is for them to go through a normal day and keep it all together. I'll say it again. It bears repeating.

Hey mechurchlady, Imagineering called and the want the specs for the Late for School Ride. It look a little like the chase scene from Chicken Little.

 

[DisDreaminMom]

Parallel universe, part B. I used to be always early, then I was late, and now I am early 95% of time. It swung the other way when my DD started dressing and packing for herself. Otherwise we'd be hosed.

My DH is gone a lot, too. I get them up and out and do all homework, etc. He puts them to bed every once in a while. I feel bad asking him to do much. He's tired and his is not the safest job. Being tired is too much of a liability. I used to get miffed about it, but I like eating and paying bills, so I got over it. Plus, he's willing and able to be the heavy in our house (wait 'till your father gets home!) and that is worth so much these days. But when Daddy says GO TO SLEEP, they do.

 

[mechurchlady]

We need to get you to DLR for a nice vacation away from the idiots. I would not care if they called me names as it is wrong to make a young boy play a girl part.

http://www.debbieallendanceacademy.com
That is her bit thing, helping youth dance. It is great but not like the dude who invented the potato chip or the dude who invented the gas mask.

I think the corkscrew roll is a nice touch, lol. We need a good name and make a park for disabled people and also include stuff to teach people what it is like to be disabled world. Sensoryland would have the Sound ride where noises go off and you get wapped up side the head or zapped. The dislexia games where you wear special glasses and try to win prizes but are not seeing right so you miss. the Architect Booth would be for dunking the dudes who just get by with ADA and do not go far enough.

Hugs and Chocolates
Laurie