Well, it's happening, can't get VWL or BCV at 7month window, and I own at both!!!!!

[seabright1]

Absolutely correct - is SSR completely to blame for the fact (not rumor, FACT) that 7 month ressies at preferred properties are getting harder to get, even during "off season" times? No, but the size and clearly lower attractiveness of that resort has changed what was a "7 month ressies are tricky" situation to "7 months ressies are increasingly impossible" one.

Interestingly, of all the DIS discussion on this matter, what I have yet to see-- and would love to read -- are comments on the matter by DVC ressie CMs.

Think about it - they live and breathe villa ressie requests day in and out, and I'm sure plenty of these people could readily confirm the suspicion Dean and I hold (ergo, said CMs are increasingly having to "disappoint" members by telling them a requested 7 month out ressie is not available).

And what frustrates me is while we aren't hearing this from CMs, I'm sure DVC management is - and is completely aware of the increasingly negative impact of the "buy here, but don't worry, you can always stay at BWV or BVC" message the DVC sales staff is giving to SSR buyers.

Since my recent experience at Saratoga Springs, I agree 100%

 

[HUFF590]

While there have been a couple of posters inappropriately bashing SSR, there are also some SSR owners that are OVERLY sensitive

I bet those who are overly sensitive (like myself) about SSR are the ones you least have to worry about booking at other resorts at the 7 month window IMOP.

 

[Chuck S]

Absolutely correct - is SSR completely to blame for the fact (not rumor, FACT) that 7 month ressies at preferred properties are getting harder to get, even during "off season" times? No, but the size and clearly lower attractiveness of that resort has changed what was a "7 month ressies are tricky" situation to "7 months ressies are increasingly impossible" one.

Interestingly, of all the DIS discussion on this matter, what I have yet to see-- and would love to read -- are comments on the matter by DVC ressie CMs.

Think about it - they live and breathe villa ressie requests day in and out, and I'm sure plenty of these people could readily confirm the suspicion Dean and I hold (ergo, said CMs are increasingly having to "disappoint" members by telling them a requested 7 month out ressie is not available).

And what frustrates me is while we aren't hearing this from CMs, I'm sure DVC management is - and is completely aware of the increasingly negative impact of the "buy here, but don't worry, you can always stay at BWV or BVC" message the DVC sales staff is giving to SSR buyers.

You expect the DVC guides to not mention the perks and operational parameters of DVC, including the option of booking at 7 months at a non-home resort? Seems kind of silly for them not to present all the advatages of the program, no matter what resort they are selling. Surely you were informed of the ability to book at OKW at 7 months, based on availability, when you took the tour...or did you believe you could stay ONLY where you purchased...no trades anywhere?

If owners are having trouble booking at home resorts during the 7 month window, perhaps they should plan earlier and take advantage of their 11 month booking priority. Those have always been the rules, they were the rules when you bought in and will no doubt continue to be. I really don't think MS CMs care whether an owner books their home resort or not...and in fact, it is not their job or responsibility to care where a member decides to spend their vacation, nor is it their personal business. Their responsibility is to book the members, based upon availability, where ever the members would like to stay, regardless of their home resort. The only time MS should care where you own is during your 11-7 resort priority window.

So what you are really saying is "I am unable to book during my priority window, and I am upset because then I have to take my chances like everyone else." Lack of planning on your part does not constitute any reason to constantly resort bash, nor does your lack of planning in any way become a problem within the DVC system. The system is working the way it was designed to operarate from day one. BTW...you do realize that that 11-7 month window could decrease to a 11-10 month window. All we are guaranteed is a one month priority.

 

[Simba's Mom]

If owners are having trouble booking at home resorts during the 7 month window, perhaps they should plan earlier and take advantage of their 11 month booking priority. Those have always been the rules, they were the rules when you bought in and will no doubt continue to be. I really don't think MS CMs care whether an owner books their home resort or not...and in fact, it is not their job or responsibility to care where a member decides to spend their vacation, nor is it their personal business. Their responsibility is to book the members, based upon availability, where ever the members would like to stay, regardless of their home resort. The only time MS should care where you own is during your 11-7 resort priority window.

So what you are really saying is "I am unable to book during my priority window, and I am upset because then I have to take my chances like everyone else." Lack of planning on your part does not constitute any reason to constantly resort bash, nor does your lack of planning in any way become a problem within the DVC system. The system is working the way it was designed to operarate from day one. BTW...you do realize that that 11-7 month window could decrease to a 11-10 month window. All we are guaranteed is a one month priority.

Well said! ITA

 

[Sammie]

Originally Posted by beachblanket
Absolutely correct - is SSR completely to blame for the fact (not rumor, FACT) that 7 month ressies at preferred properties are getting harder to get, even during "off season" times? No, but the size and clearly lower attractiveness of that resort has changed what was a "7 month ressies are tricky" situation to "7 months ressies are increasingly impossible" one.

