A "is this a good college" thread for all college searchers...

[WDWMom]

Anyone know Western Michigan in Kalamazoo, particularly their fine arts program? We were there last weekend, and DS did an audition for musical theatre. We really liked the campus and the program. They said they have a "realistic" minimum of 22 ACT and 2.5 GPA. They addressed the out of state tuition thing, suggesting students could stay down through the first summer and get in-state tuition. Anything not to like (presuming he gets accepted -- he's been accepted to the university but the musical theatre program is considered highly selective)? I'd like to know if anyone has any experience, good or bad.

The only thing bad I have to say about WMU is that it is my alma mater's major rival DH and I went to Central MI.

WMU is a good solid school.


For those wanting more about schools, check out collegeboard.com It is an excellent resource.

 

[Rexfan]

I haven't posted here in a few years, but I was compelled to comment. It's East, not Eastern Carolina University.

That being said, my daughter was accepted to UNC, State, Drexel, and a few more. She has a 4.3 GPA and 2100 on her SAT's. She is going to ECU's 2nd year
of Honor's College and marching in their band. They have an awesome art dept(and she's taking their new animation major), and has dreams of Disney animation.

Yeah, it might have been known as a party school, but I couldn't be more proud of her decision.

 

[golfgal]

We've always been "savers," so we do have the money set aside, but the penny-pinching side of us is having a hard time getting a grasp on what a realistic amount to spend on tuition is. The penny-pinching side of me wants to direct them to the free education they were offered, but I'm trying to silence that side of me just a bit so that I can figure out what would be an appropriate amount to agree to. I know personally I'd never go $50,000 for tuition per year, but I'm wondering what is that "number" for others in our situation so that I can try to set ours in the next couple of weeks when decisions have to be made.

Thanks for your input!

We told our kids that they have to "earn" as much money as possible-scholarships, summer jobs, etc. and we will take care of the rest. If we don't feel like they are putting forth enough effort to earn money, they are on their own. If they chose not to fill out private scholarship applications, sorry, no help from us. If you chose to work 10 hours/week over the summer and goof off the rest of the, time, sorry. They will be expected to take out 'some' loans because I think that is a valuable lesson AND will help them save money in the long run with a better credit score (lower interest rates on cars/houses, cheaper car insurance, etc.).

Our oldest made enough money and got enough scholarships, etc. to cover his first year of school. We paid for his books first semester ($350 or so). This semester he was able to borrow books from friends so he paid $21 for his books . He will still have about $500 left over from that this year. Haven't heard about next year's money yet so who knows.

Part of DD15's "earnings" will possibly come in golf scholarships. If she gets enough from that, her "job" will be to work on her golf game all summer so she KEEPS that money. She already has a job lined up for the next 8 years or so working summer golf camps with her golf coach so she will do that no matter what.

 

[linnylu]

I agree. My daughter got scholarship offers to every school she applied to. We don't get need based financial aid. The SUNY she chose gave her a full tuition scholarship so we pay $13,000 a year for room and board and fees. She opted for this school over her Dad'a alma mater, a private school that offered her a 27,000 annual merit scholarship, but that school's total cost was about 52,000.00 for her Freshman year so we/she would have had to pay 25,000.00 for her freshman year. The private school could be expected to rise higher each year. The SUNY she chose guarantees that the room and board will remain constant for the 4 years she is there. So if anything the fees may go up a couple of hundred dollars over the course of her 4 years. The quality of education was copmprable for both schools.

I went to a SUNY school and got a wonderful under graduate education. I went to private school for grad school and paid off my loans for 20 years! I certainly wish that I had gone to SUNY for graduate school as well.

I also find that with the current economy, more and more people are appliying to SUNY schools and many are quite competitive.

Do you know if this is true for all SUNY schools? My ds is looking at SUNY at Buffalo. I would love to get some thoughts on this school. He specifically is looking at the pharm D program. We are from Ohio and even the out of state tuition is reasonable compared to some privates. DS got a scholarship that makes this school very affordable since we won't qualify for need-based aid.

 

[pixie dust 112]

Do you know if this is true for all SUNY schools? My ds is looking at SUNY at Buffalo. I would love to get some thoughts on this school. He specifically is looking at the pharm D program. We are from Ohio and even the out of state tuition is reasonable compared to some privates. DS got a scholarship that makes this school very affordable since we won't qualify for need-based aid.

I don't think that is the case for all SUNY schools.

 

[disneygals]

.
And what I keep saying is that this will be true for a few students, but the majority of students will not be offered bucketloads of money, enough to bring the cost of an expensive school to less than the cost of a less expensive school. Sure, it happens occasionally and if you're interested in the more expensive school, it's worth a shot -- but it's not something you can count upon.

