Any Unschoolers here who ditched that method?

[knitster]

I, again, find it interesting that so many people are up in arms about whether or not someone else's children are going to be adequately prepared to follow a schedule, or function in an office setting or whatever. I don't hear these same people asking the public schools how their kids are going to ever know how to run a home, should the chose to be a SAHM, or how their kids are going to adapt to setting their own schedule when they've been used to someone else doing it for them their entire lives. No, you all just accept that public school is normal and normal = right or normal = best or whatever. You all seem to just being tossing out the fact that some (most?) of the greatest people in history were homeschooled - they didn't sit in a classroom for 8 hours a day and learn how to live life by the ringing of a bell and they managed to do just fine.

To name a few...

John Adams

· John Quincy Adams

· Grover Cleveland

· James Garfield

· William Henry Harrison

· Andrew Jackson

· Thomas Jefferson

· Abraham Lincoln

· James Madison

· Franklin Delano Roosevelt

· Theodore Roosevelt

· John Tyler

· George Washington

· Woodrow Wilson

· Benjamin Franklin

· Alexander Hamilton

· Patrick Henry

· William Penn

· Daniel Webster

· George Washington Carver

· Pierre Curie

· Albert Einstein

· Blaise Pascal

· Booker T. Washington

· Alexander Graham Bell

· Thomas Edison

· Orville and Wilbur Wright

· Hans Christian Anderson

· Margaret Atwood

· Pearl S. Buck

· William F. Buckley, Jr.

· Willa Cather

· Agatha Christie

· Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain)

· Charles Dickens

· Robert Frost

· Alex Haley

· L. Ron Hubbard

· C.S. Lewis

· Beatrix Potter

· George Bernard Shaw

· Walt Whitman

· Laura Ingalls Wilder

· Amos Bronson Alcott - innovative teacher, father of Louisa May Alcott

· Catharine Beecher - co-founder of the Hartford Female Seminary

· Jill Ker Conway - first woman president of Smith College

· Timothy Dwight - President of Yale University

· William Samuel Johnson - President of Columbia College

· Horace Mann - "Father of the American Common School"

· Charlotte Mason - Founder of Charlotte Mason College of Education

· Fred Terman - President of Stanford University

· Frank Vandiver - President of Texas A&M University

· Booker T. Washington - Founder of Tuskegee Institute

· John Witherspoon - President of Princeton University

· Amadeo Giannini - Bank of America’s founder

· Horace Greeley - New York Tribune founder

· Soichiro Honda - creator of the Honda automobile company

· Dr. Orison Swett Marden - founder, Success magazine

· Adolph Ochs - New York Times founder

· Joseph Pulitzer - newspaper publisher; established Pulitzer Prize

· Clara Barton - Started the Red Cross

· Elizabeth Blackwell - first woman in the U.S. to receive a medical degree

· Ansel Adams - Photographer

· Sam Houston - lawyer; first president of the Republic of Texas

· Charles Evans Hughes - jurist; Chief Justice

· Harriet Martineau - first woman sociologist

· Margaret Mead - cultural anthropologist

· John Stuart Mill - Free-market Economist

· Charles Louis Montesquieu - Philosopher

· John Muir - naturalist

· Florence Nightingale - Nurse

· Thomas Paine - political writer during the American Revolution

· Bill Ridell - Newspaperman

· Will Rogers - Humorist

· Herbert Spencer - philosopher, sociologist

· Gloria Steinem - founder and long-time editor of Ms. magazine

· Jason Taylor - plays in the National Football League

· Frank Lloyd Wright - Architect


Famous Homeschool Parents

Will Smith - singer, actor

· Michael Card - singer, songwriter

· Mike Farris - lawyer and co-founder of Home School Legal Defense Association (HSLDA)

· Robert Frost - Pulitzer Prize-winning poet

· Christopher Klicka - attorney and Senior Counsel of Home School Legal Defense Association (HSLDA)

