Advice welcome dealing with son & his school ***HE'S BEEN MOVED!***

[Mouse House Mama]

MAybe that's her point. He needs something more to be productive and not disrupt the class. It can't be ALL up to the teachers to guide his behavior. He needs either medication or therapy(or both) to help him control his own behavior.

This exactly.

 

[diznygirl]

I don't understand the posters making this out to be solely something that is your problem alone. I totally get that you are asking for help from these teachers, and these teachers are not willing to give it. It sucks when you get stuck with the ones who should have chosen some other line of work. I think you would get further with just talking to the VP and asking for your son to switch teachers. At least he would be able to start off fresh.

 

[torinsmom]

Actually, if he is being disruptive in all his classes(we know definitely in 3), this needs to be addressed differently. I have a child with ADD, but he does not have the hyperactive part. The biggest problem he has is not paying attention, or daydreaming. Fortunately, his ADD does not affect other students.

OTOH, if a child's behavior is constantly disrupting class, something more has to be done. Either the ADHD needs to be calmed by medicine or by behavior modification of some sort. Even though the teachers know this behavior is not willful, it can be exasperating to deal with it every day and also do a good job teaching. I am NOT justifying the teacher calling your son a jerk or the disrespectful way you were treated at the meeting! Just saying you need to think about the big picture.

So, how long has it been since your son was tested? Here in NC, they can be tested every 3 years. If it has been longer than that, request an evaluation in writing. If it has not been three years, you can still have him tested privately. Or you could just ask his doctor to try some medicine. Putting him on meds could make all the difference. If not, just take him off.

Marsha

 

[OceanAnnie]

Actually, if he is being disruptive in all his classes(we know definitely in 3), this needs to be addressed differently. I have a child with ADD, but he does not have the hyperactive part. The biggest problem he has is not paying attention, or daydreaming. Fortunately, his ADD does not affect other students.

OTOH, if a child's behavior is constantly disrupting class, something more has to be done. Either the ADHD needs to be calmed by medicine or by behavior modification of some sort. Even though the teachers know this behavior is not willful, it can be exasperating to deal with it every day and also do a good job teaching. I am NOT justifying the teacher calling your son a jerk or the disrespectful way you were treated at the meeting! Just saying you need to think about the big picture.

So, how long has it been since your son was tested? Here in NC, they can be tested every 3 years. If it has been longer than that, request an evaluation in writing. If it has not been three years, you can still have him tested privately. Or you could just ask his doctor to try some medicine. Putting him on meds could make all the difference. If not, just take him off.

Marsha

I agree with this too. It is time for the big picture approach.

 

[Magic Mom]

I don't understand the posters making this out to be solely something that is your problem alone. I totally get that you are asking for help from these teachers, and these teachers are not willing to give it. It sucks when you get stuck with the ones who should have chosen some other line of work. I think you would get further with just talking to the VP and asking for your son to switch teachers. At least he would be able to start off fresh.

Who said it was all her problem? I think some are just suggesting that the problem can't just be addressed through the teachers actions, but needs to be attacked from all sides; from the teacher, the parents and the student.

The name calling is a whole other issue. That teacher was wrong no matter how frustrated she was. That's obvious. But the OP was about more than just that.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I don't understand the posters making this out to be solely something that is your problem alone. I totally get that you are asking for help from these teachers, and these teachers are not willing to give it. It sucks when you get stuck with the ones who should have chosen some other line of work. I think you would get further with just talking to the VP and asking for your son to switch teachers. At least he would be able to start off fresh.

