*** Updated to add spring break Data*** New Data, FP+ impacting wait times, discuss

[mom2rtk]

Is anyone else having flashbacks to that thread over a year ago, where "he who shall not be named" claimed that the PTB had meetings where they discussed how much Disney disliked the "Superusers"?

 

[Angel Ariel]

Is anyone else having flashbacks to that thread over a year ago, where "he who shall not be named" claimed that the PTB had meetings where they discussed how much Disney disliked the "Superusers"?

I must have missed that thread..

 

[mom2rtk]

I must have missed that thread..

You would have enjoyed it. That thread got a number of us through some blizzard days. I think that's where I first heard the term "superuser" thrown out there.

I'm thinking it's the one where the rumor about 20 fps per quarter for APs was thrown out there.

 

[Donut23]

Profits. More time to eat. To shop.

The down side to that is Disney has steadily dumbed down the food but increased prices (margin) for profit. Iger was so upset about US's merchandise sales increase he actually visited the park. Problem is, Disney has steadily limited selections and now sell really cheap crap from China (bigger margin).

People are dining off resort more often and buying less trinkets. How do I know? One of our favorite DVC friends is a RABID Disney shopper. Not at all unusual for him to drop $500 - $600 shopping on a trip and has done ALL his Christmas shopping at the Workd when there for Food and Wine.

He just came back from F&G. Bought nothing and ate 3 of 6 dinners offsite.

It doesn't matter if you give us front of the line VIP Fastpasses. The shopping isn't going to hit records until you return the quality to the stores or you start selling those HP plastic Magic Wands every child must have.

 

[TimothyG]

Here's the thing: Disney didn't just decide one day to spend a billion dollars revamping FP. They did a ton of research, came up with a ton of different ideas, and settled on the current FP+.

They won't wind up losing business. They will wind up generating more revenue than ever before. Disney has factored in everyone who will hate the system and everyone who will love the system. They have a lot of data backing up the fact that it increases revenues, otherwise they wouldn't invest money in it. This management team is way too adept financially to do something like that.

Trust me, I love riding attractions all day long and I used to get far more FPs than I could use in a day but I get exactly why they implemented this system. This system will probably reduce the average wait time for most guests. It will probably increase my average wait time. But I'm in a small minority. And at the end of the day, there's no way that I will boycott Disney over only having 3 FPs per day.

But as always, contact Guest Relations if you hate it because that's where their feedback comes from. And write them a letter, not an email. They don't take emails as seriously. That's the best way you can influence change to the system.

 

[WillAustin]

You would have enjoyed it. That thread got a number of us through some blizzard days. I think that's where I first heard the term "superuser" thrown out there.

I'm thinking it's the one where the rumor about 20 fps per quarter for APs was thrown out there.

That's the one.

As bcrook mentioned previously, there has never been anywhere Disney mentioned "fairness" as a reason for FP+. The idea that it is about spreading the rides out, or stopping people from using too many FPs is a myth.

There are specific comments saying it's about locking as many people as possible into a park in advance.

 

[FireDancer]

I don't care about any of this stuff. I go to the parks, get in the lines for what I want see/ride, wait, and repeat at another attraction. I just returned from a trip and had absolutely no negative experience with any aspect of the NextGen project. Other then wearing a piece of rubber on my wrist and pressing it against a Mickey head from time to time for something I didn't even really notice any change.

People do love to whine about change but I just go with the flow. If I have to wait a little longer in a line no big deal. It isn't really important in the grand scheme of life.

 

[Planogirl]

I can only eat so much but it almost sounds like Disney wants me to eat even more. Plus there is only so much merchandise to look through and it's pretty much the same everywhere.

I must be missing something...

 

[Planogirl]

I don't care about any of this stuff. I go to the parks, get in the lines for what I want see/ride, wait, and repeat at another attraction. I just returned from a trip and had absolutely no negative experience with any aspect of the NextGen project. Other then wearing a piece of rubber on my wrist and pressing it against a Mickey head from time to time for something I didn't even really notice any change.

People do love to whine about change but I just go with the flow. If I have to wait a little longer in a line no big deal. It isn't really important in the grand scheme of life.

If you don't care.... well you can probably guess the question.