This! I have found that the most popular line when people talk about college is...I know someone who.. fill in the rest with a magical free college story.

Most people who comment on these threads have success stories. Sorry, we don't have one. Or I could just say that my dd received a $52,000 scholarship to her dream school. It's the truth, but we couldn't/wouldn't pay $156,000 that would be left for the 4 yr program.

 

[MrsPete]

Sounds like an excellent plan. We've always told our boys we'd pay for college, but I should have been more explicit about exactly what we'll pay for, as you have done. But silly me waits until now to figure it out.

Thanks for your advice. You hit our view on the head in your last paragraph.

Glad to be helpful. Personally, I like the idea of telling them we'll pay for tuition, etc. at a state school because that's essentially telling them we'll pay for the basics -- and if they want "more", they foot the "more".

It's very important to us that our kids earn a college education in a field that'll allow them to work profitably and support themselves, BUT it isn't our ONLY financial obligation. It's important to us that they be able to begin their professional lives debt-free. It'll be a couple years 'til I can tell you how it all works out.

We told our kids that they have to "earn" as much money as possible-scholarships, summer jobs, etc. and we will take care of the rest. If we don't feel like they are putting forth enough effort to earn money, they are on their own. If they chose not to fill out private scholarship applications, sorry, no help from us. If you chose to work 10 hours/week over the summer and goof off the rest of the, time, sorry.

Yes, absolutely. I've been saving for college, and I'm very willing to pay for it -- but I'm not going to contribute, contribute, contribute while the girls sit back and do nothing!

Along the same thought process, our girls'll be on the semester plan. We'll pay for first semester, and assuming we see good grades and progression towards graduation, we'll pay for second semester. Do well second semester, we'll pay for third semester. On the other hand, goof off and fail a class, and we've gotta re-evaluate our agreement. Maybe we've gotta re-evaluate whether you're ready to be away at school at all.

 

[golfgal]

Glad to be helpful. Personally, I like the idea of telling them we'll pay for tuition, etc. at a state school because that's essentially telling them we'll pay for the basics -- and if they want "more", they foot the "more".

It's very important to us that our kids earn a college education in a field that'll allow them to work profitably and support themselves, BUT it isn't our ONLY financial obligation. It's important to us that they be able to begin their professional lives debt-free. It'll be a couple years 'til I can tell you how it all works out. Yes, absolutely. I've been saving for college, and I'm very willing to pay for it -- but I'm not going to contribute, contribute, contribute while the girls sit back and do nothing!

Along the same thought process, our girls'll be on the semester plan. We'll pay for first semester, and assuming we see good grades and progression towards graduation, we'll pay for second semester. Do well second semester, we'll pay for third semester. On the other hand, goof off and fail a class, and we've gotta re-evaluate our agreement. Maybe we've gotta re-evaluate whether you're ready to be away at school at all.

I would suggest paying for second semester once they show they are doing the work, etc. Then if they do well second semester, you will pay for 4th semester, etc. Make them show you first that they are willing to put in the effort. It gives them ownership of their schooling too.

 

[golfgal]

This! I have found that the most popular line when people talk about college is...I know someone who.. fill in the rest with a magical free college story.

Most people who comment on these threads have success stories. Sorry, we don't have one. Or I could just say that my dd received a $52,000 scholarship to her dream school. It's the truth, but we couldn't/wouldn't pay $156,000 that would be left for the 4 yr program.

Or some of us know a LOT of someones for which this is true. Again, Mrs. Pete's experience is what happens in HER area, it is NOT what happens elsewhere. I don't know why it is so different but I don't know ANY student that was a good student in high school (3.5 or better-with good test scores-good, not amazing-27+ on the ACT or better) that HASN'T gotten the bulk of their schooling paid for through scholarships/grants either from the school or private sources. Obviously for kids that have less then a 3.0 this won't be the case but those aren't the kids that are going to apply (or shouldn't be applying) to selective schools.

 

[tw1nsmom]

Or some of us know a LOT of someones for which this is true. Again, Mrs. Pete's experience is what happens in HER area, it is NOT what happens elsewhere. I don't know why it is so different but I don't know ANY student that was a good student in high school (3.5 or better-with good test scores-good, not amazing-27+ on the ACT or better) that HASN'T gotten the bulk of their schooling paid for through scholarships/grants either from the school or private sources. Obviously for kids that have less then a 3.0 this won't be the case but those aren't the kids that are going to apply (or shouldn't be applying) to selective schools.

I think it's your experience that doesn't happen elsewhere. A 3.0 or even 3.5 won't get you major scholarship money at private schools in the Northeast. It's much more rare and complex than that. I think it's irresponsible to not advise young people to apply to a variety of schools that have a variety of expenses. If their dream private school comes through with big money, then great. But if they don't, and the student hasn't applied to a less expensive school they may be setting themselves up for a world of crushing debt. Again, your reality is not the reality of most.

