Any Unschoolers here who ditched that method?

[horseshowmom]

And in addition to knowing all the 'normal' things that 'normal' kids know, my kid is also learning more about how to build and work a computer than most of his public schooled counter parts. At the age of 10, he's on our mega church's tech team running sound and computers because he has the free time to be able to really dig into that stuff with his IT geek dad when he's done with his regular school work (by noon on most days).

Absolutely. Mine volunteered each year from the time she was 10 at the county fair in the exhibits building which required logging in entries and organizing displays. The woman in charge of it called every year to make sure my daughter could help because she did such a good job. She's the only 4-H member from our state to actually coach a state team as a teenager (they then went on to compete at the national level, and she had to organize practices and coordinate scheduling). These are just a couple of examples.

 

[pigletgirl]

Just like real life. Do it when you want. No schedule, no one to answer to, no testing.

When do you start teaching schedules and deadlines?

Exactly!!!! When do your kids learn how the real world is?

Standardized tests aren't perfect, but how can we monitor what your children are learning?

I'm not saying kids who are homeschooled, dont have that, BUT when you take accountability for your childrens education and what they're learning?

 

[knitster]

Oh, I know it's possible. With very few exceptions, I don't believe it's a proper education. That opinion won't change.

All the national spelling bee and geography bee winners seem to be homeschooled.

Seeing these two quotes together cracks me up. On the one hand, people can plainly see that homeschoolers are sweeping spelling and geography bees nation wide and colleges and universities are actively pursuing homeschool graduates to attend their schools, but on the other hand, some people just can.not. fathom that one can get a quality education without the government spoon feeding it to you. smh

I wonder what the homeschooled founders of our government would think about that...

And, Aisling, I know you didn't have any intentions of this thread turning into a homeschool bashing session. It is clear that you are a supportive, concerned friend who only wants the best for those kids.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

My point was that many children in those countries receive no education. . .I guess they are "unschooled" and their literacy rates are some of the lowest in the world. Most people that live in Somalia or Afghanistan are uneducated and live in abject poverty. Whether you care or not is up to you.

I would say this.

Unschooling and uneducated are not synonymous by those who are actually homeschooling via unschooling.

Those in Somalia and Afghanistan are not homeschooling nor are they unschooling. They are simply not being educated as happens in areas of poverty. Those who don't have money cannot pay for an education.

That is one of the cool things about our country. We made education available to all. That is not something that is done in 3rd world countries as there simply is not money for it.

The problem in this country with this free mandated education is that for a very long while it was to make sure kids would be getting an education and it turned into some idea that unless the government provided it, they could not trust that a child would receive an education. IIRC parochial schools were once illegal and homeschool of course was once illegal. They had to use the first amendment to gain their right to oversee the education of students whose parents desired those routes. (And by illegal--kids not in public school were considered truant if they weren't in the public school but instead in a private school or learning at home.)

We have gone from one extreme to another. We forget that at one time, children did learn without the aid of a school room. Schools were created to make sure children had access who otherwise would not so that they would have a fair shot at an education to better themselves in life. And that was not a bad thing. We have gone to the other extreme to believe that no child can get an education if not for traditional school. That IS a bad thing to believe.

We read a book last year about Nathanial Bowditch. Awesome book and that kid was mostly self taught and he did some amazing things! (He did want to go to school, but life's circumstances prevented that and he just decided he would do stuff on his own.)

 

[IndianSummer]

My point was that many children in those countries receive no education. . .I guess they are "unschooled" and their literacy rates are some of the lowest in the world. Most people that live in Somalia or Afghanistan are uneducated and live in abject poverty. Whether you care or not is up to you.

There is a huge difference between unschooling and living in a abject poverty with no opportunity or resources for learning basic literacy (among other things). I unschool my children and my oldest two are literate and the youngest (5) is learning to read now. My 5y/o isn't learning to read because I'm making her, she just decided she wanted to recently because she loves books and wants to be competent in this area like the rest of us in the family are. A child in abject poverty is probably more preoccupied with being safe and dry and warm and fed. Completely different thing.

 

[horseshowmom]

My point was that many children in those countries receive no education. . .I guess they are "unschooled" and their literacy rates are some of the lowest in the world. Most people that live in Somalia or Afghanistan are uneducated and live in abject poverty. Whether you care or not is up to you.

While I agree with you that the OP's friend is not properly educating her children, she probably would view this as comparing apples and oranges. She sees herself as providing numerous and continuous educational opportunities that will eventually lead to a complete education for her children while the children in the countries you mentioned often have no access to education (or limited resources at best). I don't agree with her, but that would probably be her response.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Oh, I know it's possible. With very few exceptions, I don't believe it's a proper education. That opinion won't change.

Last thing ~ Aisling, I don't know if you're still reading or not, but your friend is harming her children, even though she doesn't believe she is. Her refusal to parent her children will only end up detrimental to them, and cause many, many issues for them in the future, in addition to the ones they already have. I hope if she does read this thread, the possibility of being reported to the authorities will open her eyes.