· Len Munsil - attorney and President of The Center for Arizona Policy (CAP)

· Paul Overstreet - musician, songwriter

· Kelly Preston - actress, wife of John Travolta

· Mike Smith - lawyer and co-founder of Home School Legal Defense Association (HSLDA)

· John Travolta - actor, pilot

· Lisa Whelchel - former actress, "The Facts of Life", now a pastor's wife and author

· Darrell Waltrip - NASCAR Racer

· Susan B. Anthony - reformer and women’s rights leader

 

[horseshowmom]

My kids also learned all of that by being part of family, in spite of having gone to public school. You're making assumptions that it's only because you home taught your kids your way that they learned these things and that kids who aren't home schooled won't learn these things. Not true.

No, I think she's disputing assumptions that others are making about homeschoolers that are not true.

 

[tink_lover]

Wow, this thread has taken a turn. Again, let me state that I have a first-hand view of how absolutely awful unschooling is for children. However, I have no problems with true homeschooling - when using a qualified curriculum. I have noticed that on some of the responses, there are issues with there, their and they're as well as an and a. You should not be teaching your children this if you don't know the differences.

 

[knitster]

My kids also learned all of that by being part of family, in spite of having gone to public school. You're making assumptions that it's only because you home taught your kids your way that they learned these things and that kids who aren't home schooled won't learn these things. Not true.

No, I'm not assuming that public schooled kids don't also learn those things, I'm stating that MY kids learned those things in MY home because THEY are homeschooled. I'm not making assumptions of anyone else's kids period.

 

[IndianSummer]

I'm not saying the real world is like a classroom. But, when do kids learn the hard lesson of, routine and the dailies of life? Getting up, going to work, putting your 8-10 hours/day, each week? Its constant, and exhausting. No breaks, no fun field trips. Your employer tells you when to arrive and when you leave. You can't just come and leave as you please. Kids start learning this by going to school...

WHO CARES, if your kid can recite the alphabet backwards, or build a space ship... that doesn't get anyone anywhere.

I have friends who were homeschooled. They did incredibly well in college. Now that we're graduated, their not doing anything. Their work ethic is so poor because they don't like being told what to do, and when. But, I think their parents are to blame on that...

Unschooled kids learn these routines when they have to, which varies from kid to kid, family to family. That may be in the home, at college or school if and when they choose to go, when they get their first job, or do volunteer work, take part in community theatre or orchestra etc.

Money is a huge motivator to learn to accept a new routine. No amount of public schooling prepared me for getting up at 3 am for one job I had, but I had no problem doing it anyway.

Conscerning your unmotivated home schooled friend, they sound unconscientious, but I know tons of schooled people who are that way too, despite the fact that they attended school every day. Go figure.

 

[IndianSummer]

Wow, this thread has taken a turn. Again, let me state that I have a first-hand view of how absolutely awful unschooling is for children. However, I have no problems with true homeschooling - when using a qualified curriculum. I have noticed that on some of the responses, there are issues with there, their and they're as well as an and a. You should not be teaching your children this if you don't know the differences.

...because teachers never make typos or mistakes? Lol!

 

[horseshowmom]

Wow, this thread has taken a turn. Again, let me state that I have a first-hand view of how absolutely awful unschooling is for children. However, I have no problems with true homeschooling - when using a qualified curriculum. I have noticed that on some of the responses, there are issues with there, their and they're as well as an and a. You should not be teaching your children this if you don't know the differences.

Most people post quickly and probably don't proof their responses. Typos can happen to anyone.

 

[knitster]

Wow, this thread has taken a turn. Again, let me state that I have a first-hand view of how absolutely awful unschooling is for children. However, I have no problems with true homeschooling - when using a qualified curriculum. I have noticed that on some of the responses, there are issues with there, their and they're as well as an and a. You should not be teaching your children this if you don't know the differences.

If you're referring to me, I've already posted stating that I'm responding via my iPad and to please excuse typos and brevity. I don't know if you've ever typed on an iPad, but it is quite the chore and one is bound to make a mistake while doing so - especially with the rapid fire pace of this conversation.