 

[erincon23]

Golfgal -- honestly, not that I know anything about it, but did Carthage in Racine, WI hit your radar for golf schools? One of the guys from our Boy Scout troop is there on a golf scholarship, playing on the team. He's studying, I think, golf course management. I would assume they have a girls' team as well. And they hand out a fair amount of money -- we also know a girl who's going there for education, and know her family isn't paying much out of pocket.

 

[bballmom56]

I think it's your experience that doesn't happen elsewhere.

Not true. It happens in my area - quite a bit. Our state schools are expensive and except for a couple are nothing spectacular. My kids both went to an out of state private that was much better than most of our state schools for less than we would have paid at the state schools. That was due to a variety of scholarships that would not have been available at the state schools.

I have not told people not to go to state schools - I just tell them not to avoid the privates just because of their sticker price. Research, visit, ask questions, and apply to a variety of schools (including privates) and compare when the results are in.

This seems to be a regional thing and depends on the public and privates in that area. It doesn't make one person wrong or one person right. It just makes it a different experience in different places.

 

[Buckalew11]

Saw Elon mentioned and wanted to comment that a client of mine went there and got an excellent education and loved it. He's working for the FBI now. Very impressive young man.

My nephew got accepted there but chose Furman in SC. He's loving it there! (Computer Science)

Greentea, thanks for the link about Sewanee(sux, lol). Sewanee is a a wonderful school with a great reputation. Of course, they are a bit of a rival for us so we add to their name, . Anyway, my DH's nephew went there for 1 semester but wasn't quite happy there. He finished at UTK and loved it. Some people like bigger schools.

I have a nephew who just graduated from Presbyterian College (SC) and he loved it there. Always wanted to go to University of SC but afer an overnight visit to PC (smaller, private) fell in love with it. Those college visits (and overnights) can really make a difference.

I also have a niece at Wingate in NC. She wanted to go to High Point but could not afford it. She is very happy at Wingate.

Niece who is a JR is interested in Clemson but her parents are divorcing and I do not think dad is going to help her with cllege.
Not sure where she will go...time will tell.

DD is looking at very few. Maryville topping the list. We'll see.

 

[allison443]

Or some of us know a LOT of someones for which this is true. Again, Mrs. Pete's experience is what happens in HER area, it is NOT what happens elsewhere. I don't know why it is so different but I don't know ANY student that was a good student in high school (3.5 or better-with good test scores-good, not amazing-27+ on the ACT or better) that HASN'T gotten the bulk of their schooling paid for through scholarships/grants either from the school or private sources. Obviously for kids that have less then a 3.0 this won't be the case but those aren't the kids that are going to apply (or shouldn't be applying) to selective schools.

I have a question about the bolded. Don't ANY of the people you know make too much to qualify for need based aid? Many if not most of the top schools (where you have said you know kids attend) give only need based aid. All of the people you know who attend those schools qualify for need based financial aid? Are salaries lower in Minnesota or something because we've had many people on this thread who don't qualify, who have a very high EFC. So if those people's kids attend a school that gives only need based aid, they'd be paying full price. But it seems like everyone you know gets financial aid.

 

[MrsPete]

I would suggest paying for second semester once they show they are doing the work, etc. Then if they do well second semester, you will pay for 4th semester, etc. Make them show you first that they are willing to put in the effort. It gives them ownership of their schooling too.

Exactly what I meant. Perhaps my wording was poor. I'm tired after a long weekend and should go to bed.

I think it's irresponsible to not advise young people to apply to a variety of schools that have a variety of expenses. If their dream private school comes through with big money, then great. But if they don't, and the student hasn't applied to a less expensive school they may be setting themselves up for a world of crushing debt.

I tell my seniors to apply to three categories of school:

1. Apply to the dream school, the reach school. Even if you think you won't get in, even if you think you can't afford it. APPLY. For someone, the stars will align and everything'll work out. Give it a try -- but don't bank on it. Understand that this is your long shot. It's worth the cost of admission to SEE if you could attend _____. It's also not a bad exercise in character building; many of our good students have never really had a negative academic experience, and it's not a bad thing to be knocked on your butt at least once while you're still living at home and have your parents to pick you up.

2. Apply to at least two schools that're realistic for you (three if one of your schools is UNC-W, which is a good school but unpredictable with its admissions). Schools where you're sure of admission. Schools you're sure you can reasonably afford. Schools that fit your criteria for size, location, etc. Schools where you and your parents agree you'd be successful in every way. Put the bulk of your efforts into this category because this is PROBABLY where you'll be going.

