Woman accuses Disney Cruise Lines entertainer of sexual assault

[tinkerone]

Let's go back to said story.... Women wakes up with Freddy doing his thing, punches him and runs. That is not changing her mind later. She was asleep, finds him already in the act, no consent, she is drunk, punches and runs. Still not rape?

we have to go back to the original story, it gives her account of what happened but does not give any account of what he says. lets not throw him in jail just yet. news reports always, sad as it is, gives the side of any story that is sensationalized. he may have a completely different story of what happened. do we know for sure they did not have sex the night before? she says not, him we don't know about. did she really get drunk at epcot? she says yes, him we don't know about. did she really 'wake up' with him on her? she says yes, him we don't know about.
rape is nothing to joke about or make light of but we need the whole story before we can say for sure its rape. you can hang him when its a proven fact, for now lets stay with what has gotten our countries through the last hundred years....innocent until proven guilty.

 

[gumbypee]

So what if they are both drunk and both agree to have sex. Then both of them legally cannot have given consent, right? so they raped each other?

I am not trying to be a smart aleck, I am honestly curious why the man only is accused of rape if both were drunk, both agreed to sex drunk (this we don't know but hypotherical here) and then later may or may not regret?

 

[jeepnjudy]

Legally, the bolded is the only part that matters. Once drunk, her hypothetical "yes" would still not have counted as consent.



Again, legally, none of those are considered consent.

Ditto...Here's the law...

Florida Statute 794.011 Sexual battery.—

(a) “Consent” means intelligent, knowing, and voluntary consent and does not include coerced submission. “Consent” shall not be deemed or construed to mean the failure by the alleged victim to offer physical resistance to the offender.

(e) “Physically helpless” means unconscious, asleep, or for any other reason physically unable to communicate unwillingness to an act.

 

[MammaMoe48]

Hmm..

 

[Allison]

It really does.

For me, personally, if I were hanging out at a hotel with a guy who was offering me a free cruise, and if I were sharing a room and bed with him, and if I got really drunk all day long according to reports and he probably did too....I gotta say, I wouldn't be THAT surprised if I were woken at some point in the middle of the night. Not that a "yes" would be required, but I just wouldn't be surprised that a drunken half-asleep move was made. And I can't imagine calling the cops.

What do you mean not that a "yes" would be required?

 

[Expatriat]

What do you mean not that a "yes" would be required?

I can't speak for bumbershoot, but my own take on that statement (which certainly may differ from any or all) is that when adults are going to have sex, be it the first time for a couple or after many times, married or not, it is not common to ask or to verbally give permission. It is usually a natural progression of what is happening physically and (hopefully) emotionally with the two together. So saying "Yes" verbally is not generally required. You can give implied consent without actually saying "Yes." It sends the opposite message of if you were to push a man away or (great idea!) not be in his bed in the first place. Just my opinion so please don't flame me for it.

 

[Simba One]

Which is why more rape goes unreported. " The victim was obviously asking for it."

 

[FairestOfThemAll37]

We (the royal) need to re-evaluate how we view rape.

I hear so often, yes, we need to teach not to rape but woman shouldn't do things to put them at risk. This list goes from clothing to drinking now to being alone with a man and so on and so forth.

I saw something interesting on Facebook that basically said-if you're promoting that women change their behavior to prevent rape then you're basically saying "make sure he rapes the other girl"

The less sober girl, the less secure girl, the girl who has to walk home alone, the girl who lives in a bad neighborhood.

When you think about it that way, our approach is pretty messed up.

 

[gumbypee]

eh, never mind

but anyone have an answer to my question above?

 

[kerry1379]

We (the royal) need to re-evaluate how we view rape.

I hear so often, yes, we need to teach not to rape but woman shouldn't do things to put them at risk. This list goes from clothing to drinking now to being alone with a man and so on and so forth.

I saw something interesting on Facebook that basically said-if you're promoting that women change their behavior to prevent rape then you're basically saying "make sure he rapes the other girl"

The less sober girl, the less secure girl, the girl who has to walk home alone, the girl who lives in a bad neighborhood.

When you think about it that way, our approach is pretty messed up.

