What would you have done?

[dvcgirl67]

I think that ship sailed and sunk before the pandemic tbh - there is no more “we” anymore - everything has become an excuse to identify the “they”. Whether science, government, or otherwise, it’s become an opportunity to justify more selfishness and hate.

I think the pandemic intensified it. When it got to the point where the powers that be put a radiologist in charge of our pandemic response....and some of my fellow Americans were taking the advice of Joe Rogan over epidemiologists....we hit peak stupid, and I just can't....with any of that.

 

[PezRuth]

The side effect profile in real-life is much worse than the benefit for most people. Have you not seen the many people having major side effects with this shot? If you are only using mainstream media, you won't. It's probably why booster uptake is so low. I know many who say they will never take another covid shot.

Again this is anecdotal evidence but everyone in my circle has received the vaccine and boosters and no one in this group has had any major side effects. We will all be getting the updated booster in the fall.

 

[ronandannette]

Again this is anecdotal evidence but everyone in my circle has received the vaccine and boosters and no one in this group has had any major side effects. We will all be getting the updated booster in the fall.

Just reading this morning about various vaccine updates aimed at the current strain. They are anticipated to be available next month. Moderna and Pfizer’s are versions of the mRNA. A third, conventional protein-based vaccine, Novava, is apparently also coming to market. If I do take another vaccine, it will be that one and I watch with great interest to see efficacy studies.

 

[PezRuth]

Just reading this morning about various vaccine updates aimed at the current strain. They are anticipated to be available next month. Moderna and Pfizer’s are versions of the mRNA. A third, conventional protein-based vaccine, Novava, is apparently also coming to market. If I do take another vaccine, it will be that one and I watch with great interest to see efficacy studies.

Thanks for sharing that. That is interesting. I will talk to my doctor and get her advice.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Just reading this morning about various vaccine updates aimed at the current strain. They are anticipated to be available next month. Moderna and Pfizer’s are versions of the mRNA. A third, conventional protein-based vaccine, Novava, is apparently also coming to market. If I do take another vaccine, it will be that one and I watch with great interest to see efficacy studies.

I think you mean the Noravax vaccine. That's been out a bit over a year. It's a different technology than the mRNA vaccines. It will also be available as a booster this fall.

Here's a link that explains the three different vaccines...and how they work.

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-19-vaccine-comparison

 

[ronandannette]

I think you mean the Noravax vaccine. That's been out a bit over a year. It's a different technology than the mRNA vaccines. It will also be available as a booster this fall.

Here's a link that explains the three different vaccines...and how they work.

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-19-vaccine-comparison

Stupid autocorrect...

In Canada it is called Novavax. I have read those explanations and have a decent layman’s understanding of the differences. Interestingly, myocarditis is listed as a possible rare side-effect (6 cases documented in a trial of 40,000), but isn’t for the mRNA vaccines. Myocarditis in young and otherwise healthy individuals is one of the most significant concerns I’ve heard from those who are mRNA wary.
https://www.canada.ca/en/health-can...ugs-vaccines-treatments/vaccines/novavax.html

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/clinical-considerations/myocarditis.html

 

[leahgoogle]

It’s confusing that you don’t trust the CDC… until you do.

The CDC said this…late in 2021…when most of us were vaccinated and/or had been infected. They were talking about the course of the infection….being mild in most people…because they had protection.

I don't trust them, but most others on here do. Hence why I clarified if one gets their information from them.

 

[disneychrista]

Just reading this morning about various vaccine updates aimed at the current strain. They are anticipated to be available next month. Moderna and Pfizer’s are versions of the mRNA. A third, conventional protein-based vaccine, Novava, is apparently also coming to market. If I do take another vaccine, it will be that one and I watch with great interest to see efficacy studies.

Do you know if the Noravax is updating to cover the newer Omicron variants? Because the article posted says it only offers protection for the original strains (Delta?)