I can assure you, however, that I know the difference between their, there, and they're - their showing ownership, there being a place or position, and they're a contraction of they and are. I also know when to use 'a' vs. 'an' - The baby sat in a high chair and ate an olive. Happy?

Now do we get to start picking apart the egregious grammar mistakes and misspellings of all the public school defenders?

 

[DisneyLoverUSA]

Most people post quickly and probably don't proof their responses. Typos can happen to anyone.

Misuse of the words there, their and they're is usually not a typo, it is a misuse of the word. A typo would be to type thy're and leave out a letter, etc.

As for the quality of education kids get when they are homeschooled...I know from homeschooling my own kids that the curriculum we used for 4th grade was teaching things that they were not yet teaching in 6th grade in the public school. So if you use the right curriculum you certainly can give your child a good education.

Some kids don't do well in structured environments and in those situations homeschooling is a better choice. Especially in autistic or ADHD kids.

But I still think there should be some regulation or oversight of HS'ing by the school districts your child would normally go to. There needs to be some accountability so that those ppl who take their kid out of school claiming they are going to homeschool their kids and then don't, like OP's friend, will have someone to answer to.

I don't think mandatory testing is the answer. I never made my kids take the tests that came with our curriculum because it was basically just regurgitating what we had just learned. That's not a true test of what the kid knows. That's just a kid reciting something they remember from recent learning.

But as for the OP's friend. Someone should care about those kids enough to turn her in. FORCE that husband to stand up and do something to educate his kids or he can lose them too. If both parents choose to neglect the kids then they should both pay the consequences. And for the PP who stated learning to read at 9 to 11 is a standard age for unschooling, you just made a very good point as to why unschooling is a crock of crap when it comes to true education. Letting a kid learn IF THEY WANT TO about whatever they want to , or NOT if they don't want to, is doing a big disservice to the kids. And RADICAL UNSCHOOLING is even worse. That's not just NOT educating your kids, that NOT parenting at all. That's letting your children run the house and do as they please. That's an even more disturbing situation that OP's friend is in right now. I don't really feel very sorry for the dad. What kind of man will KNOW his kids can't read and DO NOTHING about it? Sounds like 2 big old parenting FAILS IMO.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Wow, this thread has taken a turn. Again, let me state that I have a first-hand view of how absolutely awful unschooling is for children. However, I have no problems with true homeschooling - when using a qualified curriculum. I have noticed that on some of the responses, there are issues with there, their and they're as well as an and a. You should not be teaching your children this if you don't know the differences.

I make homonym typos quite a bit. I am quite sure we all know the difference. Sometimes I catch them and sometimes I don't.

It makes me giggle though that people assume that it isn't possible to make typos with those words. It irritates me to no end when I make the typos.

I have no idea if they were in my posts, but I did well academically and do know the difference. But sometimes my brain moves faster than I can type and my fingers just throw any homonym in there.

But when one has to get persnickety regarding grammar on any thread, even one regarding education, it just makes them come across as pretentious when they fail to recognize how it could be a typo and not a lack of knowledge.

And I am terrible at commas...so have fun pointing out those errors.

 

[knitster]

Misuse of the words there, their and they're is usually not a typo, it is a misuse of the word. A typo would be to type thy're and leave out a letter, etc.

I beg to differ. I make there, their, they're typos all the time. My brain moves faster than my fingers and my fingers stay on auto pilot and it happens, even though I'm a total grammar nazi. I did it today, in fact, while IM'ing with my mom and she (jokingly) told me that I should ask my 5th grader for some English lessons.

 

[IndianSummer]

I make homonym typos quite a bit. I am quite sure we all know the difference. Sometimes I catch them and sometimes I don't.

It makes me giggle though that people assume that it isn't possible to make typos with those words. It irritates me to no end when I make the typos.

