Advice welcome dealing with son & his school ***HE'S BEEN MOVED!***

[polyfan]

Reallly??? Well, where I live in NJ, for my DD who has a 504, we have been meeting the child study team since 1st grade! She is in 8th grade now. And when we started dealing with my DS for his evaluation...2 years ago...guess what..it was the same child study team!! For DD they said 504...for DS IEP. Same people...same group.

First let me say I was born and raised in New Jersey- ok, now I personally have not been impressed with how 504 and special education is dealt with- my sister has been fighting for her daughter who is in 7th grade to get help since she was in 2nd grade- things are handled very different from where I am now and they have been unwilling to help- she is a very sweet girl,but academically struggles and always has- if the 504 and child study team are the same-that really does not say much to me since when looking at a possible special education issue there should be specialists involved such as the school psych, educational diagnostician and social worker- since they are the ones that will do the testing- just my own personal rant on school systems not doing what they should

 

[agnes!]

Since it is apparent many posters are without the correct knowledge - to the original OP- first , a 504 plan does not fall under special education- therefore there is not a resource class for these students as there is for those with a special education label-

ADD/ADHD can also be eligible under special education under the category of OHI, which means the childs attention/behavior is significantly impacting his education- this is entirely different than a learning disability- with an IEP the child would have alternative classroom placements available to him unlike the current 504 plan- a behavior plan could be added to the 504 plan also-

a 504 plan can be revised with a 504 meeting called, as long as the team feels the revisions are appropriate

These are all options the parent should be aware of and looking into

Someone postedabout looking into goals for the 504- there is no such thing-a 504 provides accommodations/modificactions only-totally different than an IEP with goals


For those with sarcastic remarks please gain educational insight before slinging mud-there are always two sides to a story and as an educator you would be amazed at the lack of effort on the parents part

One can also be amazed at the lack of effort on the parts of some teachers *and* the willingness of some teachers to go above and beyond. Some teachers are actual life-savers (yes, they were) and others?...well, let's just leave it as "not so much". As you yourself stated...there are *always* two sides to a story. The OP didn't come on here with a fire-breathing rant about how this particular teacher is the spawn of Satan. This is clear from her OP and subsequent posts (especially this one)...

I really don't want this thread to get ugly and locked, because I really need this info available to me right now and my printer is acting up. These posts are invaluable to me including yours.

agnes!

 

[polyfan]

Question: What is a 504 plan?
Answer: The "504" in "504 plan" refers to Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act and the Americans with Disabilities Act, which specifies that no one with a disability can be excluded from participating in federally funded programs or activities, including elementary, secondary or postsecondary schooling. "Disability" in this context refers to a "physical or mental impairment which substantially limits one or more major life activities." This can include physical impairments; illnesses or injuries; communicable diseases; chronic conditions like asthma, allergies and diabetes; and learning problems. A 504 plan spells out the modifications and accommodations that will be needed for these students to have an opportunity perform at the same level as their peers, and might include such things as wheelchair ramps, blood sugar monitoring, an extra set of textbooks, a peanut-free lunch environment, home instruction, or a tape recorder or keyboard for taking notes.

Question: How does a 504 plan differ from an IEP?
Answer: A 504 plan, which falls under civil-rights law, is an attempt to remove barriers and allow students with disabilities to participate freely; like the Americans With Disabilities Act, it seeks to level the playing field so that those students can safely pursue the same opportunities as everyone else. An IEP, which falls under the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, is much more concerned with actually providing educational services. Students eligible for an IEP, or Individualized Education Plan, represent a small subset of all students with disabilities. They generally require more than a level playing field -- they require significant remediation and assistance, and are more likely to work on their own level at their own pace even in an inclusive classroom. Only certain classifications of disability are eligible for an IEP, and students who do not meet those classifications but still require some assistance to be able to participate fully in school would be candidates for a 504 plan.

