What would you have done?

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Keep in mind that there are some reasonable explanations as to why there are so many VAERS reported events for the Covid vaccine. One of them is that so many people never even heard of it to have even submitted a report for it (I will admit that I never heard of it before). Another thing is that, because this was a new vaccine developed using a new method that was released under emergency authorization that it was very much being scrutinized like no other vaccine has been before (I mean except when vaccines were first introduced). I‘m not saying it’s still not a lot of adverse events but that fact doesn’t automatically mean there that the vaccine is dangerous.

Agreed on all points. And to add to that the additional component of V-Safe here was beneficial and I'm glad they created it for covid given how the vaccine was en masse being given out, maybe this could be used for future vaccines given to such large amount of people. V-Safe could direct people who may not have been familiar with VAERS to it should their side effect necessitate that. And it gave even quicker feedback to the CDC in a simple way.

My only critique on v-safe was right when I got a dose them texting me the next day asking what side effects I had. Because I had Pfizer for all 3 doses which typically has side effects appear the same day that timing could have been better on them. And I personally didn't hold back telling them how I was feeling what I was feeling and inputting information if they didn't have a spot for it.

They also long-term contacted you.

• I had the normal daily check-ins after each dose for 7 days I want to say
• Additional ones then were spaced out
  • 6 weeks after 2nd dose a check in
  • 2 1/2 months after my 2nd dose a check in
  • 5 1/2 months after my 2nd dose a check in
    • A day later from that asking if I received another dose (which would have been my booster)
• When I updated to say I got my booster a month and a half later it reset the daily check in texts
  • Then a week and a half after my booster I got a check in which followed every week for 6 weeks (once a week)
  • 3 months after my booster another check in
  • 6 months after my booster another check in
  • 1 year after my booster another check in (which was 1 year 8 months after my first dose)
• Last communication was December 2022 advising that data collected from V-safe had been used in more than 20 studies with a link to go to webpages for that.

The longer check ins were for both side effects as well as asking if you had a test confirmed positive case.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Reporting small side effects isn‘t misusing the system I don’t think. I mean I wouldn’t have reported fever and body aches but maybe some people thought things were more significant than I do. I also don’t want to discount when people say they know someone that died from the vaccine or had serious side effects. I know someone that had a close relative die very shortly after getting the 2nd shot and it did seem very suspicious because of how she died. I don’t know enough about it to give an opinion one way or another but it did seem highly suspect. I assume it was reported. Was her death caused by the vaccine? Who knows but I wouldn’t rule it out. We know that this virus causes clotting issues. It stands to reason that (if the spike protein is responsible for the clotting issues) the vaccine (which will produce this spike protein) could in theory also cause clotting issues. So if someone dies with clotting issues less than 2 weeks after getting the Covid vaccine that can’t help but be suspicious. Maybe it’s just a matter of perception though. What one person (who’s a vaccine skeptic) thinks of as an adverse event another person thinks of as old age or ”well that person did have some health issues”. I don’t know the answers. I don’t think it’s a big conspiracy but I’m also not 100% happy with how governmental agencies have handled all of this.

I don't know anyone who reported fever or body aches, which I've had (and many people I know have had)....every time I've received a covid vaccine or booster. We were told to expect that ahead of time I suspect that's the grand majority of those reports. I've never experienced that with the flu vaccine and was always told I could...but it was rare. With the mRNA vaccines, I knew going in.

Also, having a response like that means that you're likely to mount a good response to the virus. The older people in my life, like our parents....all four had the vaccine, only two are still with us (none died of covid). The youngest of the four, my mother, at 78, had mild aches and fatigue. My father and MIL...the sickest of the two who have since passed, had no side effects at all. My father in law, who is a healthy 92...a sore arm. Why the diminished response? Diminished immunity. But thankfully good enough for them to fight the virus. None got covid before the vaccine, but all survived covid with the vaccine. My father was stage 4 lung disease at that point, with months to live. He got covid...in the hospital....and it did not kill him. None of us could believe it. He died months later from his disease. My MIL got covid 2 weeks before she died, cleared the disease....and passed. Her covid may have weakened her a bit, but covid was not listed on her death certificate....they gave her remdesivir, and she cleared the virus before she passed....tested negative.

My husband and I mid-50s and healthy....have had pretty much the same response every time....not fun, but what we were told to expect. Why would I report that?