It is not her problem alone. The teachers gave her the information so the parents can help. From what has been posted they did not look into the information that has been given except to say their son would not be happy about having to take extra classes at a center. The OP also stated that she will not medicate and I understand that. However, does this child have therapy so he can learn coping mechanisms? How can you expect this child to succeed if everyone is blaming everyone else and nobody is giving him the tools to do so? The teacher cannot provide these therapies for him. She has a whole class to teach. If, say the parents were making sure the child had these therapies in place they could then meet with the teacher, discuss the techniques the therapist is working on, put it in the 504 and go from there. It doesn't seem like that is the case here. More than one teacher is having a problem. The child has ADHD. He needs help in learning to cope. A teacher cannot take the whole class and focus on one child. If there is a definite plan in place that everyone is on board with (and not just a cuing system) then it is at least a starting point. Teachers and parents can then come together and let each other know what is working and what isn't working. Just saying "he has adhd!" isn't doing anything for anyone and it isn't an excuse. Let this child succeed. Take the reins.
The teacher shouldn't have called him a name. That was wrong, but I don't think she has given up on the child persay. I think she has given up on the parents because they seem to expect her to do everything (based on what the OP has posted) and they aren't being proactive except to say the teacher won't help them when she did point them to resources to help them. She cannot tutor the whole family! Why didn't they go to the websites and try to work with it? Why didn't they go and look at the center to help the child? Why didn't they hire a tutor? Is this child getting therapy? Is he being taught coping mechnisms?
You cannot just send your kids to school and expect the teacher to do it all.
Again- the teacher should never have said what she said and I would address that with the school.

 

[torinsmom]

I don't understand the posters making this out to be solely something that is your problem alone. I totally get that you are asking for help from these teachers, and these teachers are not willing to give it. It sucks when you get stuck with the ones who should have chosen some other line of work. I think you would get further with just talking to the VP and asking for your son to switch teachers. At least he would be able to start off fresh.

It is not her problem alone, but the teachers cannot make the decision to use medication or do behavior modification for his ADHD or ODD. I taught a kindergartener with those two conditions and every day I went home exhausted and felt like I spent 1/2 my time dealing with that one child. I am a great teacher and have a soft heart, but it made me sad that the other 24 children in my class were getting less than they should be getting because he was so demanding. I certainly don't think I should have chosen some other line of work, just because I wanted to do what was best for ALL my students.

I don't feel like OP's son would start off fresh in another room if the disruptive behavior persists. The new teacher would probably have a hard time as well. Plus, I doubt they can switch the math, SS and the art teacher.

OP, I know this is hard for you. As a teacher and a mom of a child with ADD and LDs, I can see both sides.

Marsha

 

[disneydreamingdebby]

Lori, I had a student a few years ago with extreme ADHD. I would give him playdough to use sometimes; sometimes he would make a paperclip train. Other times, when it wasn't a disruption to his learning, I would send him on an errand.

This child's mom had him on meds and weaned him. She struggled with this decision and allowed him to make it with her. It was a struggle in classrooms, especially in eleventh grade. (The common idea is really, what 11th grader can't sit still and do his work?)

I loved this kid; he was a royal pain in my behind but it wasn't his fault. I tried to come up with ways to help him. I was not always successful, but I did research to help me with ideas. He would have consequences (detentions) for problematic behavior, but it would be after cueing, etc.

I like the idea of asking for math notes. Does she have a webpage (personal) or email that you can ask questions to try to work through the problems? I don't disagree that a tutor would be a good idea (maybe even a student in the school). My concern is that a tutor should be utilized after the teacher has tried to help. The tutor should not be the replacement for the teacher as many seem to be suggesting. NCLB (this is the whole point - what is this teaching doing to make sure that your son isn't left behind?) It isn't a law for kids who are easy to teach. It is for kids who don't have the resources beyond school to help them. (Your son is not one as you are fighting to get him help.)

I would be upset by the art teacher's comments because they seem to identify the behavior one already knows he has. Her job is then to determine how she is going to help him. Maybe had she begun, I have tried X,Y.Z but... then I could follow the logic of someone else's post.

I am amazed how many people are quick to put this back on you and your son. Be it fair or not (and sometimes I am really put off by IEP's and 504's), it is the teacher's responsibility today to help a child monitor himself- meds or not. ( I want to qualify the statement above: I have a student who I am required to make sure that he writes his assignments in his agenda. Okay, so without embarrassing the kid everyday- did you do that? - I simply require everyone to take out an agenda and write the assignments. This is a pain and some kids don't need this or function this way. I don't mandate it for all, but it looks like it.)

