Woman accuses Disney Cruise Lines entertainer of sexual assault

[sweetpee_1993]

Okay well I just wish I'd seen her punch him in the face twice. There's your good stuff right there.

 

[ahain]

There is nothing--nothing--a woman can do that would make her guilty or to blame in any way shape or form if a man rapes her. Nothing. Not walking naked down the street, not teasing a man, not saying she will have sex and then saying no at any point. And certainly not getting drunk in a man's presence. It makes me incredibly sad that anyone would say something like "he was wrong BUT she shouldn't have"...no. No. That's how we get police officers asking what girls were wearing when they were raped or how much they had to drink. It does. Not. Matter. Most (the vast majority of) men would never dream of raping a woman who was naked or drunk or flirting because they are decent human beings. When we imply a woman has a part in her rape (which is what some people are saying), we relegate men to helpless animals who can't control their sex drive. And that's insulting to men. I can't believe there is a decent man who would allow people to malign his entire sex that way.

I absolutely agree with what you are saying and am a firm believer that only "yes" means yes. However, we have no way of knowing whether or not, in her drunken stupor, she MAY have said "yes" and then sobered up a bit and had second thoughts - perhaps not recalling the "yes." the courts will decide whose version of the truth will prevail.

 

[Simba One]

A drunken person can not make a consent. Yes never means yes. That would be called rape.

 

[smiths02]

There is nothing--nothing--a woman can do that would make her guilty or to blame in any way shape or form if a man rapes her. Nothing. Not walking naked down the street, not teasing a man, not saying she will have sex and then saying no at any point. And certainly not getting drunk in a man's presence. It makes me incredibly sad that anyone would say something like "he was wrong BUT she shouldn't have"...no. No. That's how we get police officers asking what girls were wearing when they were raped or how much they had to drink. It does. Not. Matter. Most (the vast majority of) men would never dream of raping a woman who was naked or drunk or flirting because they are decent human beings. When we imply a woman has a part in her rape (which is what some people are saying), we relegate men to helpless animals who can't control their sex drive. And that's insulting to men. I can't believe there is a decent man who would allow people to malign his entire sex that way.

I agree with you, but we don't know if she consented or not. She says she did not. (I don't know if he says that she did.)
Some parts of the story would lead one to think that maybe she might be consenting...sharing a room, getting intoxicated with the individual, planning a vacation...
Other parts go along with what she said...punching him and running out of the room with a towel and immediately reporting the incident



You also have to recognize that people have a need to victim blame in order to distance themselves and be able to believe that it could not happen to them. I don't think this is just about rape victims. Burglary victims will be asked if they locked their doors, hid their valuables, etc. Even if my door was wide open with my iPhone and laptop in the doorway, someone should not come and steal it, but victim blaming will happen.

 

[SirDuff]

I absolutely agree with what you are saying and am a firm believer that only "yes" means yes. However, we have no way of knowing whether or not, in her drunken stupor, she MAY have said "yes" and then sobered up a bit and had second thoughts - perhaps not recalling the "yes." the courts will decide whose version of the truth will prevail.

Legally, the bolded is the only part that matters. Once drunk, her hypothetical "yes" would still not have counted as consent.

I agree with you, but we don't know if she consented or not. She says she did not. (I don't know if he says that she did.)
Some parts of the story would lead one to think that maybe she might be consenting...sharing a room, getting intoxicated with the individual, planning a vacation...
Other parts go along with what she said...punching him and running out of the room with a towel and immediately reporting the incident

Again, legally, none of those are considered consent.

 

[smiths02]

Legally, the bolded is the only part that matters. Once drunk, her hypothetical "yes" would still not have counted as consent.



Again, legally, none of those are considered consent.

I understand that, but if I am on a jury and she said she didn't consent and he said she did, the events and relationship prior and after the incident are going to have some determination on whether I believe there is a reasonable doubt

 

[Simba One]

Then I hope you never sit on a jury and I hope you never have this happen to someone in your family. A drunk person can not give consent. The law is the law no matter what happened before or after.

 

[dclpluto]

Of course we don't know about this case but the FBI says in rape only about 2 percent of the women are lying.

 

[kerry1379]

Once, in a store, my mom overheard two women talking. One said she wanted to get back at her ex. The other suggested she invite him over, sleep with him, and then claim rape. To have two women talk so openly and flippantly in the store about ruining someone's life makes me seriously wonder about that "2% of the women are lying" estimate. Which is horribly sad because it casts doubt on those that are telling the truth-and that isn't fair. But I think evidence MUST be present and proven before someone can be convicted of rape. I wish someone's word were enough but sadly, in this society, it is not.

 

[Adelle Dazeem]

Of course we don't know about this case but the FBI says in rape only about 2 percent of the women are lying.

Tell that to Patrick Kane of the Chicago Blackhawks. Over the summer, he was accused of rape. It was a circus. He was never arrested or charged with a crime after there was no evidence. He lost millions in endorsement deals based on her lies. Just about a month ago, some other girl posted on something like Livejournal.com that she was sexually assaulted by Kane last year in LA. It was proved that she was lying as well as the team plane had already left town when the alleged incident took place.