Where are the facts to support that 7 month ressies at preferred (opinion) properties are getting harder to get even during "off season" times?

 

[TCPluto]

...the size and clearly lower attractiveness of that resort has changed what was a "7 month ressies are tricky" situation to "7 months ressies are increasingly impossible" one.

I don't think SSR has a lower level of attractiveness. You simply have more people in the system.

I booked a SV 1-BR at BWV at five months for an August trip this year. I've booked the BCV in the past yeat at 5 months.

 

[crisi]

Where are the facts to support that 7 month ressies at preferred (opinion) properties are getting harder to get even during "off season" times?

Math and static supply with variable demand - and this isn't SSR bashing - its talking about the size of membership.

Two models to illustrate:

1)

Say you have one resort with 10 rooms, and a second resort with 10 rooms. At seven months 1 person from resort A and 1 person from resort B switch with each other (10%) and everyone is happy.

Say now you have one resort with 10 rooms, another resort with 10 rooms and a third resort with 30 rooms. 10% still switch - 1 from resort A, 1 from resort B, and 3 from resort C (doesn't make any difference where they want to switch to, they just don't want to stay at their home resort)....now we have 4 happy members, and one unhappy member (the 3rd person from C who has nowhere to switch to).

(Now a "destination resort" might reduce the number of people who want to trade out, and increase the number of people who want to trade in. I built a spreadsheet and discovered SSR needs to be 3 times as popular when completed as BCV to create balance. I'm having a hard time believing that that is the case - I agree that BCV being more popular is unsupported opinion (believable to me, but unsupported), but my gullibility meter goes off if anyone tries to tell me that SSR is three times more popular.)


2)

There are less than 200 rooms at VWL. Unless something completely unforseen happens, there will always be 200 rooms at VWL. If 10% of members think "that looks like a cool resort to stay in" and we add 10,000 new members this year - that means we have an extra 1,000 units of demand for VWL.

Unless DVC starts releasing numbers for when resorts book and how many members are disappointed, we don't have facts, we have models. But if you can come up with a model where adding members and creating resorts that are significantly larger doesn't increase demand for the existing smaller resorts, I'd be interested.

 

[Dean]

Where are the facts to support that 7 month ressies at preferred (opinion) properties are getting harder to get even during "off season" times?

I believe it is fact that 7 month reservations have gotten more difficult at some resorts, some times of the year. I believe it is fact that a higher percentage of SSR members (among others like VB & HH & some OKW) are in the 7 month pool than BWV, VWL & BCV. NOT a problem, just fact. Not having proof does not make it NOT factual however, I feel there has been enough evidence posted on this board of people having trouble for things they didn't have trouble with before, to be enough proof to satisfy most people. And it likely will only get worse because there will be MANY more SSR owners with more points and more importantly, after a couple of trips, many of those owners are likely to want to try other things. Crunch time without another destination resort will start about 2-3 years post total sell out for SSR. EP would make it worse, CR without EP would make it only minimally better.

 

[tomandrobin]

Just chiming in here, but I think there are two other things to take into consideration.

First is that in a post 9/11 era people are finally getting more comfortable vacationing in "popular" travel destinations. I think that attendance at Disney has been back on the up swing these past few years.

Second is members are becoming more "timeshare savvy". The understand the system and know how to best take advantage of that system. For example, since BCV and BWV are popular DVC during F&W that members will make ressies at those resorts even if they are not sure they are going to go to the F&W. Kind of like the people who make 3 or 4 ADR's for each night of their stay (which is another sore subject!), just in case if they want to eat a particular restaurant it will be available to them.

I still believe that the system works. Home resort booking is a must. Peak times of the year will be difficult at certain resorts regardless if SSR is there or not. Adding six more resorts will not change "home resort" booking advantage....ever! However, it will put more pressure on you to plan ahead at popular resorts or popular DVC times of year!

 

[Disneyhappy]

Disney never guaranteed the ability to book at 7 months out, only between 11 and 7 months. Its sounds like people are upset because they had a better odds before DVC grew bigger.But still, DVC is meeting there promise witht he booking advantage at their home resorts. (Personally, I also think the economy and rebound from 9/11 are a factor as well.)

I don't read the rent boards enough but could another factor be that owners at BCV and BWV reserve the resort strictly for rental purposes? Owners would know the prime time to reserve. Just a thought.

Oh, and I was able to book BVC for 5 nights this August at 5 1/2 months out.

 

[crisi]

Disney never guaranteed the ability to book at 7 months out, only between 11 and 7 months. Its sounds like people are upset because they had a better odds before DVC grew bigger.But still, DVC is meeting there promise witht he booking advantage at their home resorts. (Personally, I also think the economy and rebound from 9/11 are a factor as well.)