Keep it up; hopefully, you will soon be able to report that the teachers have helped you design a plan to meet your son's needs.

 

[diznygirl]

Debby, you sound like a wonderful teacher. Why can't they all be like you?!

 

[polyfan]

Wow, that was quite a long run-on sentence.



it wasn't supposed to be a sentence- just thoughts- geesh!!

 

[torinsmom]

Wow, that was quite a long run-on sentence.





it wasn't supposed to be a sentence- just thoughts- geesh!!

Did you not see the ? I was just out of breath after I read it, LOL.

 

[disneydreamingdebby]

diznygirl, Thanks . I truly LOVE my job. Now, if only I could teach in the middle of the Magic Kingdom. . .

 

[surfgirl]

OP, any updates ?

how did y-day go ?

 

[It'sWDW4me]

Do you know if I can have his 504 revised? Can't I ask that he be taken out of that math class, at least for awhile and taught by resource? Or without an IEP will this request be shot down? Can I request a nonverbal cue to him, without having to shout "strike!" over and over in front of the class?

Let me say that I feel for you, DH, and your wonderful DS. Please know this - I know EXACTLY what you're going through.

My DS13 was diagnosed with ADHD at 3; I very reluctantly tried meds (after trying behavior mod therapy for a year) when he was 4; he started counseling due to his low self-esteem when he was 8 (he still goes every other week); he was also diagnosed with ODD, Aspberger's, & anxiety issues over the years.

As for the meds, it may help to research what ADHD really is - a chemical imbalance that can be controlled. Some people can control it with diet, some can't. ADHD is hereditary (my brother was diagnosed years ago, I truly believe my father had severe ADHD, my ex's brother probably would have been diagnosed but he was in school "back in the day"). DS started on Ritalin when he was 4 but had severe "bounce back" issues about 1/2 hour before the next dosage. Poor kid was worse off during that hour from the previous dose wearing off through the next dose kicking in than if he didn't take meds at all! He then went to Concerta for quite a few years but eventually developed a few tics. Nothing severe - he'd intermittently widen his eyes for no reason as if he were surprised and/or he'd inhale/whistle between words in a sentence. He was then switched to Adderall.

Don't torture yourself or your son over things that are beyond your control. I once had a doctor liken ADD to diabetes - if your son's body couldn't regulate his body sugars, would you give him insulin? If his vision weren't 20/20 would you tell him to suck it up and make his eyes "work" better or would you get him glasses? These analogies really helped me get over myself and my fear of meds.

As for school - is this your son's first year in middle school/junior high? Our district does the K-4; 5-8; 9-12 groupings. When my son transitioned from the elementary to the middle school, he had such horrendous anxiety issues. He was late every day to homeroom because he couldn't open his locker because he was too nervous about being late so he either couldn't remember his combination or he'd scoot right past one of the numbers. Repeated detentions for tardiness only made the problem worse. His ODD got worse. Teachers and I would get the "I won't do it and I don't care" attitude. It was so hearbreaking watching this very intelligent, sweet boy being devoured by his anxiety and low self-esteem. Buspar (and time) eventually helped.

By mid-October of his 5th grade year, I was called in to meet with his teaching team at least 4 times (our school year starts the day after Labor Day) due to his behavior problems - tests getting ripped, in-school work not being completed, homework not being done or, if it was done, not being turned in. Finally, I requested an IEP evaluation and he's now getting the help he needs. No learning disability has been diagnosed, just issues relating to ADD - organization, coping with frustration, restlessness. His IEP provides him some measures of relief such as:
non-verbal cues - his teacher, while walking around the room, will tap on Brandon's desk if he seems to be drifting to help him focus
escape - he is in regular classes but he is allowed to excuse himself to the emotional support room whenever he feels he needs to escape
verbal answers - when an answer to a homework or test question requires more than a two sentence answer, he is allowed to dictate his answer to his emotional support teacher or to me. This has helped immensely with reports.
organizational assistance - the teacher and/or emotional support aid makes sure that homework assignments, projects, and tests are noted in his daily agenda (daily planner) and that he's set up to take the right books home or to class

He also has a daily report that comes home for me to sign so that I can see what kind of day and week he's had. This has been very helpful in at-home discipline/rewards. Since this post is already so long, I'll save that for another time. Please feel free to PM me if you'd like to chat.