Exactly- the IEP is for those that have a disability significantly impacting their education, as I stated earlier


Disclaimer- sorry for going on and on- but I am a big special ed advocate and have been the childstudy chair for my building for many years and do not like to see student needs ignored from any end of the spectrum- school or home

 

[polyfan]

One can also be amazed at the lack of effort on the parts of some teachers *and* the willingness of some teachers to go above and beyond. Some teachers are actual life-savers (yes, they were) and others?...well, let's just leave it as "not so much". As you yourself stated...there are *always* two sides to a story. The OP didn't come on here with a fire-breathing rant about how this particular teacher is the spawn of Satan. This is clear from her OP and subsequent posts (especially this one)...



agnes!

My concern comes in when it is not just one subject that is of issue,but two=- there must be something in common - it is very difficult to manage and be sympathetic to a child when they are a disruption to all the other students trying to learn-especially when there are things that can be done-meaning on both ends- at home by the parent-such as tutoring,learning centers, meds- behavior incentive plan at home and by the school when it comes to providing the appropriate services for the child to be successful

 

[disneydreamingdebby]

Polyfan, (for closure) I teach many students whose parents don't care, don't know how to care, or don't have time to care. Thank you for demonstrating knowledge and professionalism in your recent post.

Lori, I apologize for taking the thread away from your goal. I think the timeframe that Polyfan provided varies depending on the state.

I wouldn't suggest going down the road for him to be placed in classes based on ADD/ ADHD if he hasn't had major issues learning in the past (sorry don't remember which you said). From what you posted, it seems that his behavior issues stem from confusion in the class and the teacher's refusal to help (and attitude towards him).

The 504 protects your son from discrimination by law, but it won't have the same services available to him as an IEP.

 

[OceanAnnie]

My concern comes in when it is not just one subject that is of issue,but two=- there must be something in common - it is very difficult to manage and be sympathetic to a child when they are a disruption to all the other students trying to learn-especially when there are things that can be done-meaning on both ends- at home by the parent-such as tutoring,learning centers, meds- behavior incentive plan at home and by the school when it comes to providing the appropriate services for the child to be successful

One commonality is the teachers don't seem to like this student. Their attitudes in the meeting conveyed as much as well as the "jerk" statement. The OP's son doesn't have problems in the other classes.

 

[polyfan]

Lorix2

for special education laws in New Hampshire- it is very long, but you can just focus on the initial referral and evaluation part for now


http://www.ed.state.nh.us/education...nts/NHRuleswAmendmentJune102009June302008.pdf


As disneydreamingdebby stated, each state has its own exact timelines, however most seem to be within 5-10 days of each other.

 

[Lorix2]

Lorix2

for special education laws in New Hampshire- it is very long, but you can just focus on the initial referral and evaluation part for now


http://www.ed.state.nh.us/education...nts/NHRuleswAmendmentJune102009June302008.pdf


As disneydreamingdebby stated, each state has its own exact timelines, however most seem to be within 5-10 days of each other.

thank you for this link, very helpful

 

[jinia]

I don't understand why there is noone at home to help with the math homework. I teach 7th grade math, and personally I find it hard to believe that neither parent can help?? what about the older sibling?? a tutor? if he is struggling than he needs more help than a teacher can give in class- also with so much behavior issue there is no wonder he doesn't get it- he's not spending the time trying- instead he is misbehaving

WOW... are you serious??? DS is in 2nd and they were asking stuff I had to look up to help him. How the do/show math changes every few years - of course it is completely believable that the parents could be lost. How do you know that it's behaviour issues causing this issue - could it be he is so lost, overwhelmed and treated so disrespectfully that he is having problems. Great armchairing....

OP disregard attacks and look for advice!

 

[Mouse House Mama]

WOW... are you serious??? DS is in 2nd and they were asking stuff I had to look up to help him. How the do/show math changes every few years - of course it is completely believable that the parents could be lost. How do you know that it's behaviour issues causing this issue - could it be he is so lost, overwhelmed and treated so disrespectfully that he is having problems. Great armchairing....