I believe that people do know of some family, friends, acquaintances....who died around the time of the vaccine. But as a former critical care nurse, obviously....people pass suddenly all of the time for a plethora of reasons. And if you're someone who is skeptical, anti-vax....etc, I think it's easy to jump to that conclusion. There are very few deaths from the vaccine that are verified to have been the cause of death.

I don't claim to have all of the answers either, but I am sure that the turn against vaccines and public health in this country is doing harm. Child vaccines are still way down from where they should be....more religious exemptions....all of that stuff. And the next pandemic....forget it.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I don't know anyone who reported fever or body aches, which I've had (and many people I know have had)....every time I've received a covid vaccine or booster.

I think that's where V-Safe was more the stepping stone. Fever and aches should have been reported via V-Safe, that's the more appropriate avenue. But an allergic reaction would def. be VAERS.

I agree with the misuse but would probably just put it as not fully understanding what qualifies for VAERS since most probably hadn't dealt with it before. People can look up what type of side effects that would qualify for multitude of vaccines.

The CDC's table of VAERS hasn't been updated since 2017 so it wouldn't have included covid but aches and fever are not the side effects that would qualify for it (neither are listed in any vaccine on their table). I think one could make a case if it caused someone to need to seek medical attention due to the fever or aches.

With the mRNA vaccines, I knew going in.

We did and yet we didn't. There were a few things that happened with me that either it wasn't mentioned or unknown. Cycle disruption was one and my swollen lymph nodes for my 2nd dose and booster stuck around a lot longer than they originally reported. I think nausea was mentioned but I was not prepared for how strong and long lasting (12 hours) it would be.

 

[dvcgirl67]

I think that's where V-Safe was more the stepping stone. Fever and aches should have been reported via V-Safe, that's the more appropriate avenue. But an allergic reaction would def. be VAERS.

I agree with the misuse but would probably just put it as not fully understanding what qualifies for VAERS since most probably hadn't dealt with it before. People can look up what type of side effects that would qualify for multitude of vaccines.

The CDC's table of VAERS hasn't been updated since 2017 so it wouldn't have included covid but aches and fever are not the side effects that would qualify for it (neither are listed in any vaccine on their table). I think one could make a case if it caused someone to need to seek medical attention due to the fever or aches.


We did and yet we didn't. There were a few things that happened with me that either it wasn't mentioned or unknown. Cycle disruption was one and my swollen lymph nodes for my 2nd dose and booster stuck around a lot longer than they originally reported. I think nausea was mentioned but I was not prepared for how strong and long lasting (12 hours) it would be.

The lymph node in the armpit on the side where I received my injection was swollen, but that was a symptom listed on the information sheet we received. It did go down as my symptoms did though. I may have reported it had it lasted beyond my other symptoms, but it didn't. The only thing that lingered more than a day was a slightly sore arm. We didn't have nausea, but we weren't super hungry either. Mostly, felt like a very mild flu...for 24 hours, and then it was gone....each time.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The lymph node in the armpit on the side where I received my injection was swollen, but that was a symptom listed on the information sheet we received. It did go down as my symptoms did though. I may have reported it had it lasted beyond my other symptoms, but it didn't. The only thing that lingered more than a day was a slightly sore arm. We didn't have nausea, but we weren't super hungry either. Mostly, felt like a very mild flu...for 24 hours, and then it was gone....each time.

But what I said it lasted for longer than had been reported as in many months later for me personally. Remember when they were telling women to hold off on mammograms for X number of weeks? Yeah that part. I don't believe they said to delay those too far beyond, I'm saying mine lasted a lot longer than had been generally reported and I didn't say the length of mine was all that common but I was saying it was something they were not really reporting as having lasting that long. That information I passed onto V-safe every time they asked for an update.

 

[dvcgirl67]

But what I said it lasted for longer than had been reported as in many months later for me personally. Remember when they were telling women to hold off on mammograms for X number of weeks? Yeah that part. I don't believe they said to delay those too far beyond, I'm saying mine lasted a lot longer than had been generally reported and I didn't say the length of mine was all that common but I was saying it was something they were not really reporting as having lasting that long. That information I passed onto V-safe every time they asked for an update.

I would have definitely reported that...no question.

 

[tink2424]

And the VAERS is very misleading in this instance because it's been misused for plenty of small side effects that most of us experienced when receiving the vaccine. Also....none of the reports are verified. Don't you think it a bit odd that all of you who are anti-vax seem to know loads of people who *died* from the vaccine. And the grand majority of us, who received the vaccine....do not? Coincidence? I think not.

There is no misuse of the system. You can report any and all symptoms. Just like in a clinical trial all symptoms should be reported and then symptoms that occur in 2% or more of subjects are part of the risk profile.

