Why is everyone so concerned with the new Poly tower

[Paul Stupin]

I guess we disagree here because after staying at the smaller rooms at VGF2, seeing the points required, and looking at the layout of the RIV rooms, I think there's a good chance the original poly studios are better. The reason same association would be great for me is that I could buy more poly points, and they would be direct.

It will be interesting to see what rooms categories are put in the new tower. If they are going to be different associations, I think there will have to be a ton of studios in the new tower because how would it look for those with brand new poly2 points to have studios all booked up, waiting for the 7 month mark to try to transfer into a stay at the resort they just bought into?

Yeah that wouldn’t be a good thing! That makes me think that DVD would design the tower with either more studios if it were a separate association, or less if it wasn’t. Considering that the designs are no doubt close to being finalized by now, if not finished already, makes sense that Disney might have already decided about Poly2’s association status.

 

[Paul Stupin]

As a non-PVB owner, this is exactly why we wouldn't buy if it is in the same association.

Me too.

 

[GoingSince1990]

To me as a Poly owner, this is why having the same association seems like an easier add-on sell for Disney. And I think since Poly is so big, they’re going to want to come to those owners for add-ons. I personally want to add-on to afford a bungalow at some point. But going from 20 points/night for a studio apartment to 140 points/night is a big stretch. With room types in-between, it makes that add-on much easier to sell long-term.

Good point. Many who love the Poly already own there and as many of their families have grown bigger would be prime targets for 1BR or 2BR. And as you point out the add-ons are a MUCH easier sell when it is the same association, and would avoid the complicated explanations of yes, you can buy in the new tower but no, you can't use your existing points there at 11 months, and that's even before they move on to explaining the differing resale restrictions for old/new points.

 

[BeachClub2014]

Good point. Many who love the Poly already own there and as many of their families have grown bigger would be prime targets for 1BR or 2BR. And as you point out the add-ons are a MUCH easier sell when it is the same association, and would avoid the complicated explanations of yes, you can buy in the new tower but no, you can't use your existing points there at 11 months, and that's even before they move on to explaining the differing resale restrictions for old/new points.

I can certainly appreciate that Poly Tower being in the same association as PVB would be a nice boon for current PVB owners, but I am not sure it would make it much easier to sell to non-PVB DVC owners. I tend to believe that it is far more an attractive proposition as a DVC owner to ONLY add on if it is a new association.

 

[Paul Stupin]

Good point. Many who love the Poly already own there and as many of their families have grown bigger would be prime targets for 1BR or 2BR. And as you point out the add-ons are a MUCH easier sell when it is the same association, and would avoid the complicated explanations of yes, you can buy in the new tower but no, you can't use your existing points there at 11 months, and that's even before they move on to explaining the differing resale restrictions for old/new points.

I would bet DVD has data regarding projected sales for both association options, taking into account both new and existing DVC owners, with the latter divided into subcategories of both Poly and non Poly owners. Of course, who the heck knows if it’s even close to being accurate, or what it’s telling them.

 

[Jlo85]

I can certainly appreciate that Poly Tower being in the same association as PVB would be a nice boon for current PVB owners, but I am not sure it would make it much easier to sell to non-PVB DVC owners. I tend to believe that it is far more an attractive proposition as a DVC owner to ONLY add on if it is a new association.

Why, just because of the bungalows? I know non-owners on this board don't like PVB, but not sure that's the consensus among all buyers. If PVB were actively selling today, I think it would sell.

PVB is also a pretty big association. And I tend to think they'll get more buyers at the Poly DVC kiosk than anywhere else.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I can certainly appreciate that Poly Tower being in the same association as PVB would be a nice boon for current PVB owners, but I am not sure it would make it much easier to sell to non-PVB DVC owners. I tend to believe that it is far more an attractive proposition as a DVC owner to ONLY add on if it is a new association.

As a currently-resale-only non-Poly member, I'll be buying 300 direct points but only if there are no resale restrictions. I don't care if that means existing association or new association with restrictions being abandoned entirely.

 

[GoingSince1990]

I can certainly appreciate that Poly Tower being in the same association as PVB would be a nice boon for current PVB owners, but I am not sure it would make it much easier to sell to non-PVB DVC owners. I tend to believe that it is far more an attractive proposition as a DVC owner to ONLY add on if it is a new association.