I wish I could say that the meds and the IEP plan have turned my poor DS's school experience into a wondrous, happy time but, alas, there is still work to be done. But you're not the only one going through this.

Many, many and being sent to you, your DH, and especially to your DS! I hope something I wrote helps in some way!

 

[Rora]

Lori- just wanted to stop by to see if there was an update and give you my support! Hang in there!

 

[Lorix2]

Let me say that I feel for you, DH, and your wonderful DS. Please know this - I know EXACTLY what you're going through.

My DS13 was diagnosed with ADHD at 3; I very reluctantly tried meds (after trying behavior mod therapy for a year) when he was 4; he started counseling due to his low self-esteem when he was 8 (he still goes every other week); he was also diagnosed with ODD, Aspberger's, & anxiety issues over the years.

As for the meds, it may help to research what ADHD really is - a chemical imbalance that can be controlled. Some people can control it with diet, some can't. ADHD is hereditary (my brother was diagnosed years ago, I truly believe my father had severe ADHD, my ex's brother probably would have been diagnosed but he was in school "back in the day"). DS started on Ritalin when he was 4 but had severe "bounce back" issues about 1/2 hour before the next dosage. Poor kid was worse off during that hour from the previous dose wearing off through the next dose kicking in than if he didn't take meds at all! He then went to Concerta for quite a few years but eventually developed a few tics. Nothing severe - he'd intermittently widen his eyes for no reason as if he were surprised and/or he'd inhale/whistle between words in a sentence. He was then switched to Adderall.

Don't torture yourself or your son over things that are beyond your control. I once had a doctor liken ADD to diabetes - if your son's body couldn't regulate his body sugars, would you give him insulin? If his vision weren't 20/20 would you tell him to suck it up and make his eyes "work" better or would you get him glasses? These analogies really helped me get over myself and my fear of meds.

As for school - is this your son's first year in middle school/junior high? Our district does the K-4; 5-8; 9-12 groupings. When my son transitioned from the elementary to the middle school, he had such horrendous anxiety issues. He was late every day to homeroom because he couldn't open his locker because he was too nervous about being late so he either couldn't remember his combination or he'd scoot right past one of the numbers. Repeated detentions for tardiness only made the problem worse. His ODD got worse. Teachers and I would get the "I won't do it and I don't care" attitude. It was so hearbreaking watching this very intelligent, sweet boy being devoured by his anxiety and low self-esteem. Buspar (and time) eventually helped.

By mid-October of his 5th grade year, I was called in to meet with his teaching team at least 4 times (our school year starts the day after Labor Day) due to his behavior problems - tests getting ripped, in-school work not being completed, homework not being done or, if it was done, not being turned in. Finally, I requested an IEP evaluation and he's now getting the help he needs. No learning disability has been diagnosed, just issues relating to ADD - organization, coping with frustration, restlessness. His IEP provides him some measures of relief such as:
non-verbal cues - his teacher, while walking around the room, will tap on Brandon's desk if he seems to be drifting to help him focus
escape - he is in regular classes but he is allowed to excuse himself to the emotional support room whenever he feels he needs to escape
verbal answers - when an answer to a homework or test question requires more than a two sentence answer, he is allowed to dictate his answer to his emotional support teacher or to me. This has helped immensely with reports.
organizational assistance - the teacher and/or emotional support aid makes sure that homework assignments, projects, and tests are noted in his daily agenda (daily planner) and that he's set up to take the right books home or to class

He also has a daily report that comes home for me to sign so that I can see what kind of day and week he's had. This has been very helpful in at-home discipline/rewards. Since this post is already so long, I'll save that for another time. Please feel free to PM me if you'd like to chat.

