Why are Maintenance fee's different?

[Doctor P]

BCV does not have bus transportation to Epcot, nor does it have bus transportation to MGM/Disney Studios as I recall. Boats only to MGM; walking or boats to Epcot.

 

[Dean]

Dean,

Should members care which way DVC elects to handle this? I suspect that the law was designed to be neutral as to the members/owners. But if operating expenses and/or reserve estimates were less than expected then DVC would benefit because it would cover less than it would have if it simply paid the fees. Is that correct or am I missing something?

You can look at it two ways. If DVC pays dues on the points they own, the dues would be lower. With the current way, dues are a little higher but DVC acts as an insurance against a catastrophic event, like the hurricane. At least that's the way I read the statutes.

 

[disneynutt1225]

BCV does not have bus transportation to Epcot, nor does it have bus transportation to MGM/Disney Studios as I recall. Boats only to MGM; walking or boats to Epcot.

Is this new? Like I said, when we went in April, we caught busses to all the theme parks from BCV - including MGM and Epcot - in fact, it was the first time we had taken a bus to Epcot in a long time.

 

[Doctor P]

I think you must be mistaken. To the best of my knowledge there has never been bus transportation to Epcot from Boardwalk, Beach Club, Yacht Club, Swan, or Dolphin, or at least there hasn't been for many, many, many years.

 

[Montana Disney Fan]

I have been an SSR owner for two years now and have yet to stay there. I pay the lower annual fees but have stayed at BWV for 12 days and enjoyed it a lot. I've also stayed at OKW and to tell the truth, I like it a lot better than BWV due to the extra room, larger balconys, and lush landscape.

I don't get how I can own at SSR, pay lower annual dues, but can stay at the resorts that cost a lot more. I know I only get 7 months to book, but so far I've never had a hitch getting exactly what I want (granted, I've only booked 3 trips since becoming a member but still!).

 

[dianeschlicht]

I have been an SSR owner for two years now and have yet to stay there. I pay the lower annual fees but have stayed at BWV for 12 days and enjoyed it a lot. I've also stayed at OKW and to tell the truth, I like it a lot better than BWV due to the extra room, larger balconys, and lush landscape.

I don't get how I can own at SSR, pay lower annual dues, but can stay at the resorts that cost a lot more. I know I only get 7 months to book, but so far I've never had a hitch getting exactly what I want (granted, I've only booked 3 trips since becoming a member but still!).

That's the advantage of a vacation "club". Most timeshare clubs allow even exchanges within their own system, regardless of original costs and maintenance of each individual resort. Consider it a perk.

 

[Dean]

I have been an SSR owner for two years now and have yet to stay there. I pay the lower annual fees but have stayed at BWV for 12 days and enjoyed it a lot. I've also stayed at OKW and to tell the truth, I like it a lot better than BWV due to the extra room, larger balconys, and lush landscape.

I don't get how I can own at SSR, pay lower annual dues, but can stay at the resorts that cost a lot more. I know I only get 7 months to book, but so far I've never had a hitch getting exactly what I want (granted, I've only booked 3 trips since becoming a member but still!).

I agree with Diane. Remember you are not trading a value for a deluxe resort, we're talking minor variations in points costs and yearly dues when it comes to DVC. What would you say when I trade in through II for a total cost of around $500-600 cost to me and get a 1 or 2 BR at DVC for a full week.

 

[CarolMN]

..(snip).... What would you say when I trade in through II for a total cost of around $500-600 cost to me and get a 1 or 2 BR at DVC for a full week.

OK by me - as long as it isn't for something I couldn't get by calling at the 11 month window!

Best wishes -

 

[Disney Doll]

I would imagine the location of BCV, BWV, & VWL may somehow impact the costs as well.

We all know the real estate mantra...location, location, location.

 

[dianeschlicht]

I would imagine the location of BCV, BWV, & VWL may somehow impact the costs as well.

We all know the real estate mantra...location, location, location.

I don't buy that idea. It's all Disney property and SSR and OKW cover a lot of ground too, plus they aren't connected to another WDW hotel to help with that maintenance.

 

[tjkraz]

I would imagine the location of BCV, BWV, & VWL may somehow impact the costs as well.

How? Dues are tied to operating costs and that's about it. DVC cannot arbitrarily charge more to owners of those properties.

The reason for the differences is variations in service and accommodations offered, and the fact that fewer owners are covering fixed costs associated with managing the property.

Property taxes could be higher at one resort than another, but that's a drop in the bucket.

 

[spiceycat]

if there property taxes are more and I am pretty sure they are - then it is location.

BWV, BCV, VWL - all have extra services that OKW and SSR don't - valet parking, room service (which means not only paying for the people who deliver - but make the food 24 hours even if you don't use their service),

bcv - has SALB - it has many more lifeguards than the one at OKW and SSR

BWV and BCV has the boat service to Epcot and studios. this is a much bigger and better boat than the one at OKW and SSR - same is true with VWL to the MK. they all have a bigger arcade and gym (well bigger than OKW - not sure about SSR).

Location always makes a difference in the real estate business.

You can walk or boat to any theme parks from OKW or SSR.

okw didn't have elevators (maintence issues) until 62-64.

there are alot of extra costs with hotel style vs condo style.