 

[Simba One]

Tell that to Patrick Kane of the Chicago Blackhawks. Over the summer, he was accused of rape. It was a circus. He was never arrested or charged with a crime after there was no evidence. He lost millions in endorsement deals based on her lies. Just about a month ago, some other girl posted on something like Livejournal.com that she was sexually assaulted by Kane last year in LA. It was proved that she was lying as well as the team plane had already left town when the alleged incident took place.

But she was in a drunken stuper, therefore she could not consent, therefore...rape. What's not to get?

 

[dclpluto]

Tell that to Patrick Kane of the Chicago Blackhawks. Over the summer, he was accused of rape. It was a circus. He was never arrested or charged with a crime after there was no evidence. He lost millions in endorsement deals based on her lies. Just about a month ago, some other girl posted on something like Livejournal.com that she was sexually assaulted by Kane last year in LA. It was proved that she was lying as well as the team plane had already left town when the alleged incident took place.

I imagine that rich people have a higher percentage of people lying saying they that they were raped by that person.Because of $$$$$$

 

[Adelle Dazeem]

But she was in a drunken stuper, therefore she could not consent, therefore...rape. What's not to get?

I'm just saying that I believe more than 2% of rape allegations are lies.

 

[Simba One]

I'm just saying, that's why it's hard to report a rape; because people will accuse you of being a liar out for money or fame. There is no winner here. This women in the "DIS" case isn't going to be a " winner" by making this up. So why lie about it? Why make a false allegation? What's the motive? Sad that you think victims are liars. Hope it never happens to you.

What percent would you " guess" are lies???

 

[tinkerone]

I'm just saying, that's why it's hard to report a rape; because people will accuse you of being a liar out for money or fame. There is no winner here. This women in the "DIS" case isn't going to be a " winner" by making this up. So why lie about it? Why make a false allegation? What's the motive? Sad that you think victims are liars. Hope it never happens to you.

What percent would you " guess" are lies???

I don't get why anyone would lie about it but it does happen. you can't say she has no motive so it can't be a lie, it could very well be a lie. she may have a motive we don't know about. not saying she does, just that she could have, we don't know.
I doubt this will be something solved on the dis boards, it will have to be left for the courts. I see both sides and while certain things should not be a factor they are. its human nature. and before anyone starts flaming me there have been factors brought up for his side and her side, i'm not saying one is right and the other is wrong. just that we should take a step back until the whole story comes out.

 

[Adelle Dazeem]

I'm just saying, that's why it's hard to report a rape; because people will accuse you of being a liar out for money or fame. There is no winner here. This women in the "DIS" case isn't going to be a " winner" by making this up. So why lie about it? Why make a false allegation? What's the motive? Sad that you think victims are liars. Hope it never happens to you.

What percent would you " guess" are lies???

I never said this woman was lying. All I said is that 2% of accusations being lies seems pretty low to me. People lie for all sorts of reasons - attention, sympathy, etc. I never once said that all victims are liars. I said the two accusers in the Patrick Kane case were proven to be liars. I don't appreciate your whole attitude towards me in saying that you hope it never happens to me. You don't know what has happened to me and whether or not I have been a victim of a sexual assault so don't go there.

 

[Ofinn]

But she was in a drunken stuper, therefore she could not consent, therefore...rape. What's not to get?

People do a lot of things when they are drunk that they wouldn't normally do. Consenting to have sex with someone, and then not remembering any of it is one of them. I can't tell you how many times I saw this when I was in college. How do you know you didn't consent if you were in a drunken stupor? Getting behind the wheel of a car is another. I have no idea what happened in this case, but I wouldn't rush to judgement for or against.

 

[SirDuff]

People do a lot of things when they are drunk that they wouldn't normally do. Consenting to have sex with someone, and then not remembering any of it is one of them. I can't tell you how many times I saw this when I was in college. How do you know you didn't consent if you were in a drunken stupor? Getting behind the wheel of a car is another. I have no idea what happened in this case, but I wouldn't rush to judgement for or against.

Because the law says so. You might not agree with it, but that's a different discussion. You cannot give consent to sex while drunk. Doesn't matter if you "yes" or "I consent" or "I want to have sex" or ..., you are not giving consent.

 

[Simba One]

I work for a college in student affairs and I am very well aware of the statistics on rape and lying. I know the law on rape and consent so don't lecture me on what they did in a drunken stupor. The law says a drunk can not consent. As far as lying for sympathy and attention, 2 percent is probably right. I hope you were not in this situation. Don't make light of it. It's not a joke. Do you have any idea how much more gets unreported due to shame and fear?

 

[Simba One]

Let's go back to said story.... Women wakes up with Freddy doing his thing, punches him and runs. That is not changing her mind later. She was asleep, finds him already in the act, no consent, she is drunk, punches and runs. Still not rape?