xPass or Premium FASTPASS? Yes, I'm Starting ANOTHER FP Forum

[macraven]

The premium pass works for DLP and Universal, because there are very few hotels associated with the pass. It may have worked 20 years ago at WDW, but now, there are so many hotels and resorts, that the large number of on property guest would dilute the effectiveness of the pass.

if the xpass was allowed for deluxe hotel guests only, it could work.
i don't think it would clog the lines with longer waits for others.

hopefully, the regular fast pass that is in existance would stay operational for all park guests.


universal only has 3 hotels.
not all guests staying there spend their days in the parks.
even with hotel guests and those that buy the epp, the express line system never has long waits.

universal is small, disney is large.
if disney goes that route of paying for the xpass, i don't see it as a problem.

 

[Colleen27]

It's all probably connected to a computer. The same number of FP's as usual, only now certain people can book in advance. Personally, I still don't see what's wrong with it. If you buy the XPass and book a FP in advance, then you were planning on getting a FP on the day you were in the park anyway. So what's the difference?

The devil will be in the details. How much impact Xpass has on the rest of us will depend entirely on how many they sell and how many FPs they allocate, both of which are completely unknown at this point. It could be that Disney will limit the passes fairly strictly and it won't make a difference. Or it could be that to make the system look like it is worth the money they'll make it very generous with the distribution, giving more passes than could be collected in a day. There's also the "easy" factor that will encourage Xpass guests to book "just in case" FPs - look what happened with ADRs: the online system made it so easy to book that double and triple booking for "flexibility" became a staple piece of Disney advice in many circles.

For example, we spent one full day and two partial days at Epcot on our last trip. We used the FP system on our full day but not on our partial days, because on the day we were there for dinner/evening EMH the FPs were all gone already and on the day we were just there for the morning for a YES class we knew we wouldn't be staying long enough to use any FPs we picked up. So we only got one set of FPs for Soarin' and Test Track over those three days, where if I'd been able to book them from home we'd have gotten three - one for each time we planned to be in the park.

Likewise, if you're able to pull multiple sets of FPs for the same ride in one day we'd likely use our entire allotment on Studios days just for TSM and just ride the other headliners standby, because at the times of year we go TSM is the only thing that builds up a long line. So again that's more FPs taken out of the general system than would be possible under the current method of distribution. And for days where we pop over to Fantasmic or evening EMH we'd book TSM FPs as well even though we'd never get them under the current system because it wouldn't be worth the trip over at rope drop to do so.

We'll have to wait and see how the system is implemented to know how much this will reduce existing FP capacity, but I'm thinking the scenarios above would be key to selling what is likely to be a rather pricey upgrade to already very expensive tickets, so Disney isn't likely to be heavy handed in setting limits on the new system. I suspect that it will become very much essential to park touring unless you can commit to being one of the first people in the park every morning or are okay with skipping or riding standby the popular attractions for which FPs already run out on a daily basis.

 

[crazycatlady]

While much of this conversation is speculative, reports have been consistent on a few things. There will be rigid enforcement of the existing FP system, which takes away flexibility that guests have enjoyed for years in order to push them towards the paid system. There will be more reserved viewing areas for evening shows, which takes premium viewing space away from the general public. And there will either be fewer FPs available to the general public/day guests in order to accommodate the new system or more FP being distributed overall at the expense of standby guests, with either change slowing down touring for people without the passes to accommodate those with them.

For a concrete example look back at some of the threads about Illuminations in Nov & Dec - the expansion of reserved viewing sections for guests who booked the Candlelight Processional dinner package caused many complaints about needing to stake out Illuminations viewing spots much further in advance and/or having to settle for obstructed views because so many of the ideal areas were set aside for those paying for the privilege. And that's just a few thousand guests per night, not the 15K+ that would be represented by all deluxe/DVC (cash) guests getting the same perk.

To me, club level or casino comps aren't a good comparison because those things don't detract from the experience given to the general public. This system is based around deliberately and significantly reducing the "free with admission" experience in order to create a new revenue stream.

I soooo agree with you!