They don't even guarentee that - this year there were reports of BCV owners frozen out before the seven month window opened for either F&W or early December (maybe both, can't remember). I think VWL have seen this, and, of course, BWV owners are very familiar with "if you want a standard view, don't wait."

I think some people are upset by - not being able to not book - but that DVC didn't keep their interests in mind when they knocked the balance off by creating such wildly different sized resorts. It really doesn't bother me that I can't book my home after the seven month window opens always - or that switching to BCV has become harder. But it does bother me (slightly) that DVC apparently didn't think this through or didn't care when they created a mega-resort. Or, for that matter, when they built VWL as a micro-resort. Other people are upset by what they see as less than honest sales tactics "you can book anywhere at seven months, sure it won't be a problem to stay at BWV in early December."

 

[RweTHEREyet]

I think it is really sad that the OP could not just vent and show her frustration at herself for not planning better. If her experience in the past was that she had been able to get the resort she wanted for her timeframe, and then it doesn't happen, let her vent at herself.

Some of you people just got mean and nasty for no reason.

 

[beachblanket]

I think some people are upset by - not being able to not book - but that DVC didn't keep their interests in mind when they knocked the balance off by creating such wildly different sized resorts. It really doesn't bother me that I can't book my home after the seven month window opens always - or that switching to BCV has become harder. But it does bother me (slightly) that DVC apparently didn't think this through or didn't care when they created a mega-resort. Or, for that matter, when they built VWL as a micro-resort. Other people are upset by what they see as less than honest sales tactics "you can book anywhere at seven months, sure it won't be a problem to stay at BWV in early December.

Crisi, thank you for an excellent post, and in particular referencing a point I made earlier (the clearly misleading tactics being used by DVC to promote what is inarguably a slow selling, second-tier property). This is happening, and is a factor in the increasing difficulty of getting 7 month ressies.

 

[Dean]

They don't even guarentee that - this year there were reports of BCV owners frozen out before the seven month window opened for either F&W or early December (maybe both, can't remember). I think VWL have seen this, and, of course, BWV owners are very familiar with "if you want a standard view, don't wait."

I think some people are upset by - not being able to not book - but that DVC didn't keep their interests in mind when they knocked the balance off by creating such wildly different sized resorts. It really doesn't bother me that I can't book my home after the seven month window opens always - or that switching to BCV has become harder. But it does bother me (slightly) that DVC apparently didn't think this through or didn't care when they created a mega-resort. Or, for that matter, when they built VWL as a micro-resort. Other people are upset by what they see as less than honest sales tactics "you can book anywhere at seven months, sure it won't be a problem to stay at BWV in early December."

It depends. They do guarantee a unit at 11 months out, just not necessarily which unit size and time of year. They don't necessarily guarantee what you want.

Contrary to what many believe, this is not a case of a lot of people being upset. I'd say MOST people who are discussing it are doing so as they would any other academic issue. To me, I don't care. I know how to plan 11 months out and know how to maximize my options both at 11 months out and 7 months, likely at the expense of the other members who are not so well informed or willing to play the game.

 

[Beca]

They don't even guarentee that - this year there were reports of BCV owners frozen out before the seven month window opened for either F&W or early December (maybe both, can't remember). I think VWL have seen this, and, of course, BWV owners are very familiar with "if you want a standard view, don't wait."

I think some people are upset by - not being able to not book - but that DVC didn't keep their interests in mind when they knocked the balance off by creating such wildly different sized resorts. It really doesn't bother me that I can't book my home after the seven month window opens always - or that switching to BCV has become harder. But it does bother me (slightly) that DVC apparently didn't think this through or didn't care when they created a mega-resort. Or, for that matter, when they built VWL as a micro-resort. Other people are upset by what they see as less than honest sales tactics "you can book anywhere at seven months, sure it won't be a problem to stay at BWV in early December."

Thank you, Crisi!! I couldn't have said it better myself!! This is EXACTLY how I feel. BTW, I was one of the BCV people who were "shut out" of BCV in early December, at 9 1/2 months out. I think people who are renting their points are creating a lot of those problems. BCV rentals go pretty high on ebay for December/Easter, and a lot of owners are beginning to capitalize on that by booking several rooms at that time to rent out on ebay and turn a big profit. Unfortunately, this is another problem created by having resorts of "wildly varying sizes". SSR and OKW will never bring the premium on the "reservation rental" market that BCV/BWV/VWL will because the rooms are more readily available, and the locations are more remote. When you combine size AND the rental market, it can get pretty nasty pretty quickly.