VAERS is a surveillance tool that can clue the government into what is going on with each vaccine. It is horribly underused and in the case of COVID should have been used more. Per the VAERS website "The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) is a national early warning system to detect possible safety problems in vaccines used in the United States. "

And no I don't think it is coincidence just like I don't think it is a coincidence that many of you have had friends or family die from COVID. I know of no one that was even hospitalized and certainly not died of COVID. It just didn't affect me or anyone I know of. That is just anecdotal evidence.

Keep in mind that there are some reasonable explanations as to why there are so many VAERS reported events for the Covid vaccine. One of them is that so many people never even heard of it to have even submitted a report for it (I will admit that I never heard of it before). Another thing is that, because this was a new vaccine developed using a new method that was released under emergency authorization that it was very much being scrutinized like no other vaccine has been before (I mean except when vaccines were first introduced). I‘m not saying it’s still not a lot of adverse events but that fact doesn’t automatically mean there that the vaccine is dangerous.

There are also some bad explanations for why there are so many reported events. The system should be an early warning system for more investigation. There has been so much covered up by the CDC and the media that that is why so many have distrust for the CDC as well as big pharma.

I don't know anyone who reported fever or body aches, which I've had (and many people I know have had)....every time I've received a covid vaccine or booster. We were told to expect that ahead of time I suspect that's the grand majority of those reports. I've never experienced that with the flu vaccine and was always told I could...but it was rare. With the mRNA vaccines, I knew going in.

Also, having a response like that means that you're likely to mount a good response to the virus. The older people in my life, like our parents....all four had the vaccine, only two are still with us (none died of covid). The youngest of the four, my mother, at 78, had mild aches and fatigue. My father and MIL...the sickest of the two who have since passed, had no side effects at all. My father in law, who is a healthy 92...a sore arm. Why the diminished response? Diminished immunity. But thankfully good enough for them to fight the virus. None got covid before the vaccine, but all survived covid with the vaccine. My father was stage 4 lung disease at that point, with months to live. He got covid...in the hospital....and it did not kill him. None of us could believe it. He died months later from his disease. My MIL got covid 2 weeks before she died, cleared the disease....and passed. Her covid may have weakened her a bit, but covid was not listed on her death certificate....they gave her remdesivir, and she cleared the virus before she passed....tested negative.

The VAERS system is down right now but I will try to pull a report tomorrow. I doubt all the events are minor. It seems that you just want to downplay that the risks may be higher for the COVID vaccine and that it may not be a safe as claimed.

 

[dvcgirl67]

There is no misuse of the system. You can report any and all symptoms. Just like in a clinical trial all symptoms should be reported and then symptoms that occur in 2% or more of subjects are part of the risk profile.

VAERS is a surveillance tool that can clue the government into what is going on with each vaccine. It is horribly underused and in the case of COVID should have been used more. Per the VAERS website "The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) is a national early warning system to detect possible safety problems in vaccines used in the United States. "

And no I don't think it is coincidence just like I don't think it is a coincidence that many of you have had friends or family die from COVID. I know of no one that was even hospitalized and certainly not died of COVID. It just didn't affect me or anyone I know of. That is just anecdotal evidence.

There are also some bad explanations for why there are so many reported events. The system should be an early warning system for more investigation. There has been so much covered up by the CDC and the media that that is why so many have distrust for the CDC as well as big pharma.

The VAERS system is down right now but I will try to pull a report tomorrow. I doubt all the events are minor. It seems that you just want to downplay that the risks may be higher for the COVID vaccine and that it may not be a safe as claimed.

VAERS is a self reporting tool to catch the most serious of side effects. When you use language like “so much covered up by the CDC”… it’s saying a lot. That’s conspiratorial thinking.

I didn’t lose anyone close to me from covid, The older people were all vaccinated before being exposed. Others got it and fought it off. But my parents and in-laws lost friends. In my town alone we lost dozens of nursing home residents to covid. And you just need to talk to a nurse or doctor who worked on a covid floor….there are many documentaries you can watch from that time. My sister in law lost many patients to covid…not all of them older. I’m in NJ, so we got the brunt of that first wave.

So… unless you think we had a huge jump
In excess deaths before the vaccine…all over the world….how exactly do you think all of those people died?

 

[tink2424]

I don't know anyone who reported fever or body aches, which I've had (and many people I know have had)....every time I've received a covid vaccine or booster. We were told to expect that ahead of time I suspect that's the grand majority of those reports. I've never experienced that with the flu vaccine and was always told I could...but it was rare. With the mRNA vaccines, I knew going in.