3. Apply to a safety net school (if community college is the plan, it's okay not to actually apply -- here, you could be admitted in August). No one thinks anything bad's going to happen to derail his college plans, but something's going to happen to someone. It might be you, and if something tragic happens, it's easier to handle if you have a back-up plan in mind already. Have SOMETHING in mind so that if everything in your life goes wrong -- no scholarship, no financial aid comes through AND your parents suddenly cannot provide the previously-expected help, etc. -- if something goes wrong, you can at least START college. This might mean living at home and going to community college. This might mean going to our nearby state university part-time. What could you do 100% on your own if your whole world fell apart? I've known a couple students who were very surprised to end up at their safety schools: One who developed a rare form of cancer, which made going away to school an impossibility. One who had twins and chose to give up a full-ride to NC State. And I've known quite a few who expected money that didn't materialize.

If you apply to schools in these three categories, YOU'RE COVERED for any eventuality. Whether the financial aid and scholarship gods are good or bad to you, you have a plan.

we also know a girl who's going there for education, and know her family isn't paying much out of pocket.

Some majors are "better" for scholarships than others. Education and nursing scholarships are more plentiful, for example, than some other disciplines. On the other hand, co-op internships are plentiful for engineering.

For example, my grandfather was one of ten kids orphaned at a young age. His not-much-older brother took him in, but college money was non-existant. He figured out that he could get a Teaching Fellows Scholarship, which would pay 100% of his education -- though he had no real interest in teaching. He took the scholarship and graduated from Wake Forest (which is why my grandmother was always so rabid for me to attend Wake Forest), taught long enough to "pay back" his obligation, coached basketball for extra money, married one of his students, and then went on to do other things. An ideal situation? No, but it was a way through college for him. Not bad for an orphaned farmer's son.

 

[collegejunkie]

i'd recommend tulane to anyone who has a kid with stats good enough for an ivy but doesn't expect financial aid. they love to give out merit money and it's a solid school.

and for anyone else, i would highly recommend applying to top privates if you think your kid has a realistic shot at acceptance. most of them have excellent aid programs and depending on your EFC, you could be spending next to nothing.

 

[tar heel]

I have a question about the bolded. Don't ANY of the people you know make too much to qualify for need based aid? Many if not most of the top schools (where you have said you know kids attend) give only need based aid. All of the people you know who attend those schools qualify for need based financial aid? Are salaries lower in Minnesota or something because we've had many people on this thread who don't qualify, who have a very high EFC. So if those people's kids attend a school that gives only need based aid, they'd be paying full price. But it seems like everyone you know gets financial aid.

I'm puzzled by this, too. I also wonder how much of these packages is in the form of loans.

 

[tar heel]

I don't think it's mentioned on this thread, but one of the surest ways to qualify for some full ride scholarships is to be a National Merit finalist. These kids get offers from schools they have not expressed any interest in. Of course, you do have to want to go to one of the schools to actually use one of the scholarships, and this is a very small number of kids. These students' qualifications are a lot higher than the 3.5/good test scores, and the fact that some schools will give them a free ride doesn't mean other schools will give them a cent.

 

[bluesaturn]

Or some of us know a LOT of someones for which this is true. Again, Mrs. Pete's experience is what happens in HER area, it is NOT what happens elsewhere. I don't know why it is so different but I don't know ANY student that was a good student in high school (3.5 or better-with good test scores-good, not amazing-27+ on the ACT or better) that HASN'T gotten the bulk of their schooling paid for through scholarships/grants either from the school or private sources. Obviously for kids that have less then a 3.0 this won't be the case but those aren't the kids that are going to apply (or shouldn't be applying) to selective schools.

I'm just going to jump in and say I found the exact opposite to be true on the east coast. Myself and most of my closest friends were all in the top 10% of our class. Besides the top 5 of us (who all got the same scholarship, from the same state school), no one had most of their schooling paid for from scholarships/grants. I don't know about loans, but in my opinion that doesn't really count as free money. We all came from middle class families, so too much to get any reasonable financial aide, but also not enough to actually pay private school prices.

I'm not saying this to disagree with golfgal, but as she mentioned things seem to be particularly different between the east coast and the Minnesota area. So I agree with MrsPete's (and others) experience in the east. Except New Jersey seems to be completely different, with those students going to schools in all the surrounding states. Maybe I need to move to Minnesota before I have college age kids.

 

[clarabelle]

My understanding was that some schools give merit aid and some don't right?

I know that Davidson -just for an example will meet demonstrated need but gives out very little non-need based aid. The little they give out goes to the real "superstars"

I know that Agnes Scott does give merit aid (unfortunately my DD is not interested)