OP disregard attacks and look for advice!

Well I am going to stick up for the psoter you quoted. I get not understanding the homework. However, as a parent when your child struggles then YOU need to find out how to help them. If that means speding time late at night on the website that the teacher reccomended so you can understand so you can help your child then you do that. If it means you hire a tutor then you do that. If it means your child needs an afterschool learning center to help then you do that. I do not agree with the teacher's attitude but the parents need to do something. They cannot just go to the school and say "we don't understand" and expect the teacher to teach them all. The school gave them the resources, they have to use them. I am not blaming the parents at all but let's be honest here, parents and teachers need to both be on board. It is not soley the responsibility of the teacher.
The teacher needs to be reprimanded about her remarks though. That is innappropriate. I can however understand why she may feel that way. It is still not right though.

 

[Lorix2]

However, as a parent when your child struggles then YOU need to find out how to help them. If that means speding time late at night on the website that the teacher reccomended so you can understand so you can help your child then you do that. If it means you hire a tutor then you do that..

I am TRYING to find out how to help him myself, at home. But what about while he is IN school? It's the reason he is thereafterall. A good teacher would be concerned for him and offer more than a website or an after school program who will not teach the way she is.

 

[torinsmom]

Sounds like a lot of excuses-there must be examples in the book along with the notes the teacher has provided in class of how to do the work as long as the child is taking the notes, which often times they are not especially if they are a behavior problem- 6th grade math is not that difficult or different from years ago- it is only the beginning of the school year, most of it is still review from 5th grad-there are also plenty of tutors that are knowledgeable along with learning centers- if my child were having that much trouble I would sure be figuring out what I could do to help him at home-

Wow, that was quite a long run-on sentence.

I don't know about 6th grade math, but I can say that Algebra has changed in the last 20 years since I was in high school. Some of the Algebra my DS is doing, I did in Advanced Math/Pre-Calc! It was just shocking to me! I was a honors student in high school, and was especially good at math. He took Algebra for the first time last year and despite him not being a behavior problem, and him getting extra help at school and during after school tutoring, he failed. DS would come home with his homework and there would literally be ONE example for the type of problem he had. That example was not enough for him(or me) to understand problems that differed somewhat. DS has a writing disability, and is unable to take complete notes, so I spent HOURS with him watching youtube videos on how to do different types of problems. Yes, he failed, and he is taking it again. His teacher is much more helpful this year and if he thinks my DS does not get a concept, he will send me the notes.

Another problem with math these days is that with NCLB, the teachers have to move through things way too fast. For kids who do not get math concepts quickly, it is nearly impossible for them to do well. Math concepts build on one another, so if you don't totally "get" one concept, you will most likely have trouble down the road.

OP, just keep doing what you're doing. No matter how much a child misbehaves, no teacher has the right to treat them badly. I AM a teacher, and I have had plenty of behavior problems; it is part of the job.

Marsha

 

[torinsmom]

Hmmm...you are really off base. First of all I have a BS and had to take several years of calculus...so I know my math. Now I have had issues of the past few years helping my kids with their math, since when I start doing it my way..they say...NO...it has to be the way the teacher showed us. ANd for many years they don't bring a book, they have these stupid work sheets...with 1 example that shows you NOTHING!!!

ALso...hw is to reinforce what they learned in school. It is up to the teacher to TEACH THE CHILD, not the parent!!

When my child has hw I can't even udnerstand what they want, I send it back with them with a note!

ITA! And what is with the new way of teaching things? I mean, if you can get the answer, WHO CARES how you got it! Many ADD kids can do the math in their head(even complicated concepts), but they don't get credit because they didn't show their work. Just because most people can't get the answer without working it out doesn't mean it can't be done.