 

[popsynic]

After doing extensive research over the weekend, I have come to believe "xPass" (or what may be "FASTPASS Plus") will be the road Disney travels on not the Premium FASTPASS. I found this "leaked" document on a small blog about Disney rumors. It was a PDF download so I converted it to a .jpg picture so it could be posted here.

After examining it, it appears to somewhat legitimate, but I've got my doubts. I don't think Disney would let something like this slip. Take a look and let me know what you think.

so fake!!! who uses the word 'advanced' in that context???

plus -

• Disney do not usually refer to their attractions as 'Rides', they call them all 'attractions' don't they? - so they wouldn't put 'Reserve Ride Times'
• Also They Do Not Usually Put Every Word in Every Sentence in Uppercase Do They? (as it makes a sentence harder to read)
• no space between 'to' and '190' (looks fishy??)

nice job - but fake, fake, and fake again

 

[torinsmom]

I'd feel a little differently if this didn't take the place of the regular fastpass, but was in addition to it. I know it would still limit the number of FPs available to those of us who cannot afford deluxe, but we would still have the chance to get them.

 

[DAZY3BYZ]

When Universal came first came out with their Express passes they were free to everyone, you could even choose alternate return times. Then the onsite hotels started coming online and there were fewer and fewer available for free. Then they started selling them to offsite guests and the free ones disappeared altogether; this was at Universal parks which aren't nearly as well attended as WDW during non-peak times. During peak summer times, if you don't make opening at UO, you are looking at major standby times at practically all attractions if you don't have express. Go stand by Guest Relations at around 1:00 pm at Universal on a busy summer day and listen to lots of angry customers demanding and often getting refunds because they've been in the park for hours and only gotten on one or two rides. I pray Disney does not go this route. The people who buy "normal" tickets are paying lots of money too (some of them up to $70+ per day if they buy single day tickets which you would probably be surprised at the number of which that Disney sells), especially those on limited budgets and don't deserve to have their experiences diminished so that others can have a better experience. I guess Disney can start marketing somewhat magical vs. extra magical experiences depending on which ticket you buy or where you're spending the night at.

I Soooo agree with this!! Our experience at Universal without Express was very frustrating. As a family of 5, we would have been paying an extra $50 per person for Express(something we couldn't justify). Instead we waited in monstrous lines..and we were there from opening... some rides we never could get on. I felt that their system was terribly unfair and created a lot of frustration. Express creates monster standby lines and if you can't afford to pay for express you're just out of luck. I remember thinking how glad I was that Disney had the FP system that was equally available to all so that everyone had the opportunity to have a wonderful experience. The rumored changes really make me nervous for those of us that can't afford to make our Disney cost even higher than it already is.

 

[eliza61]

For a concrete example look back at some of the threads about Illuminations in Nov & Dec - the expansion of reserved viewing sections for guests who booked the Candlelight Processional dinner package caused many complaints about needing to stake out Illuminations viewing spots much further in advance and/or having to settle for obstructed views because so many of the ideal areas were set aside for those paying for the privilege. And that's just a few thousand guests per night, not the 15K+ that would be represented by all deluxe/DVC (cash) guests getting the same perk.

To me, club level or casino comps aren't a good comparison because those things don't detract from the experience given to the general public. This system is based around deliberately and significantly reducing the "free with admission" experience in order to create a new revenue stream.

But that's not a concrete number. Ok let's look at 15K, that number would be, I'm assuming the number at 100% maximum occupancy over a week. rarely does deluxe reach 100% max. or at least according to disney they are averaging 85% occupancy at the deluxes. Next your also making the assumption that 100% of the deluxe/dvc guest will buy into any new premium pass. Once again the probability of this happening is really, really slim. I think the probabililty of 75% buying in is pretty optimistic. Here is where you're absolutely right, the devil will be in the details. For example Disney dining plan, although it's offered to everyone, this years prices are so outrageous that it's priced its self out for many. Would I pay for this pass at 80 a head extra? Maybe. would I pay for this pass at 150/head? NO way.

So now you've taken your 15K number and decreased it down to almost 9K. Now throw in the fact that this new number is now spread over various days, various times, and various parks and the probability of this causing a significant problem has decreased even more.