Okay--statistics disagree with you--but feel free to have your opinion.

I do agree with your comments to Aisling.

 

[skater]

Just like real life. Do it when you want. No schedule, no one to answer to, no testing.

When do you start teaching schedules and deadlines?

I actually think homeschooling often mimics real life. In real jobs, workers are often interrupted or a schedule needs to be altered to deal with new issues and problems. Being flexible is not the same as not having any schedules or deadlines. You seem to be very against all homeschooling - not just unschooling. Is this true or have I read you wrong?

 

[knitster]

I actually think homeschooling often mimics real life. In real jobs, workers are often interrupted or a schedule needs to be altered to deal with new issues and problems. Being flexible is not the same as not having any schedules or deadlines.

Yep. it mimics real life, because it *is* real life! Unless, of course, there is some aspect of real life that I'm unaware of that consists of sitting in a room of people your exact same age and similar socioeconomic status while you all do the same exact thing all day long.

You seem to be very against all homeschooling - not just unschooling. Is this true or have I read you wrong?

If you've read her wrong, then so have I.

 

[pigletgirl]

I actually think homeschooling often mimics real life. In real jobs, workers are often interrupted or a schedule needs to be altered to deal with new issues and problems. Being flexible is not the same as not having any schedules or deadlines. You seem to be very against all homeschooling - not just unschooling. Is this true or have I read you wrong?

Life isn't always flexible, and in fact is it ever really.... Plus as a homeschooling parent you have the opportunity to put deadlines and stuff in place.....

 

[skater]

Exactly!!!! When do your kids learn how the real world is?

Standardized tests aren't perfect, but how can we monitor what your children are learning?

I'm not saying kids who are homeschooled, dont have that, BUT when you take accountability for your childrens education and what they're learning?

This real world argument just doesn't play out in real life.

When in the real world (aside from public school) are you placed all day in a room with people your exact same age? Many if not most homeschooled kids that I know can hold conversations with people of all ages. And homeschooled teenagers actually look me in the eyes when I talk with them - to me, that's a real nice social skill.

Homeschooled kids tend to want to learn. I teach high school co-op classes and its a joy to teach kids that actually are excited about learning. Kids that participate in class - not to get a good greade, but because they are curious. Isn't that what we want for our kids in the real world?

My kids can fit in socially in lots of situations. They get along with younger kids, older kids, adults, the elderly, etc. They know how to volunteer, work, sit in a class, dress appropriately for a job interview, call a coach/teacher/boss if they have a question, etc. They are fine in the real world.

And, we don't always need the government to provide accountability. Parents who love their children want them to do well and are accountable to themselves. Again, there are a few "bad" homeschoolers, but that's the exception, not the rule. I don't need a test to tell me where my kids excel and where they need help.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Exactly!!!! When do your kids learn how the real world is?

Standardized tests aren't perfect, but how can we monitor what your children are learning?

I'm not saying kids who are homeschooled, dont have that, BUT when you take accountability for your childrens education and what they're learning?

Since all other responses have not satisified this repeated inquiry, I will provide an answer in the form of a question....


How can you NOT monitor what your homeschooled child is learning?

Anectdotal responses of someone you know doesn't count--how do you NOT monitor what YOUR homeschooled child is learning? If you don't homeschool--what if you did, what you have to do to not know what it is they are learning and whether or not they are learning it?

I mean--if your kid in public school has an A in a class, how do you really know what they are learning? The report card is meaningless as to course content.

 

[Green Tea]

If mom really really truly is going to cling to the misguided concept that teaching is detrimental, then dad needs to grow a pair and get the kids enrolled in school or spend every night after work teaching his children. Mom is doing nothing but harm and dad is letting it happen. He needs to step up and advocate for the children.

 

[skater]

Life isn't always flexible, and in fact is it ever really.... Plus as a homeschooling parent you have the opportunity to put deadlines and stuff in place.....

Life isn't always flexible, but you often have to be flexible to survive in life .

 

[pigletgirl]

This real world argument just doesn't play out in real life.

When in the real world (aside from public school) are you placed all day in a room with people your exact same age? Many if not most homeschooled kids that I know can hold conversations with people of all ages. And homeschooled teenagers actually look me in the eyes when I talk with them - to me, that's a real nice social skill.

Homeschooled kids tend to want to learn. I teach high school co-op classes and its a joy to teach kids that actually are excited about learning. Kids that participate in class - not to get a good greade, but because they are curious. Isn't that what we want for our kids in the real world?

My kids can fit in socially in lots of situations. They get along with younger kids, older kids, adults, the elderly, etc. They know how to volunteer, work, sit in a class, dress appropriately for a job interview, call a coach/teacher/boss if they have a question, etc. They are fine in the real world.

And, we don't always need the government to provide accountability. Parents who love their children want them to do well and are accountable to themselves. Again, there are a few "bad" homeschoolers, but that's the exception, not the rule. I don't need a test to tell me where my kids excel and where they need help.