I have no idea if they were in my posts, but I did well academically and do know the difference. But sometimes my brain moves faster than I can type and my fingers just throw any homonym in there.

But when one has to get persnickety regarding grammar on any thread, even one regarding education, it just makes them come across as pretentious when they fail to recognize how it could be a typo and not a lack of knowledge.

And I am terrible at commas...so have fun pointing out those errors.

Yep, I do this too. And yes, I also know the difference. I am the a/an offender I saw it, but it's a pita to correct typos on the iPad, and I knew that you all would kwim and be polite enough to overlook it.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

DisneyloverUSA: it is a homonym typo. I make them and usually catch and correct them.

But in case you doubt:

They're: Contraction of There and Are. Use: They're going to Disney.
Their: Possessive, Plural. Use: They are going to enjoy their trip to Disney.
There: not sure of the "term" but the Use: Look over there! OR. There will be lots of fun things to do at Disney.

But if you will discredit someone for a typo--I hope you hold the public school system to the same standard.

 

[horseshowmom]

Misuse of the words there, their and they're is usually not a typo, it is a misuse of the word. A typo would be to type thy're and leave out a letter, etc.

I must respectfully disagree. I have two degrees, numerous certifications, and an administrator's license. When I worked as an administrator in our district's central office, I was the one other employees asked about grammar issues. I find that it is not uncommon for me to do that very thing.

I make homonym typos quite a bit. I am quite sure we all know the difference. Sometimes I catch them and sometimes I don't.

I have no idea if they were in my posts, but I did well academically and do know the difference. But sometimes my brain moves faster than I can type and my fingers just throw any homonym in there.

And I am terrible at commas...so have fun pointing out those errors.

Bolded ^ +1

 

[NEVERENOUGHWDW]

I mean--if your kid in public school has an A in a class, how do you really know what they are learning? The report card is meaningless as to course content.

I would think grades are certainly a strong indicator of how your child is doing in an academic arena with their peers.
If a child has a low grade it can certainly raise a flag that either their having trouble with academics, emotional or psychological issues and they can then be addressed.

I would think we could all say sometimes parents are best at keeping their head in the sand.
I believe it does take a village.

 

[tink_lover]

I'm typing on an iPad and do understand those occasional errors. Their, there and they're would not be typos that you can make the iPad excuse on. Those would be you don't know the difference. I am not attacking anyone here. Again, I'm relating to my own personal experience and can vividly recall my family member giving my mom a Snapfish book where the words no one were consistently written as knowone. She should not be teaching her children because SHE doesn't know the difference.

 

[IndianSummer]

Misuse of the words there, their and they're is usually not a typo, it is a misuse of the word. A typo would be to type thy're and leave out a letter, etc.

As for the quality of education kids get when they are homeschooled...I know from homeschooling my own kids that the curriculum we used for 4th grade was teaching things that they were not yet teaching in 6th grade in the public school. So if you use the right curriculum you certainly can give your child a good education.

Some kids don't do well in structured environments and in those situations homeschooling is a better choice. Especially in autistic or ADHD kids.

But I still think there should be some regulation or oversight of HS'ing by the school districts your child would normally go to. There needs to be some accountability so that those ppl who take their kid out of school claiming they are going to homeschool their kids and then don't, like OP's friend, will have someone to answer to.

I don't think mandatory testing is the answer. I never made my kids take the tests that came with our curriculum because it was basically just regurgitating what we had just learned. That's not a true test of what the kid knows. That's just a kid reciting something they remember from recent learning.

But as for the OP's friend. Someone should care about those kids enough to turn her in. FORCE that husband to stand up and do something to educate his kids or he can lose them too. If both parents choose to neglect the kids then they should both pay the consequences. And for the PP who stated learning to read at 9 to 11 is a standard age for unschooling, you just made a very good point as to why unschooling is a crock of crap when it comes to true education. Letting a kid learn IF THEY WANT TO about whatever they want to , or NOT if they don't want to, is doing a big disservice to the kids. And RADICAL UNSCHOOLING is even worse. That's not just NOT educating your kids, that NOT parenting at all. That's letting your children run the house and do as they please. That's an even more disturbing situation that OP's friend is in right now. I don't really feel very sorry for the dad. What kind of man will KNOW his kids can't read and DO NOTHING about it? Sounds like 2 big old parenting FAILS IMO.