Now the problem with the candlelight dinner analogy is that the event is held in a very limited window of time "forcing" the guest to stake their claim earlier because you don't have the option of waiting 3 hours. Think of it as a 5 lane highway suddenly dropping down to 2 lanes, at the merger point you've got a traffic jam. That's what happen with Fantasmic, when the reduced the showings to 1 specific showing, you had massive problems because now the folks who had 7 days often 2 times a day to see the show were funneled to 1 time. Now with a premium fastpass in reality you wouldn't have that bottle neck. Whats the probability that 700 PFP owners will show up at TSM with in the same hour? pretty small.

 

[rt2dz]

I've worked in graphic design for over 30 years and happen to also have a Journalism degree. Most graphic designers are TERRIBLE with the grammar and text aspect when they first put out a prelim design. (That's one reason I have such a great business because I not only can design but I can write and edit with precision so very little proofing needed.) This looks just like what you would normally get for a prelim proof to get feedback from other corporate heads involved in the planning. It's a quick "throw it all in and see what others think" starting place probably after an initial document stating the basics of what information to put into the design (i.e. disclaimers, etc.) The fact that the length of time that this is good (whether a day or week) is additional proof that this is probably a working prelim. Novice designers rather think that "deep" when they are prepping a design for review.

It's funny that you say that. I worked in PR and that would look pretty standard for a "pitch." If we were told to come up with different ideas and see how it would look, you don't put your best work into it--95% of the time it's rejected. Most companies will pitch several ideas at once. You do give something that will give a general feel and then if it is approved, you work on finalizing things--price, exact rides, details of how long it is, etc (in this case).

I'm not sure if this is real or not. I have no idea where it came from to judge, but just from the looks of it, I wouldn't rule it out altogether either (or some version). I have a feeling if this is real, it was a pitch, and that is far from the final form. I'm also wondering if it will work like Tables in Wonderland--good for a year, but instead of good for up to 10 people, everyone will have to have their own and then it will still be based on availability.

I'm just sitting back and listening to all the rumors (mostly); just taking the wait and see approach.

 

[camandjacksmom]

So as Ive read on the biggest beef is that this new program would somehow take fastpasses away from guests who have chosen not to pay for the upgrade and I still dont buy it. I already get a fast pass and I bet my Xpass dollars that the rest of the people who buy into this program already use fastpass so.....our pass is just being transferred to a time of our choosing rather than being at the mercy of the machine. Same fast pass Im already pulling for free just with a time I choose. So with that being said how is this changing anything

 

[Colleen27]

But that's not a concrete number. Ok let's look at 15K, that number would be, I'm assuming the number at 100% maximum occupancy over a week. rarely does deluxe reach 100% max. or at least according to disney they are averaging 85% occupancy at the deluxes. Next your also making the assumption that 100% of the deluxe/dvc guest will buy into any new premium pass. Once again the probability of this happening is really, really slim. I think the probabililty of 75% buying in is pretty optimistic. Here is where you're absolutely right, the devil will be in the details. For example Disney dining plan, although it's offered to everyone, this years prices are so outrageous that it's priced its self out for many. Would I pay for this pass at 80 a head extra? Maybe. would I pay for this pass at 150/head? NO way.

So now you've taken your 15K number and decreased it down to almost 9K. Now throw in the fact that this new number is now spread over various days, various times, and various parks and the probability of this causing a significant problem has decreased even more.

Now the problem with the candlelight dinner analogy is that the event is held in a very limited window of time "forcing" the guest to stake their claim earlier because you don't have the option of waiting 3 hours. Think of it as a 5 lane highway suddenly dropping down to 2 lanes, at the merger point you've got a traffic jam. That's what happen with Fantasmic, when the reduced the showings to 1 specific showing, you had massive problems because now the folks who had 7 days often 2 times a day to see the show were funneled to 1 time. Now with a premium fastpass in reality you wouldn't have that bottle neck. Whats the probability that 700 PFP owners will show up at TSM with in the same hour? pretty small.

Actually, that 15K figure was deliberately low. The best numbers I could find in a quick Google is that Disney has just under 6000 deluxe resort rooms, most of which have a capacity of either 4 or 5, so total deluxe capacity is around 27,000. There are also nearly 4000 DVC villas that I'm not taking into account because I couldn't even hazard a guess as to how many of those are reserved with cash rather than points at any given time.