I wish I could say that the meds and the IEP plan have turned my poor DS's school experience into a wondrous, happy time but, alas, there is still work to be done. But you're not the only one going through this.

Many, many and being sent to you, your DH, and especially to your DS! I hope something I wrote helps in some way!

I can relate to so much in your post, especially the ODD. Thank you also for coming on to my thread and sharing your experiences with us. My son school is 6th thru 8th. My fear of meds is seeing side effects like what you mentioned with your son. I'm afraid I'd panic and feel instant guilt for giving the meds to him. You are all so right that I would treat him without any doubts if he had diabetes, needed glasses, god forbid something more serious and it's NOT about embarassment or shame for his disorder at all - I really cannot explain my fear that will sound logical

Thank you too for your support and advice.

 

[torinsmom]

OP, from what I have been told, ADD is a result of an imbalance of dopamine in the brain. Kids with ADD WILL seek out stimulation, and later in life that could mean smoking, pot, or other drugs. The prescription stimulants do the same thing, but are monitored by a dr. Yes, there could be side effects, but they are usually worked through easily. If your son had an infection, wouldn't you give him the antibiotics and not worry about side effects until if and when they happened? I just think that one day you might wish you had at least tried medication. It could make your son a lot more successful, which is what everyone would love to see.

You may find this site interesting http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/misunderstoodminds/

I just watched the DVD and the case stories from that are on the site, plus information to help kids deal with problems in behavior and/or academics.

Marsha

 

[Lorix2]

**********UPDATE********************

Hello my DIS friends,

I wanted to write yesterday, but I was just emotionally spent and my thoughts not organized and tonight I'm sorry, I still feel the same way.

Ok...yesterday morning the principal agreed to meet with DH and I.

I have to just say that I like this man and feels he's firm, but fair and I know he feels the right to defend his teachers to some degree.

I asked him if my son could get help in the resource room with sp.ed. teachers with a lower student/teacher ratio to catch him up, regain some confidence and understanding and he said no because he didn't think that was an issue and that those classes are growing just as big as the other ones. I said, we'll, with an IEP would that be possible? He said yes.

I asked if we could revise the 504 to include non verbal cues which were not being utilized, but he says he has personally seen this one particular teacher demonstrating non verbalization and probably has with my son too. I was thinking maybe she knew your were observing her....but I won't say that aloud.

He encouraged me to make a meeting with the 504 team and that he likes to sit in on them whenever possible. I have no problem with that.

I told him that we had an appt with our pediatrician on 10/28 to discuss medicating my son. My throat started to close and I was feeling defeated and lost all train of thought, but regained my composure. His pedi is wonderful. She herself has a son with ADD and many, many times would take me aside to talk about how I was and she experiences the same things I do and her son did/does many of the oppositional things and expresses the frustrations, etc..and mentioned medication and therapy to me every year at annual exam. I left a message for her yesterday morning in she called me back within an hour and we discussed this whole situation as briefly as I could and told her we were in crisis mode and she agreed. She only works Mon & Tues and next week was the earliest, but if he said he wanted to die again, to get him to the ER. Did I mention he said that to me??

The principal told us that in his 20+ years of teaching and in his current position that he has seen many, many positive turn around for kids like my son after the right meds and it might take a one or a few before we find the right one and can appreciate our reluctantcy to give them to him. He says he thinks my son is a great kid and that Dylan treats him with respect and when Dylan gets sent to him which has been more often than I knew, he discusses the matter with him and then will often send him on errands to let him "blow off some steam".

He asked us to update him after our pedi appt and see what she has to say and offer also.