Just to clarify, I don't suggest anyone allow their children to remain illiterate, just learn when they're ready. For some kids, yes, that means 9-11. It's much easier to teach a motivated older kid to read than a 5-6 year old who isn't ready yet, from what I hear. (mine learned to read at 1,2 and 5, so I'm only going by what I've seen from some other unschoolers, as well as schooled kids). The point is, I don't think anyone, given a positive, nurturing environment would choose not to learn to read at all, people aren't wired that way. Why do they need to learn to read before this if they choose not too and they aren't in the system? It's necessary for kids in the system to learn to read and write as early as possible because writing is an efficient tool in evaluating 30 kids at once. At home, a nice skill to have, but not necessary that early. But honestly the pressure on some ps kids does greater disservice than good.

And as far as turning the parents in to authorities, I find this view extreme. Unschooling is not like physical abuse or neglect. The mom clearly goes to great lengths to provide educational opportunities for her kids, they may not mirror the ps agenda, but the kids are not stagnating, they are learning. Reading will come in this environment.

 

[DisneyLoverUSA]

You can disagree all day long. If I misused the words I would probably disagree too. A TYPO is when you mistype a letter, forget to type a letter or misspell a word. Placing there in place of their or their in place of they're is not a typo. If your brain is moving faster than your fingers that just means you typed what your brain was thinking at the time, which was the wrong word. If I say "My friends are over their" That is not a TYPO by ANY definition. That is misuse of a word.

 

[DisneyLoverUSA]

Just to clarify, I don't suggest anyone allow their children to remain illiterate, just learn when they're ready. For some kids, yes, that means 9-11. It's much easier to teach a motivated older kid to read than a 5-6 year old who isn't ready yet, from what I hear. (mine learned to read at 1,2 and 5, so I'm only going by what I've seen from some other unschoolers, as well as schooled kids). The point is, I don't think anyone, given a positive, nurturing environment would choose not to learn to read at all, people aren't wired that way. Why do they need to learn to read before this if they choose not too and they aren't in the system? It's necessary for kids in the system to learn to read and write as early as possible because writing is an efficient tool in evaluating 30 kids at once. At home, a nice skill to have, but not necessary that early. But honestly the pressure on some ps kids does greater disservice than good.

There are numerous reasons why a child should learn to read before they are 11. The main one being, what if that MOTHER that is UNSCHOOLING those kids gets hit by a bus and there is nobody else in the family who can stay home and NOT teach them anything. Then they have to be put back into the regular school system. When that 11 year old cannot read and has to go in the first grade what kind of trauma do you think that is going to do to that kid mentally when they are 5 years older than every other kid in the class? You always have to think ahead, about the what ifs in life. Plan for every possible bend in the road.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I would think grades are certainly a strong indicator of how your child is doing in an academic arena with their peers.
If a child has a low grade it can certainly raise a flag that either their having trouble with academics, emotional or psychological issues and they can then be addressed.

I would think we could all say sometimes parents are best at keeping their head in the sand.
I believe it does take a village.

It doesn't tell you if they learned though.

My children do take tests and I can tell when they don't learn or haven't studied. Instant feedback on whether or not they got their times tables or understood the science chapter on flower anatomy.
Then of they didn't get it, we go over it again.

If a child gets a C on their report card from school, how would your know where they were weak. While they can study better for future grades on future lessons, the student will still not have understood aspects of prior lessons that were covered.

So in terms of what that child has learned, it is somewhat meaningless until you find out.

Homeschool parents already know that info.

This does not take into account dishonesty, of course, which is still quite possible in traditional school setting.