FairestOfThemAll, I agree. But this applies to pretty much all crimes. It is infinitely preferrable to teach all people to respect other people and their boundaries. Absolutely, no question. But since some people in society will purposefully NOT follow that rule, we also need to take measures to protect ourselves. In the case of getting robbed, I will try really hard to not be walking through an unfamiliar neighborhood, late at night, alone, with no protection. Please do not misunderstand me-if someone has to for whatever reason-they are not "asking to get robbed." Just like I don't think someone would be "asking to get raped." But that said, I think it is foolish to not try to make decisions to minimize that risk. And THAT said, it is still 100% the fault of the perpetrator.

 

[gumbypee]

Ditto...Here's the law...

Florida Statute 794.011 Sexual battery.—

(a) “Consent” means intelligent, knowing, and voluntary consent and does not include coerced submission. “Consent” shall not be deemed or construed to mean the failure by the alleged victim to offer physical resistance to the offender.

(e) “Physically helpless” means unconscious, asleep, or for any other reason physically unable to communicate unwillingness to an act.

Not to be difficult, but I don't get the whole "being drunk means you cannot give consent" from these. If I am drunk, I still know what is going on. my inhibitions are lowered but I am still aware. Not sure how to take this

 

[SirDuff]

So what if they are both drunk and both agree to have sex. Then both of them legally cannot have given consent, right? so they raped each other?

I am not trying to be a smart aleck, I am honestly curious why the man only is accused of rape if both were drunk, both agreed to sex drunk (this we don't know but hypotherical here) and then later may or may not regret?

To be honest, I'm not sure that any man has ever tried to "counter accuse". I know that his being drunk is not a valid defense against being accused of rape. However, that is not (as I understand it) your question. Based on the law, then, yes, I would assume that if a man were drunk then he could say that he didn't consent to sex and that he was raped. So, they'd both be an accuser and a defendant. Interesting question.

 

[kerry1379]

So what if they are both drunk and both agree to have sex. Then both of them legally cannot have given consent, right? so they raped each other?

I am not trying to be a smart aleck, I am honestly curious why the man only is accused of rape if both were drunk, both agreed to sex drunk (this we don't know but hypotherical here) and then later may or may not regret?

No idea. Actually, I would like to know what the law says about this too. And since bars are fairly popular hookup sites-I imagine this happens more than we know. (Actually, I have no idea since I don't drink and have never been to a bar. So obviously my opinion doesn't carry much weight in that regard.)

 

[FairestOfThemAll37]

No idea. Actually, I would like to know what the law says about this too. And since bars are fairly popular hookup sites-I imagine this happens more than we know.

The definition of rape in most states make it very difficult to bring rape cases against women. Most rape statutes use penetration as the defining characteristic.

 

[Ofinn]

Interesting discussion none the less. I guess we can agree to disagree.

Which is why more rape goes unreported. " The victim was obviously asking for it."

No I dont think anybody thinks that. I when alcohol is involved its really hard to know the facts. Even the alleged victim is not going to remember everything. There should be laws against stupidity.

 

[Simba One]

And when the victim can't remember, they can't consent.

An unconscious, drunk person doesn't want a cup of tea.

 

[Allison]

I can't speak for bumbershoot, but my own take on that statement (which certainly may differ from any or all) is that when adults are going to have sex, be it the first time for a couple or after many times, married or not, it is not common to ask or to verbally give permission. It is usually a natural progression of what is happening physically and (hopefully) emotionally with the two together. So saying "Yes" verbally is not generally required. You can give implied consent without actually saying "Yes." It sends the opposite message of if you were to push a man away or (great idea!) not be in his bed in the first place. Just my opinion so please don't flame me for it.

You can give implied consent without actually saying yes?

Legally?

Since I was asking a question based on someone's quote, i would like to hear from them.

 

[Simba One]

Only when you are sober and awake.

 

[Expatriat]

Since I was asking a question based on someone's quote, i would like to hear from them.

Oh, excuse me. I did not realize that it was wrong to comment on a post if one was not the person who was quoted. My apologies.

 

[Allison]

Oh, excuse me. I did not realize that it was wrong to comment on a post if one was not the person who was quoted. My apologies.

I asked them specifically what they meant by it. No one else can answer that for her.

I'm certainly open to hearing your answer to the question about implied consent.