Using the mock-up/"leaked" document as a jumping off point, it appears the pass will be available to guests of lower-level resorts but at a higher price/less of a discount. That document also gives the impression that it could be an inclusion, rather than an upcharge, for those who stay deluxe. If either of those things holds true it is possible, even likely, that the average number of guests using the pass will be even greater than 15K on a daily basis. But even using your lower figure of 9000, that works out to a couple thousand people likely to be availing themselves of the preferred treatment in each park each day, which requires that Disney adjust both the current FP capacity and the blocked-off reserved viewing sections accordingly.

Or to look at it more simply, TSM only has capacity of about 1000 per hour. If there are 9000 people with Xpass on a given day, divided more or less evenly between the 4 parks, you're talking about 2+ hours of the ride's total daily capacity - 20% for much of the year - being unavailable to day guests before the gate even opens. It wouldn't take selling a whole lot of Xpasses to make riding those high-demand attractions ridiculously difficult for standby and non-Xpass guests. It isn't about them all jumping in line at one time; it is about reducing already insufficient supply by a large degree over the course of each and every day.

 

[DougEMG]

What would make me buy this advanced fast pass is if it was $50-80 per person, good for your length of stay and allowed you to book 1 advanced fast pass per hour.

 

[Mister Skellington]

Thats not the way this will likely play out. The cost will be MUCH higher than 50-80 for the length of your stay. It is more likely to be 50-80 per day!!!

I recently priced out a "VIP Ticket" for Islands of Adventure/Universal Studios.
This is a ONE day park to park ticket. It allows you front of line access ALL day at both parks.

I needed 3 tickets....
Total for the 3 tickets was $509.97
Then there was tax $33.15
and finally the processing fee 6.45
The whopping total for ONE day at the park for 3 people.........(Drumroll)
$549.57!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope Disney doesnt price like this.......

 

[MolonLabe]

I think the current system is good. Perhaps allowing the FP system to work on a smartphone but in the same fashion it does now, except you don't have to walk across the park to get a FP when you are eligible for one.

The premium pass being sold thing is a horrible idea. If you've been to most sixflags it is a disaster. It would be horrible.

+1 for being allowed to get FP's (under the current rules) on your phone. -1 for any other sort of change.

I personally think Disney's FP system is currently the best one in use at any park, any where. Hands down.

 

[DougEMG]

Thats not the way this will likely play out. The cost will be MUCH higher than 50-80 for the length of your stay. It is more likely to be 50-80 per day!!!

I recently priced out a "VIP Ticket" for Islands of Adventure/Universal Studios.
This is a ONE day park to park ticket. It allows you front of line access ALL day at both parks.

I needed 3 tickets....
Total for the 3 tickets was $509.97
Then there was tax $33.15
and finally the processing fee 6.45
The whopping total for ONE day at the park for 3 people.........(Drumroll)
$549.57!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope Disney doesnt price like this.......

For guests staying at Universal Hotels it is free and included as a perk with your room.

I had thought I had read that this advanced fast pass would initially or only be made available to guests staying at the Disney deluxe resorts.

 

[Colleen27]

I Soooo agree with this!! Our experience at Universal without Express was very frustrating. As a family of 5, we would have been paying an extra $50 per person for Express(something we couldn't justify). Instead we waited in monstrous lines..and we were there from opening... some rides we never could get on. I felt that their system was terribly unfair and created a lot of frustration. Express creates monster standby lines and if you can't afford to pay for express you're just out of luck. I remember thinking how glad I was that Disney had the FP system that was equally available to all so that everyone had the opportunity to have a wonderful experience. The rumored changes really make me nervous for those of us that can't afford to make our Disney cost even higher than it already is.

That's a big part of why we haven't done Universal yet - I won't do it unless we're staying on site. I have a relative who spends about 1/4 of the year in the Orlando area at her vacation home. Her condo is about halfway between Universal and Disney, but if she's planning on going into the Universal parks she gets a room for a night at one of their resorts to have the two days of FOTL. She says otherwise it is just too frustrating to be standing in long standby lines seeing the same people go past multiple times through the express queue, and by the time she pays for the (limited) express upgrade for herself and whichever kids/grandkids are with her she may as well just get a room to have the unlimited FOTL access.