 

[tink2424]

I said it's a research tool not a diagnostic tool. You can't diagnose someone passed away from a heart condition due to a vaccine by pointing to VAERS which is what the PP did. A poster did say it was self-reported and then I pointed out that V-Safe was as well but I did not say it didn't count.

_________
In truth how you approach vaccines (not just covid) has been well-discussed and evident in the past. There's multiple things I can point to in your comments that are a product of this. How can I discuss natural immunity for example any more than I have when you are under the impression that the CDC said you flat out don't get it as opposed to saying something different (such as the efficacy, length and strength of it)? Even the common cold gives you natural immunity but the length of it is very short and there are many strains of it. I hope you understand that I'm not trying to be rude but it does make it hard to actually flesh out the topics. I hope you understand that I'm not trying to be rude but it does make it hard to actually flesh out the topics given where I know you stand on things. Probably best to move on I would think

Your position is also well documented. Does that mean that you should stop posting your position? This is very condescending and you can feel free to ignore me if that makes you happy.

When has anyone, CDC included, said that prior infection provides NO immunity? I've seen data on infection vs. vaccine with regards to effectiveness and length of protection, but I've never seen anywhere say previous infection provided no immunity whatsoever.

Yeah, that didn't statement didn't hold up too well. Other posters have showed where this was stated. And some wonder why I don't take anything the CDC says seriously... They have been wrong about just about everything.

I do have the knowledge of the pros can cons of the situation and make my healthcare decisions accordingly.

All that is saying....is that you can get covid again if you've had it previously, same as you can get the flu multiple times. Trust me, the physicians and scientists at the CDC are aware that an infection would convey a level of immunity......it's literally virology 101. They talked about this nonstop through the pandemic.

Another big thing is nobody knows the long term effects of long covid.

All medications, no matter how they are delivered, have the potential for side effects. These vaccines have been out now for nearly 2 years and has an excellent safety record for such an incredibly fast uptake.

I think you have to understand how public health works. They are trying to *safely* deliver immunity as quickly as they can in a controlled manner. Public health officials would prefer that you receive a vaccine that they are highly confident delivers immunity in a safe manner. When someone gets the virus itself, especially someone who is older or younger and compromised in some way.....your body is going to have to fight back the virus on its own. Not all people survive that process. Many, many more of those people do....if they receive the vaccine and not the virus.

81% of the U.S population has received at least one dose of the vaccine. This is why, with a covid wave, like we're experiencing now, covid hospitalizations have risen by 20%, but deaths are still the lowest they've been since the beginning of the pandemic. That's because our older population....received the vaccine.

You should be far more concerned about long covid than any side effects from the vaccine. The mRNA vaccine does not stay in your body.....it doesn't even enter your cells, it simply teaches your immune system to recognize SARS COV2, and exits. This is a fact....we know this. It liiterally instructs our immune system how to fight it....without our bodies going into a full-force immune response that many with diminished immune systems can't survive.

But...you're never going to try and understand the science behind it. You've made up your mind, which is fine. Your use of the term "main stream media" tells me that you have a deep mistrust in our government. Conspiracy theories are all the rage these days. But what you're spreading is disinformation. And this kind of thinking may harm you in the future....because you may need lots of different medications as you age, and now you have a genuine distrust in science. I was a critical care nurse for over a decade, and I trust doctors and science. So...we're not likely to agree on any of this. Which is fine of course....it's what makes the world go around.

I seriously question if you are following the same pandemic & government response as the rest of us are. You are very wrong about the "science" and other posters have showed you where you are wrong and you just completely double down. The "vaccine" absolutely enters your cells - how do you think your body makes the spike protein for you to gain immunity to?? Additionally, the MRA does not break down as quick as they have stated. There are studies that have showed the spike protein still being produced months later & the spike protein is being found in organs where it shouldn't be. They have LIED time and time again so please just stop. If you are okay with the potential unknowns because to you they outway the risk of long COVID - then good for you. But don't pretend that we haven't been lied to and sold a bunch of goods that are wrong.