Last year, there was one type of problem where the teacher showed the kids THREE DIFFERENT ways to do the problem. She taught them all in the same day and then on the test, they had to use one method for one set, a second for a second set and a third for the last set. I would think you teach them different ways, and let them use what works the best. DS got them all mixed up and failed that test.

OP, my son HAS an IEP and he still doesn't get much help, unless I come out and ask for it. I emailed my DS' teachers two weeks into the school year and not one of the realized he had an IEP

Marsha

 

[surfgirl]

OP, I understand that the method that math is taught can differ from how we learned it many years ago. Heck, it is different from school district to school district!

One idea: can you get a copy of the book that he is using for home ? That way he doesn't need to carry it back and forth and you can refer to how the lesson was taught so you can be consistent with explanations?

Two ways to accomplish this:
1) ask the school for an extra copy. This may or may not work depending on how many kids and how many books.
2) buy an extra copy. Make sure you get the correct edition and copyright year. (you can do this online)

I would also consider asking that teacher for lesson plans. If she in not cooperative, call a meeting and explain to the principal that you would like to reinforce the learning at home and lesson plans (and worksheets) and a book would help. You may get rejected, but most educators are happy when parents and willing to step up and help their children be successful.

good luck... and please post an update.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Well with math in particular the concepts build. Once a student gets behind it's difficult to catch up. While the rest of the class is trotting off in another direction, the OP's DS is left to spin his wheels because of a host of reasons. None of them good. OP, I'd find out more about the statement the teacher made about your DS "wasting time". If your DS doesn't understand the concepts and he isn't getting the instruction it is wasted time, but he isn't the one doing it. It sounds like your DS is between a rock and a hard place.

If he talks he gets a demerit. So he's expected to just sit in class and get what he missed outside of class? The teacher has nothing for him? That's nuts. I'm sure that is beyond frustrating.

 

[torinsmom]

OP, I understand that the method that math is taught can differ from how we learned it many years ago. Heck, it is different from school district to school district!

One idea: can you get a copy of the book that he is using for home ? That way he doesn't need to carry it back and forth and you can refer to how the lesson was taught so you can be consistent with explanations?

Two ways to accomplish this:
1) ask the school for an extra copy. This may or may not work depending on how many kids and how many books.
2) buy an extra copy. Make sure you get the correct edition and copyright year. (you can do this online)

I would also consider asking that teacher for lesson plans. If she in not cooperative, call a meeting and explain to the principal that you would like to reinforce the learning at home and lesson plans (and worksheets) and a book would help. You may get rejected, but most educators are happy when parents and willing to step up and help their children be successful.

good luck... and please post an update.

Hmmm...maybe getting a copy of the teacher notes could be added to his 504 accommodations! I forgot that is one of my DS' accommodations. His history teacher in middle school gave out copies of teacher note to kids BEFORE the lecture. They had blanks, so the kids had to listen, but didn't have to take such long notes. That is very good for kids with working memory problems(not able to take notes and listen to the next information at the same time).

Marsha

 

[Lorix2]

Hi everyone, I'm still reading your post and taking everything in and I'm so grateful for all of your help.

I just remembered that I walked out of the school with the long forms in my hand in triplicate by accident...well, we were reading them and because the meeting was so hectic they never got signed.....but I just re read one from his art teacher that states "Dylan's behavior in art class has continually been disruptive - he can't sit still, talks out, etc.. I've separated him from the other students in hopes that he will improve but has not. He the masking tape & wrapped it around his wrist and finger. All of my students have been told that our supplies are very precious and we must conserve and he thought he did nothing wrong!" that was word for word.

Hello?????? does she not know that he has attention deficit????

Also, Dylan tells us that he has to sit in the back of the class (math, ss) and face the wall since the 2nd week of school. He has to turn around to see the board and back again for notes. My DH asked him to draw an outline of the class and where he is in relation to the door, the windows and the teacher. He drew exactly where he is and even more detail "if we want to go see it".