 

[tjkraz]

if there property taxes are more and I am pretty sure they are - then it is location.

The difference is fractions of pennies per point. 2005 Estimated Property Tax:

OKW: $.8507
BWV: $.8546
VWL: $.8539
BCV: $.8363
SSR: $.7791

Location always makes a difference in the real estate business.

That's a pretty general statement, and I don't think it holds true in the manner that Disney Doll implied. If it were true that BWV, BCV and VWL dues were higher because of their location, then transplanting OKW to the site of BWV would result in higher dues at OKW. I don't see any justification for that.

Dues are higher because of all the other reasons listed (amenities, infrastructure, number of owners), not simply because of the physical location.

 

[PKS44]

IT is also possible that there is a mistake...let's not forget that two years ago I raised a bit of a stink about the difference in transportation charges between the BCV and the BWV which were way different...it turned out that somebody had forgotten to charge BCV to support the boat service....it is entirely possible that a similar mistake has led to some --but not all of the differences--we just have not found the problem yet...it does seem odd that BCV should have to pay so much more for management front desk and housekeeping... as compared to OKW...maybe because it is so small that the costs cannot be spread out...but I would think as a small resort the housekeeping needs, the front desk needs and the management needs would be proportionally smaller? or is it that a manager's salary is the pretty much the same whether he manages 200 or 500 units....that certainly could be the case...A letter to DVC Finance will certainly be answered...mine was. --and by the way expect the transportation charges at BWV and BCV to undergo further tweaking as they still did not have it right this last year...I look forward to reviewing the next budget to see if they finally have rectified the situation-financially anyway---from trip reports I am reading it sounds like the transportation by buses from BWV still leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[KAMLEM]

PKS44-

Please see my post earlier in this thread. Do you know how they account for these things? It sounds like you're on top of the budget so I thought you may have asked these questions already. Thanks.

 

[tjkraz]

I can answer this one: " I wonder how they account for the fact that all DVC resorts have some percentage of cash customers so we shouldn't have to pay 100% of these types of expenses."

AFAIK cash guests only get into DVC resorts two ways:

1. DVC members using their points for an option OTHER than a DVC resort stay (like a cruise or DL room.) In this case, dues are still paid on the points by the member. The points are turned over to DVC, who changes the points into available room nights. DVC then keeps the proceeds if they are able to rent-out a room using those points. That's their compensation for facilitating the non-DVC point trade.

2. 60 days prior to check-in all unbooked DVC rooms are made available to the general public. If any reservations are made under these circumstances, the money actually goes back into the resort budget as a credit to members. It appears on the budget as "Breakage."

DVC maintains ownership of about 4% at each resort. But that is to be used for maintenance purposes only--not to allow cash guests to book.

 

[Dean]

As for the small residual portion owned by DVC, I've never heard a statement of how that is handled or what it is intended for. Obviously there needs to be some residual for maintenance. With traditional timeshares it's usually one week or roughly 2%. It would makes sense with with a more flexible points system one could get by with a little less cushion than a fixed week system. I've also never seen anything official about how many points DVC tries to keep. But I can tell you that DVC does rent out their ownership as well at times and not just the developer undeclared inventory like SSR.

Dues are only location specific as it applies to the direct costs, taxes, transportation and the like. But indirectly they are more. Consider that the "destination resorts" require more points for a week. Thus you have to pay more up front (buy more points at higher prices) and then pay dues on a larger number of points every year. Thus if BCV is 20% higher in dues per point and 20% higher in the number of points for the same week and unit size, the dues are a LOT more, roughly 40% higher.

Looking at it that way HH has the cheapest points followed by OKW and BCV and VWL the most by far. Of course this assumes you would stay at your home resort.

 

[PKS44]

I would love to know what the basis is for allocating costs for things such as the front desk, valet, transportation, etc., between DVC and Disney for places like BCV where DVC and non-DVC share things such as these. For that matter, I wonder how they account for the fact that all DVC resorts have some percentage of cash customers so we shouldn't have to pay 100% of these types of expenses. I must really sound like a geek but I have always wondered about these kinds of things. Wish I knew someone who worked in Disney Finance.

Well for something like transportation--which is the subject I have the most information about--they charge each DVC proportionate to how big it is compared to the whole resort...for example...BWV is about 58% of the Boardwalk Resort--so 58% of the costs for transportation of the Resort are passed on to DVC....BCV is about 19% of the YC/BC resort so 19% of the cost is passed to DVC...I would assume it would be similar for the other shared costs BUT assumptions are not always correct...

It is this proportional sharing of costs that led to my most recent dispute with DVC and Disney because they do not proportionally split the transportation budget between resorts only within the resorts....which makes it both unfair and illogical....Disney apparently agreed that this was indeed the case and the next budget is supposed to reflect a more consistent PROPORTIONAL distribution of the transportation costs...i.e bigger resorts will pay a bigger part of the transportation (since they use it proportionally more and then the cost per guest regardless of where they are staying will be more equal--a bus ride for a BCV guest will cost that guest the same as a bus ride for the BWV guest.)

 

[JimC]

... What would you say when I trade in through II for a total cost of around $500-600 cost to me and get a 1 or 2 BR at DVC for a full week.

Very smart use of timeshare