 

[Mister Skellington]

For guests staying at Universal Hotels it is free and included as a perk with your room.

I had thought I had read that this advanced fast pass would initially or only be made available to guests staying at the Disney deluxe resorts.

I priced a night on site and it was actually slightly more once you bought the park tickets..... we already rented a house offsite for the week so the room would have sat empty anyway. It was more for giggles anyway.

 

[eliza61]

Does Universal have a regular fast pass system? b We've only done IofA a few times and not during busy seasons but we had no problems getting onto the rides. We'll probably go to see HP land the next time we do disney but I have no reference to the Universal system.

I think all of the worries about Universal is because other than the fotl pass that's it.
Hopefully disney would not do away with the regular fast pass so all guest would still have the option and availability to get a fast pass.

 

[Colleen27]

Does Universal have a regular fast pass system? b We've only done IofA a few times and not during busy seasons but we had no problems getting onto the rides. We'll probably go to see HP land the next time we do disney but I have no reference to the Universal system.

I think all of the worries about Universal is because other than the fotl pass that's it.
Hopefully disney would not do away with the regular fast pass so all guest would still have the option and availability to get a fast pass.

No. They did have an available-to-everyone system many years ago, but dismantled it as FOTL for resort guests and limited FOTL as a ticket add-on became available.

 

[doconeill]

Does Universal have a regular fast pass system? b We've only done IofA a few times and not during busy seasons but we had no problems getting onto the rides. We'll probably go to see HP land the next time we do disney but I have no reference to the Universal system.

I think all of the worries about Universal is because other than the fotl pass that's it.
Hopefully disney would not do away with the regular fast pass so all guest would still have the option and availability to get a fast pass.

Universal does not have a system like Fastpass. All options are paid for (be it included with the room or separately). The cheapest pay-for option is the Express Plus pass, which gets you one entry per participating attraction (and oddly enough, Forbidden Journey is not included). The VIP option and staying on site gets you unlimited access. No return times, nothing - just show up.

 

[dvcdisney]

Universal does not have a system like Fastpass. All options are paid for (be it included with the room or separately). The cheapest pay-for option is the Express Plus pass, which gets you one entry per participating attraction (and oddly enough, Forbidden Journey is not included). The VIP option and staying on site gets you unlimited access. No return times, nothing - just show up.

And since Disney wants guests to stay onsite, wouldn't this make sense for them as well? This is why, if we wanted to visit US, we would stay onsite as well. When we stayed there last year, we stayed at Portofino and walked over every day. Using FOTL, we found we had a much more relaxing vacation and did spend a little more time at the resort and the shopping areas.

I can empathize with those who are upset that Disney is offering this to onsite guest, but there is nothing wrong with the idea. It makes sense. You want to fill your resorts, you provide incentives. As mentioned, US had the express pass available to everyone and then discontinued it to give incentives to stay onsite. I just don't see why Disney wouldn't do this as well. I love Disney, but I can't see why they would not implement a program that will increase their profits, just because people may get upset. If you want to visit Disney, which if you love Disney, I don't think you can stay away (and that's what they are counting on), then you will either stay onsite to get the perks or pay for the perk (if that's an option) or change your touring plan to accomodate for longer wait times.

As a DVC member, I was upset when they offered Free Dining. Not only that I couldn't participate in it but also it would mean busier time during our Aug/Sep trips. I can complain all I want, but I still went. I changed my ADRs to try to avoid the busy restaurants. They used to only offer it during the low season beginning mid August (which is one of the times we go) and then they started offering it during some peak periods during Spring Break (which is the other time we go). It's frustrating and annoying, but I know they are just trying to fill the resorts. I was and still am upset, but we still go.

And if we stop going, there will still be others who go and there will be new families starting to go who will just get used to the way it is. Bottom line...they care about their bottom line. In order to continue being Disney, I want them to keep an eye on their bottom line, especially as a DVC member.

But again, they are still Disney and, I'm sure, they still care about the guests. So I would hope that there is a purpose to this. For instance, an incentive to stay onsite versus deciding to just make more money and charge everyone.