 

[leahgoogle]

Yes, I understand that Omicron caused less severe illness individual to individual. But another series of mutations made Omicron the most transmissible virus and so it spread much faster than any variants before it. And so it was just as deadly....because a slightly weaker, yet more transmissible virus reaches many more people.

And if those people are unvaccinated, older and vaccinated...but didn't get a booster in the fall of 22 like many of us did, or just old and weak....they died in massive numbers. So, my point is that while Omicron did not make people as sick as the original strain did....it would have been just as deadly, probably more so than the original strain because it would have gone around the world in lightning speed due to it's transmissibility.

From the original strain, Alpha was 40% more likely to cause severe disease and Delta twice as much as Alpha....and both were equally as transmissible as the original strain. Just because Omicron had slightly less severe disease, it doesn't mean that the next variant won't revert back to a virus that causes disease as severe as Delta. We're 4 years in.....and a long, long way from "the sniffles".

Still pushing the unvaccinated died in massive numbers in 2022, no less

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Your position is also well documented. Does that mean that you should stop posting your position? This is very condescending and you can feel free to ignore me if that makes you happy.

What position is that that you think I have? I honestly don't think you remember exactly who I am or what I said or else you wouldn't be saying that in truth. Feel free to PM to remind me of what position you think I have.

I tried to be respectful in my comments. You've posted disinformation in the past, used sources that are not credible at all, are still posting disinformation. I have tried to even converse with you here but then you say stuff that is not accurate, I ask for proof and you don't provide that. You'll post something that is twisted all up. I had to repeat several times about what was said about VAERS for example. I didn't say you should stop commenting, I said it made it difficult to discuss and flesh out. And it does and most especially on the DIS here. So I suggested that it might be best to move on (in which case I meant between you and I if that wasn't clear).

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Stupid autocorrect...

In Canada it is called Novavax. I have read those explanations and have a decent layman’s understanding of the differences. Interestingly, myocarditis is listed as a possible rare side-effect (6 cases documented in a trial of 40,000), but isn’t for the mRNA vaccines. Myocarditis in young and otherwise healthy individuals is one of the most significant concerns I’ve heard from those who are mRNA wary.
https://www.canada.ca/en/health-can...ugs-vaccines-treatments/vaccines/novavax.html

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/clinical-considerations/myocarditis.html

J&J was the vaccine pulled due to the myocarditis concerns. It was also not an mRNA vaccine but rather built off a more traditional vaccine.

 

[Disneychick13]

You should be far more concerned about long covid than any side effects from the vaccine. The mRNA vaccine does not stay in your body.....it doesn't even enter your cells, it simply teaches your immune system to recognize SARS COV2, and exits. This is a fact....we know this. It liiterally instructs our immune system how to fight it....without our bodies going into a full-force immune response that many with diminished immune systems can't survive.

But...you're never going to try and understand the science behind it. You've made up your mind, which is fine. Your use of the term "main stream media" tells me that you have a deep mistrust in our government. Conspiracy theories are all the rage these days. But what you're spreading is disinformation. And this kind of thinking may harm you in the future....because you may need lots of different medications as you age, and now you have a genuine distrust in science. I was a critical care nurse for over a decade, and I trust doctors and science. So...we're not likely to agree on any of this. Which is fine of course....it's what makes the world go around.

Just a clarification….of course the mRNA enters your cells. That is middle school biology level science. There is no other way for this to work. It’s pretty basic protein synthesis. From the CDC:

• After vaccination, the mRNA will enter the muscle cells. Once inside, they use the cells’ machinery to produce a harmless piece of what is called the spike protein. The spike protein is found on the surface of the virus that causes COVID-19. After the protein piece is made, our cells break down the mRNA and remove it, leaving the body as waste.