Here is a table generated from VAERS data from the COVID vaccines. A lot of the events reported are serious requiring hospitalization or a visit to a doctor. I would say those are more than minor.

The "None of the above" you would have to dig into more details but there are a lot of events to go through.

 

[tink2424]

VAERS is a self reporting tool to catch the most serious of side effects. When you use language like “so much covered up by the CDC”… it’s saying a lot. That’s conspiratorial thinking.

I didn’t lose anyone close to me from covid, The older people were all vaccinated before being exposed. Others got it and fought it off. But my parents and in-laws lost friends. In my town alone we lost dozens of nursing home residents to covid. And you just need to talk to a nurse or doctor who worked on a covid floor….there are many documentaries you can watch from that time. My sister in law lost many patients to covid…not all of them older. I’m in NJ, so we got the brunt of that first wave.

So… unless you think we had a huge jump
In excess deaths before the vaccine…all over the world….how exactly do you think all of those people died?

Yes, I think that our government is lying to us because they have admitted that they have. We have a bunch of examples from COVID first with masks aren't necessary then going to if you are vaccinated you can't get sick or spread COVID.

I don't look at what the CDC says I look at the studies that they cite (if they bother to cite data) and make a determination from there. I am looking at the science, not the scientist.

And I lived in NJ at the time of COVID and I didn't know anyone beyond myself that even had COVID. No one I know lost any friends or family members and I was in Union County which at one point was top 5 in the country for cases and deaths.

I'm not saying COVID wasn't a problem or that it didn't cause deaths. I just disagree with how it was managed and what health officials told us. When you have to censor people who have alternate opinions like the government did then it tells me that we aren't being told everything.

 

[mjkacmom]

Yes, I think that our government is lying to us because they have admitted that they have. We have a bunch of examples from COVID first with masks aren't necessary then going to if you are vaccinated you can't get sick or spread COVID.

I don't look at what the CDC says I look at the studies that they cite (if they bother to cite data) and make a determination from there. I am looking at the science, not the scientist.

And I lived in NJ at the time of COVID and I didn't know anyone beyond myself that even had COVID. No one I know lost any friends or family members and I was in Union County which at one point was top 5 in the country for cases and deaths.

I'm not saying COVID wasn't a problem or that it didn't cause deaths. I just disagree with how it was managed and what health officials told us. When you have to censor people who have alternate opinions like the government did then it tells me that we aren't being told everything.

I’m in Essex, 85 deaths in my town, I only personally knew 4 of them (a friend’s ex husband, daughter went to HS with my kids), my parents’ physician (I had just seen him a month earlier), our head librarian, and a HS friend (50, funeral home family business, too much contact with Covid victims). My parents doctor had many elderly patients. The vast majority of friends and family got Covid before there were vaccines. My daughter’s friend went to the ER with appendicitis and received iv antibiotics and was sent home, no room for her. I can’t possibly understand how things could’ve been vastly different in union county.

 

[tink2424]

I’m in Essex, 85 deaths in my town, I only personally knew 4 of them (a friend’s ex husband, daughter went to HS with my kids), my parents’ physician (I had just seen him a month earlier), our head librarian, and a HS friend (50, funeral home family business, too much contact with Covid victims). My parents doctor had many elderly patients. The vast majority of friends and family got Covid before there were vaccines. My daughter’s friend went to the ER with appendicitis and received iv antibiotics and was sent home, no room for her. I can’t possibly understand how things could’ve been vastly different in union county.

They may not have been but I just didn't know anyone. I only say this because I do know people harmed by the vaccines and a few that have died. Just because someone doesn't experience it doesn't mean it isn't happening.

I believe that deaths happened with COVID (I don't believe the total is accurate but I'm sure the real number is still terrible enough) but I just didn't experience it at all. So if I believe that deaths happen from COVID I don't know why people can't believe that deaths and lots of other nasty side effects could be happening with the vaccines. We know that no medicine is appropriate for all people.

 

[dvcgirl67]

They may not have been but I just didn't know anyone. I only say this because I do know people harmed by the vaccines and a few that have died. Just because someone doesn't experience it doesn't mean it isn't happening.

The people that you know…who you believe died from the vaccine. Did they die suddenly from anaphylaxis? Or days/weeks later? And what symptoms did they have? Were they young…older, completely healthy or with pre-existing conditions?