I'm drafting a letter thoughtfully, respectfully and slowly to the school principal referencing our meeting the other day and how it left us with more questions than answers and what I would like to come of this whole situation and how we were treated by his staff and a copy of this letter will also be going to the school district's ADA/504 Coordinator.

My chest is so tight and my shoulders so tight I swear if I turn my head quickly, I'll lock into that position. I think I'm dehydrated from crying so much, I'm so sick over this and the fight we have to face now, but moreover for my son who has to live it and struggle. He's burned bridges and I don't know how the rest of the year will unfold, but he needs and deserves more than these teachers are willing to give.

Stay tuned for an update tomorrow if this thread hasn't worn you out

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I am TRYING to find out how to help him myself, at home. But what about while he is IN school? It's the reason he is thereafterall. A good teacher would be concerned for him and offer more than a website or an after school program who will not teach the way she is.

What do you want her to offer? She is offering you what she knows to offer. I am not blaming you in any way but sometimes a parent has to be proactive. That sometimes means searching things out for yourself. Again, I do not think ther behavior is appropriate but you yourself might have to do some more legwork. I know it is frustrating but it is that way with just about every kid. Very few teachers will have all the answers for parents. Sometimes you have to take matters into your own hands.

 

[Magic Mom]

but I just re read one from his art teacher that states "Dylan's behavior in art class has continually been disruptive - he can't sit still, talks out, etc.. I've separated him from the other students in hopes that he will improve but has not. He the masking tape & wrapped it around his wrist and finger. All of my students have been told that our supplies are very precious and we must conserve and he thought he did nothing wrong!" that was word for word.

Hello?????? does she not know that he has attention deficit????

:

MAybe that's her point. He needs something more to be productive and not disrupt the class. It can't be ALL up to the teachers to guide his behavior. He needs either medication or therapy(or both) to help him control his own behavior.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Hi everyone, I'm still reading your post and taking everything in and I'm so grateful for all of your help.

I just remembered that I walked out of the school with the long forms in my hand in triplicate by accident...well, we were reading them and because the meeting was so hectic they never got signed.....but I just re read one from his art teacher that states "Dylan's behavior in art class has continually been disruptive - he can't sit still, talks out, etc.. I've separated him from the other students in hopes that he will improve but has not. He the masking tape & wrapped it around his wrist and finger. All of my students have been told that our supplies are very precious and we must conserve and he thought he did nothing wrong!" that was word for word.

Hello?????? does she not know that he has attention deficit????

Also, Dylan tells us that he has to sit in the back of the class (math, ss) and face the wall since the 2nd week of school. He has to turn around to see the board and back again for notes. My DH asked him to draw an outline of the class and where he is in relation to the door, the windows and the teacher. He drew exactly where he is and even more detail "if we want to go see it".

I'm drafting a letter thoughtfully, respectfully and slowly to the school principal referencing our meeting the other day and how it left us with more questions than answers and what I would like to come of this whole situation and how we were treated by his staff and a copy of this letter will also be going to the school district's ADA/504 Coordinator.

My chest is so tight and my shoulders so tight I swear if I turn my head quickly, I'll lock into that position. I think I'm dehydrated from crying so much, I'm so sick over this and the fight we have to face now, but moreover for my son who has to live it and struggle. He's burned bridges and I don't know how the rest of the year will unfold, but he needs and deserves more than these teachers are willing to give.

Stay tuned for an update tomorrow if this thread hasn't worn you out

I don't know. IMO a student can't really burn bridges in a learning environment. They make mistakes, sure. The relationships are a two way street. He isn't getting respect, it's hard to give it in return. Being called a jerk by the teacher is okay (to that teacher), but he'll be reprimanded swiftly by a cue if he talks? That's not right. He's being held to a standard that the teacher doesn't even have for herself. Maybe the teacher is burning the bridges.

I wouldn't make apologies for your DS. It sounds like the teachers have forgotten he has a 504. It is all interconnected. They need to see him as a student that needs help, not a behavior problem.