I guess there are arguments both ways. Some DVC owners who are eyeing the Poly might find access at 11 months to the existing studios and bungalows as well as the new tower, along with not having RIV style resale restrictions, to be strong selling points. Even if many may rarely stay in the bungalows, I'm sure the salespeople would love to be able to use those beautiful photos with the private plunge pools shimmering in the sunshine. But of course we have to wait and see. There was all kinds of speculation about what Disney should and should not do about the return of FP, much of which was strongly argued but turned out to be wrong.

 

[BeachClub2014]

Why, just because of the bungalows? I know non-owners on this board don't like PVB, but not sure that's the consensus among all buyers. If PVB were actively selling today, I think it would sell.

PVB is also a pretty big association. And I tend to think they'll get more buyers at the Poly DVC kiosk than anywhere else.

Really has nothing to do with the bungalows for us. I wouldn't want to have to compete with owners who control 4-million PVB points for one and two-bedroom units in the Tower. So far, that has been the primary reason stated for current PVB owners to want the Tower to be in the same association.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Why, just because of the bungalows? I know non-owners on this board don't like PVB, but not sure that's the consensus among all buyers. If PVB were actively selling today, I think it would sell.

PVB is also a pretty big association. And I tend to think they'll get more buyers at the Poly DVC kiosk than anywhere else.

Board members in the 300 to 1,000+ point camp tend to knock PVB for being Studio-only, ignoring the fact that most members are 150 to 200 pointers and are more than happy to cram 5 grown adults into what's essentially a standard hotel room.

 

[BeachClub2014]

As a currently-resale-only non-Poly member, I'll be buying 300 direct points but only if there are no resale restrictions. I don't care if that means existing association or new association with restrictions being abandoned entirely.

Cool. For your family, that decision is about restrictions. For us, the restrictions are irrelevant.

 

[BeachClub2014]

Board members in the 300 to 1,000+ point camp tend to knock PVB for being Studio-only, ignoring the fact that most members are 150 to 200 pointers and are more than happy to cram 5 grown adults into what's essentially a standard hotel room.

Not me, and I am in that category. I don't knock PVB, at all. I just prefer that the new Poly Tower be a new association.

 

[GoingSince1990]

As a currently-resale-only non-Poly member, I'll be buying 300 direct points but only if there are no resale restrictions. I don't care if that means existing association or new association with restrictions being abandoned entirely.

I share your aversion to RIV style resale restrictions. These restrictions make the points so much more valuable to Disney (who can resell them without restrictions) than anyone else, that at some point I would expect them to exercise ROFR on every resale, which in turn would cause the private resale market to dry up altogether, because why bother bidding on a contract if Disney will snatch it away anyway? Which in turn would lead to DVC becoming a lot less liquid and more like a traditional timeshare, where if you want out you are at the mercy of the developer.

 

[Jlo85]

Me personally I think this whole decision may rest less on resale restrictions and more on just basic questions of:

1. Is having two associations at the same resort actually a good idea? Was Copper Creek and Boulder Ridge actually a good model? I can't really answer that, but I think Disney probably can. My impression is that it was (and still is) rather confusing...
2. Are expansions the future? VGF2 was the first. If Disney can sell shorter contracts at premium prices, maybe that's the model going forward.

I think we tend to get bogged-down in how important resale restrictions are to Disney, but I think those 2 questions might be more front-of-mind. Who knows!

 

[BeachClub2014]

Me personally I think this whole decision may rest less on resale restrictions and more on just basic questions of:

1. Is having two associations at the same resort actually a good idea? Was Copper Creek and Boulder Ridge actually a good model? I can't really answer that, but I think Disney probably can. My impression is that it was (and still is) rather confusing...
2. Are expansions the future? VGF2 was the first. If Disney can sell shorter contracts at premium prices, maybe that's the model going forward.

I think we tend to get bogged-down in how important resale restrictions are to Disney, but I think those 2 questions might be more front-of-mind. Who knows!

Those are definitely great questions, and not sure that anyone here can answer them.

I do think the question of how committed DVC may be to the current model of restrictions is also a good one to ask.

 

[Paul Stupin]

As a currently-resale-only non-Poly member, I'll be buying 300 direct points but only if there are no resale restrictions. I don't care if that means existing association or new association with restrictions being abandoned entirely.

Are you concerned about long term resale value? If it’s a new association, and a beautiful resort (on the monorail route), and you don’t sell for years, I’d bet you’d do fine. At least I hope you would, because I’m rooting for a new association.

That said, if I bought Poly2, and DVD announced an entirely new resort on the other side of VGF, which is a surprise not completely out of the realm of possibility, I would wish I waited. But then that’s 7-10 years away. So maybe I wouldn’t wish I waited.