 

[mjkacmom]

93% of NJ residents have had at least one Covid vaccine, so I think it’s more difficult to figure out if the vaccines killed them. We know that during Covid, way more people died in that time period than normal, and fewer people are dying today.

 

[CdnCarrie]

How reliable is something that a non verified, self reporting tool? I would not be putting much faith into that.

 

[Disneychick13]

The people that you know…who you believe died from the vaccine. Did they die suddenly from anaphylaxis? Or days/weeks later? And what symptoms did they have? Were they young…older, completely healthy or with pre-existing conditions?

So the weeks/days later (and I don’t know if that’s what you are implying) does not rule out a death/adverse event being related to the vaccine. In the data related to myocarditis most of the people affected were within about a week after getting the (2nd)vaccine. Which makes sense if it is the spike protein involved because the body (cells) have to actually make the spike protein. These would not be events that would have happened immediately or even within hours after inoculation. One of the reasons (I presume) that is was easier to tie these myocarditis events in young people was that this population isn’t subject to the things you mentioned (old age/pre-existing conditions) so it’s so much easier to compare the rate of myocarditis in this age group (traditionally) with the rate in this cohort of individuals (that had just received the Covid vaccine). When you are dealing with older individuals that probably have some subset of health issues and are much more likely to die suddenly from heart attack/stroke/etc, it has got to be a lot harder to see causality from the vaccine and an adverse health event. I’m not saying that every older person who dies within 2 weeks of getting a Covid shot died from it, but you can certainly see how not only would in be suspicious but also hard to prove any kind of causality especially in an older individual.

 

[leahgoogle]

How reliable is something that a non verified, self reporting tool? I would not be putting much faith into that.

VAERS is co-managed by the CDC and the FDA. It was created to monitor adverse events. These agencies are suppose to investigate major self-reported adverse events to assess the safety of new vaccines. I don't put much faith into that these agencies are doing what they are suppose to be doing with the warning system they created.

 

[CdnCarrie]

VAERS is co-managed by the CDC and the FDA. It was created to monitor adverse events. These agencies are suppose to investigate major self-reported adverse events to assess the safety of new vaccines. I don't put much faith into that these agencies are doing what they are suppose to be doing with the warning system they created.

I would be concerned that anti vaxers with agendas are putting false information in there.

 

[scrapquitler]

Hi,

Just wanted to get your opinions on what you would have possibly done in this situation. Friday night, I went out some of my co-workers. This morning, one of my co-workers called me and told me she is very sick with the Covid (she tested positive this morning). Today, I was supposed to go to one my close friend’s birthday party. I told my friends in the group what happened and they all still wanted to me to come (so far I feel ok and tested negative with an at home test), but I went with my judgement and decided to stay home. It costed me a little money as I contributed towards the party, but I didn’t want to take any chances. What would you have done?

Thanks as always.

I would have stayed home from the party.

 

[tink2424]

The people that you know…who you believe died from the vaccine. Did they die suddenly from anaphylaxis? Or days/weeks later? And what symptoms did they have? Were they young…older, completely healthy or with pre-existing conditions?

They were all cardiovascular events. What made them point to the vaccine is that both people had just had cardio work ups that showed no blockages or any clotting issues. The autopsies found large clots & that is a know side effect of the spike protein vaccines. I had a third person that had a heart attack but was able to get treatment in time. All persons were in their 30s or 40s.

93% of NJ residents have had at least one Covid vaccine, so I think it’s more difficult to figure out if the vaccines killed them. We know that during Covid, way more people died in that time period than normal, and fewer people are dying today.

It's true that fewer are dying from COVID today but excess deaths are still up from other causes. See this article that talks about excess deaths and COVID. https://brownstone.org/articles/deaths/

How reliable is something that a non verified, self reporting tool? I would not be putting much faith into that.

Then why would they set-up the database at all if it wasn't useful? A lot of what is reported is reported by healthcare workers.

Also, do you realize how the safety profile for a drug/vaccine is created? It is created by self reported side effects to the study doctor who then records them in the study database. Any side effect that occurs in 2% or more of patients is attributed to the drug/vaccine. That is how this database should be used as well since even in controlled clinical studies you cannot be sure if a side effect is due to the drug or not. That is why it is assumed that if it occurs in 2% or more of the population it is likely due to the drug/vaccine.

I would be concerned that anti vaxers with agendas are putting false information in there.

What false information is being put out? These are facts that have been glossed over or outright lied about by our public health officials. They have finally admitted about myocarditis so it isn't too far of a leap to wonder if they are covering up anything else.