I struggled with the getting the "jerk" comment out, because I really felt he'd feel I was bitter or resentful somehow with her....but I started with what led up to it, that he probably was doing whatever it was, but we both felt in our gut that it was said and to clarify - I got it wrong - both kids allege that she said to another teacher after she saw her telling my son to slow down, "isn't he a jerk?" But regardless of it happened, this was inexcusable. He asked me for the boys name (I had permission from him and his mom to give it) and the other teacher involved. I told him I wanted an apology to my son and he agreed. I told him I just had to let him know and that now, I'm done with it.

I told him that one teacher said at our previous meeting when he wasn't there that she said she's ready to take him out of her class and when I asked where he'd go from there? Fail? She said yes. He said to me "well, that's not the direction I'm seeing and I'm the one who decides who gets taken out of a classroom".

He also felt having his desk and chair face the wall so he has to turn completely around to see the board and back again (since Sept) to write notes was not acceptable and we asked that be addressed right away. He said he was going to up to his floor and see that for himself for sure.

My next step is finding a counselor for him for coping skills.

I don't feel relieved really, because I know the medicine alone will not change everything and I had a frustrating time myself trying to match up the practice skills workbook chapters/lessons on the math website, was able to navigate it as he was complaining about his other homework. More importantly to me, can the teachers forgive or look past his behavior and start fresh? Will they be willing? I don't know.

He did not mention a revaluation and I did not ask for it - yet. If he's at average other than for behavior, what I am fighting for? I'm still so undecided.

I will say that DH and I really spoke to Dylan a few times over the weekend about trying to use some self control and that if he really tried, the teachers would see it and their attitude toward him would be more positive.

He said his day was fine yesterday and today (substitute for one teacher).

He never told me his desk was turned around and I haven't asked because he doesn't know we were at the school yet. I don't want him to think the "jerk" comment was our reason for going to the school.

Also, the boy has not told Dylan that he was asked by the principal about that leading me to think two things: 1) he asked the teacher that heard it and got the answer and didn't need to talk to the boy or 2) that he won't address it all. I won't ask.

Dylan said these past two days were good and nobody had to give him a strike or talk to him about his behavior. I got home from work and he and DH had already done the math homework together. When he days like that, I think "see? he CAN behave".....but I'm fooling myself.

I cannot thank you enough for all the wonderful support you've given us. I have read every post and reply to my DH. It also helped open his mind more, because as his dad, I think he feels he can fix anything and had a hard time accepting our son's issue, not having it, having to make the decision to medicate and he has not disputed any of my thoughts on how to move forward. He is an awesome dad to Dylan (and to our DD17). I'm so glad we are a team. If he's gone too long or leaves without Dylan, he acts up and wants him home....but I'm sure you ALL know how that goes

I promise to update next week.

Lori

 

[Lorix2]

OP, from what I have been told, ADD is a result of an imbalance of dopamine in the brain. Kids with ADD WILL seek out stimulation, and later in life that could mean smoking, pot, or other drugs. The prescription stimulants do the same thing, but are monitored by a dr. Yes, there could be side effects, but they are usually worked through easily. If your son had an infection, wouldn't you give him the antibiotics and not worry about side effects until if and when they happened? I just think that one day you might wish you had at least tried medication. It could make your son a lot more successful, which is what everyone would love to see.

You may find this site interesting http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/misunderstoodminds/

I just watched the DVD and the case stories from that are on the site, plus information to help kids deal with problems in behavior and/or academics.

Marsha

thank you for the link, I will definitely visit. I've updated my post and just do you don't have to read thru my new long winded post, we have decided to start medication. I realize now we need to try it.

 

[torinsmom]

One question OP--You say your son is average, but is that overall, or does he have subjects he is really good at and those he struggles with? I ask because I was told for several years not to worry about my son, because he was average. The teacher said "There is nothing wrong with your child being average." I totally got that, but when I would look at assessments, he would have a 95% in one thing, then a 12% in another, a 88% in one area and a 5% in another. This was every standardized assessment. Averaged together, he was average, but those GAPS showed there were major issues. When I finally got him evaluated, he qualified as LD in four areas. Just wanted to mention that. The school will most likely not recommend re-testing, as they are discouraged from spending money on testing.

Marsha