Would Natasha Richardson survived if she would have been in US?

[DawnCt1]

If she refused initial medical attention like she did in Canada the same thing would have happened no matter where she was....

That's an assumption that is impossible to make. The EMS was called to her room after she became symptomatic. They spent 30 minutes in her room. She was then taken to a hospital that wasn't equipped to deal with her problem. She was then transported to a hospital that had the capability, but alas, too late. It was at least 90 minutes between EMS first entering her room until arrival at the second hospital. Many feel, 90 critical minutes.

 

[crazee4mickey]

Plain and simple.....she initially refused treatment and by the time she decided she needed it may have already been too late----hindsight is a wonderful thing but not always viable such as a situation like this. Would have, could have, should have....

It ended very sadly for a beautiful young woman.

Unless you have first-hand experience of health care in Canada (not "I heard from..." or "I read...) please don't comment on what isn't right about our system---just as the US system surely has (and does) have its flaws.

I realize many don't care for our health care system but we hear the same about the US----the fact is she lost her life over an accident which seemed in the beginning so small but it has raised awareness at how easily a tramatic brain injury can occur.

 

[DawnCt1]

Plain and simple.....she initially refused treatment and by the time she decided she needed it may have already been too late----hindsight is a wonderful thing but not always viable such as a situation like this. Would have, could have, should have....

It ended very sadly for a beautiful young woman.

Unless you have first-hand experience of health care in Canada (not "I heard from..." or "I read...) please don't comment on what isn't right about our system---just as the US system surely has (and does) have its flaws.

I realize many don't care for our health care system but we hear the same about the US----the fact is she lost her life over an accident which seemed in the beginning so small but it has raised awareness at how easily a tramatic brain injury can occur.

You have drawn a conclusion about when her injury was survivable, and yet you are asking posters here, not to have an opinion and formulate a conclusion. Well, you have your opinion and we have ours. We don't have to agree, but we are still free to comment. The post wasn't about how easy it is to get a TBI, but whether or not it would be survivable in the USA.

 

[crashbb]

The post wasn't about how easy it is to get a TBI, but whether or not it would be survivable in the USA.

A question that is impossible to answer given all the possible variables.

 

[BCDisneyFanatic]

Hey, since we're making speculations without any real facts, I'm going to make a few.

Maybe the reason the paramedics were at her hotel room for thirty minutes is because she refused to leave until she had someone to watch her kids. Maybe she was trying to reach her husband and didn't want to go until she did (after all, if she was up and walking she very possibly didn't realize how serious her condition was).

Maybe Ms. Richardson insisted she be brought to the local clinic (not really a hospital, by the way) to get checked out, instead of being flown to Montreal. After all, she was still conscious, and maybe she was still in denial as to how serious her condition might have become. Her kids likely wouldn't have been able to ride with her in the helicopter, and how many of us would want to leave two very young teenagers unsupervised? There are so many variables we don't know. And probably never will.

As to drilling burr holes into a patients' head...hmmm, I'm thinking that most doctors wouldn't do that for fear of being sued unless they were fully qualified. As for a neurosurgeon being on call - I doubt there was a neurosurgeon living in that small town of 9000, so where do you think he would be coming from....well, Montreal of course! I agree that she should have been sent by Air Ambulance at that point...I'm not sure why she wasn't, especially since she had the funds to pay for it privately. Maybe the helicopters weren't availabe since they were already engaged for some other serious accidents in Quebec?

Of course, this is all speculation, just like everything else on this thread. We have very little validated information on what happened, and lots of people spinning the situation to meet their political agendas (but of course, not anyone on this thread, because that would be against board policy ).

 

[NEVERENOUGHWDW]

It happens everyday.....people refuse initial emergency services because "they are fine" & horrible outcomes occur.
If she initially went to the hospital her "condition"...well we'll never know but there is a much greater chance things would have turned out different.

 

[DawnCt1]

Hey, since we're making speculations without any real facts, I'm going to make a few.

Maybe the reason the paramedics were at her hotel room for thirty minutes is because she refused to leave until she had someone to watch her kids. Maybe she was trying to reach her husband and didn't want to go until she did (after all, if she was up and walking she very possibly didn't realize how serious her condition was).

Maybe Ms. Richardson insisted she be brought to the local clinic (not really a hospital, by the way) to get checked out, instead of being flown to Montreal. After all, she was still conscious, and maybe she was still in denial as to how serious her condition might have become. Her kids likely wouldn't have been able to ride with her in the helicopter, and how many of us would want to leave two very young teenagers unsupervised? There are so many variables we don't know. And probably never will.