The mRNA does break down pretty fast. The spike proteins last at least for weeks. There are studies that suggest that the spike protein might be responsible for those myocarditis cases in boys/young men. That‘s why those cases occur very soon after getting the 2nd shot. https://www.nature.com/articles/s44161-023-00222-0 and
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10010664/

 

[tink2424]

What position is that that you think I have? I honestly don't think you remember exactly who I am or what I said or else you wouldn't be saying that in truth. Feel free to PM to remind me of what position you think I have.

I tried to be respectful in my comments. You've posted disinformation in the past, used sources that are not credible at all, are still posting disinformation. I have tried to even converse with you here but then you say stuff that is not accurate, I ask for proof and you don't provide that. You'll post something that is twisted all up. I had to repeat several times about what was said about VAERS for example. I didn't say you should stop commenting, I said it made it difficult to discuss and flesh out. And it does and most especially on the DIS here. So I suggested that it might be best to move on (in which case I meant between you and I if that wasn't clear).

You're position is that what the media says is the truth & is not lying to us.

I have used all sorts of sources for information but apparently if it isn't from the CDC or the mainstream media it is automatically false.

And no, you don't understand VAERS. The point is there are OVER 1 MILLION events reported to VAERS for the COVID vaccines and it has been understood that less than 10% of events are ever reported. The next closest vaccine with events is the ZOSTER vaccine with ~114,000 events. That is CRAZY!! So even though you can't 100% go by all of those being serious or even 100% related that is a crazy number. It goes to show they aren't as safe as claimed.

In the past this would have been a crazy safety signal for the FDA and the vaccines would have been pulled from the market. The closest one I can remember in the recent past would be the swine flu vaccine that killed a bunch of people that was pulled.

You have to look at this as a clue that something is not right and we should be studying these vaccines more instead of covering up the issues.

 

[dvcgirl67]

And no, you don't understand VAERS. The point is there are OVER 1 MILLION events reported to VAERS for the COVID vaccines and it has been understood that less than 10% of events are ever reported. The next closest vaccine with events is the ZOSTER vaccine with ~114,000 events. That is CRAZY!! So even though you can't 100% go by all of those being serious or even 100% related that is a crazy number. It goes to show they aren't as safe as claimed.

And the VAERS is very misleading in this instance because it's been misused for plenty of small side effects that most of us experienced when receiving the vaccine. Also....none of the reports are verified. Don't you think it a bit odd that all of you who are anti-vax seem to know loads of people who *died* from the vaccine. And the grand majority of us, who received the vaccine....do not? Coincidence? I think not.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Just a clarification….of course the mRNA enters your cells. That is middle school biology level science. There is no other way for this to work. It’s pretty basic protein synthesis.

Correct....I misspoke, I meant the nucleus....were the DNA is....because that was a big online rumor, that these vaccines would change our DNA.

 

[Disneychick13]

You're position is that what the media says is the truth & is not lying to us.

I have used all sorts of sources for information but apparently if it isn't from the CDC or the mainstream media it is automatically false.

And no, you don't understand VAERS. The point is there are OVER 1 MILLION events reported to VAERS for the COVID vaccines and it has been understood that less than 10% of events are ever reported. The next closest vaccine with events is the ZOSTER vaccine with ~114,000 events. That is CRAZY!! So even though you can't 100% go by all of those being serious or even 100% related that is a crazy number. It goes to show they aren't as safe as claimed.

In the past this would have been a crazy safety signal for the FDA and the vaccines would have been pulled from the market. The closest one I can remember in the recent past would be the swine flu vaccine that killed a bunch of people that was pulled.

You have to look at this as a clue that something is not right and we should be studying these vaccines more instead of covering up the issues.

Keep in mind that there are some reasonable explanations as to why there are so many VAERS reported events for the Covid vaccine. One of them is that so many people never even heard of it to have even submitted a report for it (I will admit that I never heard of it before). Another thing is that, because this was a new vaccine developed using a new method that was released under emergency authorization that it was very much being scrutinized like no other vaccine has been before (I mean except when vaccines were first introduced). I‘m not saying it’s still not a lot of adverse events but that fact doesn’t automatically mean there that the vaccine is dangerous.