I'm not saying the real world is like a classroom. But, when do kids learn the hard lesson of, routine and the dailies of life? Getting up, going to work, putting your 8-10 hours/day, each week? Its constant, and exhausting. No breaks, no fun field trips. Your employer tells you when to arrive and when you leave. You can't just come and leave as you please. Kids start learning this by going to school...

WHO CARES, if your kid can recite the alphabet backwards, or build a space ship... that doesn't get anyone anywhere.

I have friends who were homeschooled. They did incredibly well in college. Now that we're graduated, their not doing anything. Their work ethic is so poor because they don't like being told what to do, and when. But, I think their parents are to blame on that...

 

[knitster]

I'm not saying the real world is like a classroom. But, when do kids learn the hard lesson of, routine and the dailies of life? Getting up, going to work, putting your 8-10 hours/day, each week? Its constant, and exhausting. No breaks, no fun field trips. Your employer tells you when to arrive and when you leave. You can't just come and leave as you please. Kids start learning this by going to school...

WHO CARES, if your kid can recite the alphabet backwards, or build a space ship... that doesn't get anyone anywhere.

I have friends who were homeschooled. They did incredibly well in college. Now that we're graduated, their not doing anything. Their work ethic is so poor because they don't like being told what to do, and when. But, I think their parents are to blame on that...

Well...first of all, I am my kid's boss so I tell the what to do, where to be, and when to be there. They have chores, and household responsibilities that they have to accomplish everyday in addition to school.

Secondly, are you saying you didn't have recess and field trips in PS? Interesting.

Lastly, I'm pretty sure the people who are paid to build the space shuttles would beg to differ with your thoughts on the importance of their skills.

 

[knitster]

P.S. Please excuse typos and brevity. I'm on my iPad.

 

[horseshowmom]

I have friends who were homeschooled. They did incredibly well in college. Now that we're graduated, their not doing anything. Their work ethic is so poor because they don't like being told what to do, and when. But, I think their parents are to blame on that...

How did they do so well in college if they didn't like being told what to do?

Regarding work ethic, my daughter graduated in May. Her last year of school involved five work rotations of 8 weeks each with different aspects of her chosen career. Every.single.one of them told her that they would love to hire her if they had an opening and asked her to consider putting in an application. They also commented that she worked harder than anybody they had ever had.

She now works for one of them. In fact, when she heard about the opening she called, and they asked if she could come in that day for an interview (the recruiter was only there one day a week - they were required to have her go through the recruiter first - and that day was the day). She had to tell them she couldn't because she was actually out of town. They made arrangements with the recruiter to come in the next day (which they never do).

Her "interview" immediately followed the recruiter meeting, and she was hired at the end of the interview. The first thing they said to her in the interview was to ask her if they were competing with anybody else to get her. She was told by a secretary that they had NEVER hired anybody that fast (this employer has about 6000+ employees). Her work ethic and abilities are what got her the job. She has had glowing job reviews since being hired.

If you study the statistics, your friends are not representative of the general homeschool population.

ETA: I just thought over people that we knew who homeschooled, and I can't think of anyone who isn't doing well. One girl bought her first house at age 23 (doing well in a great job), and it's a really nice house.

 

[bdcp]

My kids have schedules and deadline every.single.day. They have to be done with math at X time and have their beds made at Y time and have this material mastered and test taken by Z day, etc. But you know what else they know how to do? They know how to cope with a family emergency. They'll know how to function when someday their spouse gets ill and they have to care for him/her. They'll know how to change a diaper, and make a meal, and delegate things, and prioritize. They'll know how to live life the way it happens - sloppy and unpredictable, not dictated by a bell and a fill in the blank test.

My kids also learned all of that by being part of family, in spite of having gone to public school. You're making assumptions that it's only because you home taught your kids your way that they learned these things and that kids who aren't home schooled won't learn these things. Not true.

 

[IndianSummer]

To the OP - it sounds like your friend is an amazing mom, and clearly loves her dks and provides a learning rich environment for them. While her kids may not be where most kids their age are academically, I suspect with all the free time they've had they've developed amazing skills in some subject areas. From what I've observed with other unschoolers, they delve deeply into the things that they love which might not be typical school subjects, but still valuable learning opportunities. I highly doubt they will reach adulthood without the ability to read and write. There will likely be things that come up that will motivate them to learn these things.

If she's not neglectful in other areas of their care, then I highly doubt she's refusing to educate them when they request her help in facilitating their learning.

Kids want to learn. Period. Especially kids that arent forced too. They don't want to be incompetent and when it dawns on her kids that reading is a good idea and a necessary part of life, that will be motivation enough, I suspect. I've seen it over and over again without fail. She doesn't sound lazy and uncaring.Many unschoolers learn to read later than ps kids, 9-11 is an age I hear a lot, when they decide they want to.

Her kids are about to hit an age/stage where academics will probably become a higher priority for them. Kids who've had as much free time as hers have had to play, usually get sick of all that play and start to gravitate towards academics in a way most schooled teens don't. It's not something most people in our society are used to seeing.