As to drilling burr holes into a patients' head...hmmm, I'm thinking that most doctors wouldn't do that for fear of being sued unless they were fully qualified. As for a neurosurgeon being on call - I doubt there was a neurosurgeon living in that small town of 9000, so where do you think he would be coming from....well, Montreal of course! I agree that she should have been sent by Air Ambulance at that point...I'm not sure why she wasn't, especially since she had the funds to pay for it privately. Maybe the helicopters weren't availabe since they were already engaged for some other serious accidents in Quebec?

Of course, this is all speculation, just like everything else on this thread. We have very little validated information on what happened, and lots of people spinning the situation to meet their political agendas (but of course, not anyone on this thread, because that would be against board policy ).

She called EMS. Lets see, "leaving teenagers in a hotel room" or "seeking life saving care". Now that's a real dilemma. I will have to give that one some thought. She couldn't go in a helicopter because someone wasn't there to 'watch the kids'. Nope, I don't think so!

 

[NEVERENOUGHWDW]

She called EMS. Lets see, "leaving teenagers in a hotel room" or "seeking life saving care". Now that's a real dilemma. I will have to give that one some thought. She couldn't go in a helicopter because someone wasn't there to 'watch the kids'. Nope, I don't think so!

Please don't be so rude.
Laughing at someone's opinion is really uncalled for....There are so many variables....would a mother think of her kids first? I believe most would actually.

 

[damo]

Has anyone in the USA died from the same injury?

 

[DawnCt1]

Please don't be so rude.
Laughing at someone's opinion is really uncalled for....There are so many variables....would a mother think of her kids first? I believe most would actually.

Do you really think that EMS arrived in a vacuum? The hotel management not only had to know but no doubt assisted them to the room and offered whatever assistance was needed to the family. No doubt they would have assured her that her children would be safe and cared for and made contact with her husband or other family members. WDW does that in emergent situations as well.

 

[BCDisneyFanatic]

She called EMS. Lets see, "leaving teenagers in a hotel room" or "seeking life saving care". Now that's a real dilemma. I will have to give that one some thought. She couldn't go in a helicopter because someone wasn't there to 'watch the kids'. Nope, I don't think so!

Did she call EMS or did the person "observing" her. Maybe she started to develop a headache, mentioned it to the other person, and they insisted on calling EMS again. I can certainly see myself getting annoyed about that (especially if I wasn't thinking clearly), and refusing to go. Why do YOU think the EMS were in the hotel room for half an hour? Is my explanation any less plausible than any you can come up with?

As for "seeking life saving care"...again, you're assuming she realized how serious her condition actually was. She'd already refused medical care once. Perhaps she still didn't think it was that serious, but felt it should probably be checked out.

And as for the kids, as someone who actually lives in a foreign country, let me tell you that I absolutely would be worried about leaving them behind in a hotel room. This would be especially true if I didn't believe I was experiencing a true emergency.

 

[declansdad]

If she refused initial medical attention like she did in Canada the same thing would have happened no matter where she was....

That's an assumption that is impossible to make. The EMS was called to her room after she became symptomatic. They spent 30 minutes in her room. She was then taken to a hospital that wasn't equipped to deal with her problem. She was then transported to a hospital that had the capability, but alas, too late. It was at least 90 minutes between EMS first entering her room until arrival at the second hospital. Many feel, 90 critical minutes.

So if someone's assumtion doesn't agree with yours, it is impossible. Yet you have been able to say that she would have survived in the US.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

[DawnCt1]

Has anyone in the USA died from the same injury?

People die every day in the USA and no doubt someone died today from a head injury, and probably even an epidural hematoma. What does that have to do with this discussion?

 

[BCDisneyFanatic]

Do you really think that EMS arrived in a vacuum? The hotel management not only had to know but no doubt assisted them to the room and offered whatever assistance was needed to the family. No doubt they would have assured her that her children would be safe and cared for and made contact with her husband or other family members. WDW does that in emergent situations as well.

Perhaps they didn't. Perhaps the management was nowhere to be found. Maybe there was no one at the desk aware of the situation, and they didn't direct the EMTs to the proper room. Maybe her kids were panicking and she was trying to comfort them. I don't really know. Do you?

Why is it that you "have no doubt" that the hotel assisted Ms. Richardson in every way, but seem to insist that every step of her medical treatment was incompetent?

 

[DawnCt1]

So if someone's assumtion doesn't agree with yours, it is impossible. Yet you have been able to say that she would have survived in the US.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

She probably would have survived in Montreal had she been conscious on arrival. Are you saying that the 90 minute delay getting to Montreal or the fact that the smaller hospital didn't have the ability to treat her head injury, had no impact on the outcome?

 

[basketrn]

Most US hospitals have a CT scan. Many have a neurosurgeon on call. Most that didn't, would have had an emergency room physician who would have been able to drill burr holes.