Decisions, decisions!

 

[Nursemanit]

I only own 100 resale @ Poly 1 ( My direct are at RR) So I will add on 75 resale to Poly1 if they make it separate associations. If it is the same association I will buy 175 direct and sell my 100 resale "washing my dirty points" for ease of use with my RR points. So in a way, I am the odd case where the same association will result in more points sold. I will still be staying in the longhouses either way as I go in the hot months so the short walk to TTC and the Bus, and the 400+ Sq feet studios will beat newer studios for me.

I also wonder if the bus stop will be an issue or if they will add a second bus stop for the expansion as the bus stop will be far from the tower.

 

[Sandisw]

Me personally I think this whole decision may rest less on resale restrictions and more on just basic questions of:

1. Is having two associations at the same resort actually a good idea? Was Copper Creek and Boulder Ridge actually a good model? I can't really answer that, but I think Disney probably can. My impression is that it was (and still is) rather confusing...
2. Are expansions the future? VGF2 was the first. If Disney can sell shorter contracts at premium prices, maybe that's the model going forward.

I think we tend to get bogged-down in how important resale restrictions are to Disney, but I think those 2 questions might be more front-of-mind. Who knows!

They are great questions, but the first one that has to be decided is restrictions...because you can only get restrictions if they make Poly tower a new association...

As I shared, if the purpose for those are to differentiate between resale and direct so direct points are good more places than resale or if the reason is to help slow down the resale market, your thoughts, to scoop up less expensive resorts, neither one works if you don't commit one way or the other to having them.

It was a very bold move for DVD when they did it in 2019 and to have done it, they had to have decided it was important.

Right now, with only RIV restricted, it has done nothing to depress the resale market in general in the almost 4 years since it was announced...and its not made direct sales jump above the averages either...so, with only one resort, its achieving neither or those goals.

I think we also have to remember that BPK would not be DVC right now had the pandemic not hit and the Reflections project scrapped. That was to be a joint DVC/cash resort and was slated for opening in 2022...that forced them to go back to the table and re-look at things.

I don't think Poly tower would have been yet in the making either if Reflections was still a go. So, that event has changed things up. I am not saying that a conversion of a GF building or the Poly tower were not on a long range list of projects...but no way either project would have been done or needed yet with that new DVC coming on board this year.

The other interesting piece one has to consider is what has happened with the BPK sales...the first few months sold tremendously well.. current owners buying there....but then the sales tumbled and now the majority of the buyers at both VGF and RIV are new buyers (which has always been their target audience)....so, it seems that is something they will have to look at as well when making a decision.

 

[Sandisw]

I only own 100 resale @ Poly 1 ( My direct are at RR) So I will add on 75 resale to Poly1 if they make it separate associations. If it is the same association I will buy 175 direct and sell my 100 resale "washing my dirty points" for ease of use with my RR points. So in a way, I am the odd case where the same association will result in more points sold. I will still be staying in the longhouses either way as I go in the hot months so the short walk to TTC and the Bus, and the 400+ Sq feet studios will beat newer studios for me.

I also wonder if the bus stop will be an issue or if they will add a second bus stop for the expansion as the bus stop will be far from the tower.

I think they will have to do something to adjust the transportation options there because it is a big increase in guests at the complex. I don't know the layout well enough to know if there is room but maybe have a bus pick up at the new tower and the buses stop at the current stop and then go the tower...like Jambo and Kidani...or, make a new bus stop there and have some buses go to the current stop and some go to the other one...you walk to the one that has buses going to the park that you want? Though that seems more difficult on guests than a Jambo/Kidani set up would.

One thing I'd be pretty confident about is Poly sharing buses with the Grand anymore...

 

[Sandisw]

Board members in the 300 to 1,000+ point camp tend to knock PVB for being Studio-only, ignoring the fact that most members are 150 to 200 pointers and are more than happy to cram 5 grown adults into what's essentially a standard hotel room.

Or maybe it is because owning at Poly isn’t really needed since getting rooms there is pretty easy most of the time?

Buying a studio only resort ..minus bungalows…when you know you may want the occasional chance or need to have access to a larger unit may just not make as much sense for some buyers.

I just do not think it’s related to the number of points owned…though Poly does give you a nice bang for your buck and good size for a sleep 5 room….it can be a great choice since it’s less expensive than VGF and BLT, which isn’t the same since it requires 5 in a one bedroom.