And the VAERS is very misleading in this instance because it's been misused for plenty of small side effects that most of us experienced when receiving the vaccine. Also....none of the reports are verified. Don't you think it a bit odd that all of you who are anti-vax seem to know loads of people who *died* from the vaccine. And the grand majority of us, who received the vaccine....do not? Coincidence? I think not.

Reporting small side effects isn‘t misusing the system I don’t think. I mean I wouldn’t have reported fever and body aches but maybe some people thought things were more significant than I do. I also don’t want to discount when people say they know someone that died from the vaccine or had serious side effects. I know someone that had a close relative die very shortly after getting the 2nd shot and it did seem very suspicious because of how she died. I don’t know enough about it to give an opinion one way or another but it did seem highly suspect. I assume it was reported. Was her death caused by the vaccine? Who knows but I wouldn’t rule it out. We know that this virus causes clotting issues. It stands to reason that (if the spike protein is responsible for the clotting issues) the vaccine (which will produce this spike protein) could in theory also cause clotting issues. So if someone dies with clotting issues less than 2 weeks after getting the Covid vaccine that can’t help but be suspicious. Maybe it’s just a matter of perception though. What one person (who’s a vaccine skeptic) thinks of as an adverse event another person thinks of as old age or ”well that person did have some health issues”. I don’t know the answers. I don’t think it’s a big conspiracy but I’m also not 100% happy with how governmental agencies have handled all of this.

 

[DisneyOma]

Well, sure--using the stealth modified definition of vaccine after the CDC realized that the vaccine didn't fully protect against COVID.

"Before September 1, 2021, the CDC defined a vaccine as “A product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from that disease” (emphasis added). Now, however, the CDC states a vaccine is merely “A preparation that is used to stimulate the body’s immune response against diseases” (emphasis added).

Vaccination was previously defined as “The act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease,” but currently it is simply “The act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce protection from a specific disease” (emphasis added)."

(Source of quote John Locke Foundation; edited to correct typo)

Well, yeah, as scientists better understand immune responses and other body systems, etc, definitions can change. Were vaccines ever declared 100% effective from preventing a disease? I always thought (and was taught in college) that it was part of the herd immunity - most people wouldn't get the disease, some people would get a mild version, a few rare people wouldn't get any protection at all. I remember learning about it in 8th grade as well, back in the 1970's.

 

[Moliphino]

Yeah, that didn't statement didn't hold up too well. Other posters have showed where this was stated. And some wonder why I don't take anything the CDC says seriously... They have been wrong about just about everything.

? Nobody posted anything where the CDC said prior infection doesn't provide immunity. They posted a quote they misinterpreted to mean that, but didn't really.

The CDC DID say having COVID didn't provide immunity. See its 8/14/2020 press release entitled, “Updated Isolation Guidance Does Not Imply Immunity to COVID-19.”

From the release: “On August 3, 2020, CDC updated its isolation guidance based on the latest science about COVID-19 showing that people can continue to test positive for up to 3 months after diagnosis and not be infectious to others.” The media release continued by saying, “Contrary to media reporting today, this science does not imply a person is immune to reinfection with SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, in the 3 months following infection.”

Bold added.

The bolded just says that continuing to test positive does not mean you can't catch the virus again within 3 months of infection. It does not say you received no immunity at all from infection. It doesn't look like immunity was even being investigated for this particular study - they were only looking at if people who continued to test positive for months were still contagious.

 

[ronandannette]

Do you know if the Noravax is updating to cover the newer Omicron variants? Because the article posted says it only offers protection for the original strains (Delta?)

Yes, and scheduled to become available in September around the same time as the updated Moderna and Pfizer products.
https://www.reuters.com/business/he...ows-response-against-eris-variant-2023-08-22/