In the ideal world this is true...but there are MANY small rural hospitals in the US that do not have neurosurgery access and have family practice MD's running the ED. I for one do not want a Family Practice or ED MD drilling burr holes in someone's head...as they are not trained to do this. Not to mention a CT scanner running 24 hours a day if they even have one. I have been a flight nurse for 5 years on a medical helicopter and prior to that worked in a level 1 trauma center in our area. You would be surprised on how many ED's are run by non ED trained physicians.

With a epidural head bleed, she had CLASSIC symptoms (in fact when I heard the news..I turned to my husband, also a flight paramedic, and we both said she had a epidural). By the time she started having sign of neurological changes, the damage was already beginning. She was too far away from someone that could do any type of intervention. The CT scanner wasn't going to save her life...the neurosurgeon was. You would be surprised how often this same scenario happens in the US!!

 

[Ember]

According to a recent WHO ranking of the world's healthcare systems, Canada placed 7 spots better than the US. I don't think she would have had a better chance at survival in the US.

Would I trade my health care for the Canadian system? Not a chance!

Well, I wouldn't trade my Canadian health care system for the US one. The 40% of the US population that is lacking adequate health care might prefer ours, too...

According to the Wikipedia comparison on the systems:

"Studies suggest that 40% of US citizens and 5% of Canadian citizens lack adequate access to health care.

A peer-reviewed comparison study of health care access in the two countries published in 2006 concluded that U.S. residents are one third less likely to have a regular medical doctor, one fourth more likely to have unmet health care needs, and are more than twice as likely to forgo needed medicines. The study noted that access problems "were particularly dire for the US uninsured." Those who lack insurance in the U.S. were much less satisfied, less likely to have seen a doctor, and more likely to have been unable to receive desired care than both Canadians and insured Americans."

Our drug prices are also lower: "The main difference is that patented drug prices in Canada average between 35% and 45% lower than in the United States."

Now, the Canadian system has problems, too. Our wait times are higher ("Studies by the Commonwealth Fund found that 24% of Canadians waited 4 hours or more in the emergency room, vs. 12% in the U.S.; 57% waited 4 weeks or more to see a specialist, vs. 23% in the U.S.") and our equipment is also behind the US ("it was found that Canada had 4.6 MRI scanners per million population while the U.S. had 19.5 per million. Canada's 10.3 CT scanners per million also ranked behind the U.S., which had 29.5 per million.[75] The study did not attempt to assess whether the difference in the number of MRI and CT scanners had any effect on the medical outcomes but did observe that MRI scanners are used more intensively in Canada than either the U.S. or Great Britain.").

So while both systems have problems, I would take the Canadian system any day.

Thanks to the posters who avoided Canada-bashing in their replies!

 

[TheZue]

Perhaps they didn't. Perhaps the management was nowhere to be found. Maybe there was no one at the desk aware of the situation, and they didn't direct the EMTs to the proper room. Maybe her kids were panicking and she was trying to comfort them. I don't really know. Do you?

Why is it that you "have no doubt" that the hotel assisted Ms. Richardson in every way, but seem to insist that every step of her medical treatment was incompetent?

I actually have a feeling that hotel was anything but helpful. They turned away the first ambulance before it reached her and they have stressed how the fall was ever so innocent. Maybe they thought everything was fine, or maybe they panicked at the idea they could get media swarming their resort. But really none of us know, just like none of us know what would have happened had she been in the US.

 

[LindaG4458]

My MIL, who's in the healthcare industry, (retired now) thinks she would have lived if this had happened in colorado or new hampshire or utah...

It all depends upon where you are in NH. We live in ski country. There is a small community hospital in the next town. Emergencies such as this must be airlifted to either Dartmouth in Hanover NH or a hospital in either Portland or Lewiston Maine.

Even in southern NH neurosurgeons are in short supply. My aunt recently had a stroke in Nashua, one of the larger cities on the Massachusetts border. There was no neurosurgeon anywhere in the southern part of the state; she had to be transported to Lawrence MA for treatment.

 

[DawnCt1]

Perhaps they didn't. Perhaps the management was nowhere to be found. Maybe there was no one at the desk aware of the situation, and they didn't direct the EMTs to the proper room. Maybe her kids were panicking and she was trying to comfort them. I don't really know. Do you?

Why is it that you "have no doubt" that the hotel assisted Ms. Richardson in every way, but seem to insist that every step of her medical treatment was incompetent?

I would assume that the hotel would have provided assistance because she is a paying guest, and a high profile paying guest, or which they are used to having. I have been in supermarkets during an emergency and the management assists the police, EMS and the family if there is one. That is a reasonable assumption.