Beca

 

[Sammie]

I believe it is fact that 7 month reservations have gotten more difficult at some resorts, some times of the year. I believe it is fact that a higher percentage of SSR members (among others like VB & HH & some OKW) are in the 7 month pool than BWV, VWL & BCV. NOT a problem, just fact. Not having proof does not make it NOT factual however, I feel there has been enough evidence posted on this board of people having trouble for things they didn't have trouble with before, to be enough proof to satisfy most people. And it likely will only get worse because there will be MANY more SSR owners with more points and more importantly, after a couple of trips, many of those owners are likely to want to try other things. Crunch time without another destination resort will start about 2-3 years post total sell out for SSR. EP would make it worse, CR without EP would make it only minimally better.

I don't think the accounts that have been shared here that some have had difficulty in booking is enough fact. I am not saying it is not true, but I don't think anyone has the factual information to support it.

We don't know how many have been able to book at 7 months. We have had great success at booking at 7 months and still do.

 

[NMW]

They don't even guarentee that - this year there were reports of BCV owners frozen out before the seven month window opened for either F&W or early December (maybe both, can't remember). I think VWL have seen this, and, of course, BWV owners are very familiar with "if you want a standard view, don't wait."

I think some people are upset by - not being able to not book - but that DVC didn't keep their interests in mind when they knocked the balance off by creating such wildly different sized resorts. It really doesn't bother me that I can't book my home after the seven month window opens always - or that switching to BCV has become harder. But it does bother me (slightly) that DVC apparently didn't think this through or didn't care when they created a mega-resort. Or, for that matter, when they built VWL as a micro-resort. Other people are upset by what they see as less than honest sales tactics "you can book anywhere at seven months, sure it won't be a problem to stay at BWV in early December."

I completely agree! We were told many, many times by our guide that it would be NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER to book either BCV or BWV at 7 months in early Dec or anytime in Oct or Nov. Once we told him that an Epcot resort is where we wanted to stay every trip, he pushed SSR as a means to get into those resorts. In fact he told us that we'd "NEVER have to stay at SSR." I believed him (why wouldn't I?) until I discoverd this board and starting reading about how popular those resorts/times of the year were. We would have be devastated if we bought SSR, called at 7 months fully expecting to get into an Epcot resort, and got placed on a waiting list.

We probably would have sold our points (or tried to) and gone back to staying at the BWI or BC. Fortunately we bought a BWV resale and could not be happier. It annoys me that when I want to add points next year I will have to call that same guide who mislead me.

I find it hard to believe that my guide is the ONLY guide who sells SSR this way. I think it's unfair. Also, I don't think it's "bashing SSR" to say that we wouldn't want to stay there. In general we don't like condo-type resorts, that's just our preference. We just stayed in on last week in Myrtle Beach (at my in-laws insistence-plus they were paying ) and the entire time I kept thinking "I wish I were in a hotel."

 

[BethA]

I had posted about a month ago just saying i felt it was harder to book anywhere but SSR and OKW and got bashed for it. I rarely come to this board because it can be very mean to the posters. I stopped by today to look for an answer to a specific question and then saw this thread---OUCH.

I did not read through to the end, but hope you are able to get what will work best for you. It is frustrating when in the past you had no trouble booking and now can't get your home resorts.

We have stayed at SSR and had a bad experience--that is not bashing just what happened to us and we won't try it again.

It is disappointing that the attitiude on this board is so different from many of the others

 

[Sammie]

I had posted about a month ago just saying i felt it was harder to book anywhere but SSR and OKW and got bashed for it. I rarely come to this board because it can be very mean to the posters. I stopped by today to look for an answer to a specific question and then saw this thread---OUCH.

I did not read through to the end, but hope you are able to get what will work best for you. It is frustrating when in the past you had no trouble booking and now can't get your home resorts.

We have stayed at SSR and had a bad experience--that is not bashing just what happened to us and we won't try it again.

It is disappointing that the attitiude on this board is so different from many of the others

I don't think the attitude of this board is that different from others.

I don't think you got bashed for voicing your opinion, just that you tried to book 45 days prior. That was the crux of the discussion, not having difficulty at 7 months out.

 

[Chuck S]

Again, if folks use their priority window and own at the resort they want to stay at the most, there should be no problem...except for the other folks that own at that resort. It is the way DVC has always worked...VWL, the smallest resort, has always been "iffy" at the 7 month window. As DVC membership grows, smaller resorts will book first. Heck, I was shut of a studio at my home resort (OKW) at 5 months today, so OKW and larger resorts aren't the easiest to book, either.

But, as other posters have reported, some resorts are filling up during the priority window...so maybe it is the BCV and BWV owners that are throwing the system off by booking multiples and renting. You can't blame the larger resorts for that, or the increased membership, you can blame your fellow somewhat "greedy" and inconsiderate owners, as well as kicking yourselves for not booking earlier.