I'm glad that you're content with how things are.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Here's the thing: Disney didn't just decide one day to spend a billion dollars revamping FP. They did a ton of research, came up with a ton of different ideas, and settled on the current FP+.

They won't wind up losing business. They will wind up generating more revenue than ever before. Disney has factored in everyone who will hate the system and everyone who will love the system. They have a lot of data backing up the fact that it increases revenues, otherwise they wouldn't invest money in it. This management team is way too adept financially to do something like that.

Trust me, I love riding attractions all day long and I used to get far more FPs than I could use in a day but I get exactly why they implemented this system. This system will probably reduce the average wait time for most guests. It will probably increase my average wait time. But I'm in a small minority. And at the end of the day, there's no way that I will boycott Disney over only having 3 FPs per day.

But as always, contact Guest Relations if you hate it because that's where their feedback comes from. And write them a letter, not an email. They don't take emails as seriously. That's the best way you can influence change to the system.

Disney didn't spend a billion dollars on fp+. They spent a billion dollars on mm+ to get the data mining they want. fp+ is simply their way of selling mm+ to the public.

 

[MrInfinity]

Here's the thing: Disney didn't just decide one day to spend a billion dollars revamping FP. They did a ton of research, came up with a ton of different ideas, and settled on the current FP+.

Trust me, I love riding attractions all day long and I used to get far more FPs than I could use in a day but I get exactly why they implemented this system. This system will probably reduce the average wait time for most guests. It will probably increase my average wait time. But I'm in a small minority. And at the end of the day, there's no way that I will boycott Disney over only having 3 FPs per day.

Exactly. I don't fault Disney for doing all this. It's a brilliant plan. It will pay off in ways most of us would never even have thought of, cuz for most ppl change is not natural, it's resisted. I'm looking forward to this, and despite what this thread was all about (the premise was suggesting average waits will be longer) -- I believe that my combined time in line, time running for fast passes and time spent criss-crossing the parks will actually be less.

I believe I will have more free time, riding about as much as I used to. And I used to ride quite a lot.

 

[KatieCharlotte]

It doesn't matter if you give us front of the line VIP Fastpasses. The shopping isn't going to hit records until you return the quality to the stores or you start selling those HP plastic Magic Wands every child must have.

My kids had Christmas spending money last trip and did not spend much of it. The toy the youngest bought required super glue after an hour and that made everyone reluctant to buy anything.

 

[RogueKnits]

This doesn't make sense to me. Don't most people buy passes for a certain number of days ahead of time and haven't they always done so? If I buy a 7 day pass, I do so planning to spend all or part of seven days at WDW. Do others do something different?

Well, a certain percentage of people do not buy a pass that is equal to the length of their stay. For example, on my upcoming trip I will be staying on site for 7 nights. However, I purchased a 4-day pass with waterparks which leaves us the option of possibly spending one day at Universal (or somewhere else off-property). With FP+ there is now an incentive to purchase additional days on my pass, spend a lot less for tickets than if we were to go to Universal, and get an additional 3 FPs per extra day which would make my time in the parks a bit more relaxed because, for example, I would have a total of 6 FPs for MK instead of just 3.

Disney wants people (especially those staying on property) to spend their entire vacation at WDW.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Now, smarter doesn't really help you at all.

That does bum me out a little... and I'm not wholly anti-FP+. I liked my little rewards for doing my homework. I still think that there are some, but not as many. Woe is me...

The parks and resorts aren't full, so losing any loyal customers is a net negative for Disney.

Nope. By definition, looking at only what one segment will do is NOT a NET negative for Disney. By definition, "net" means all told, of course...

They have a lot of faith that people will be willing to buy their generic items and overeat don't they?

JMHO, but isn't this common complaint a little out of date? Seems to me that they've added the differentiation back into resort merchandise, and are doing a lot of attraction-specific stuff as well. Menus strike me as fairly varied. Where is all the generic stuff these days?

 

[lugnut33]

That's the one.

As bcrook mentioned previously, there has never been anywhere Disney mentioned "fairness" as a reason for FP+. The idea that it is about spreading the rides out, or stopping people from using too many FPs is a myth.

There are specific comments saying it's about locking as many people as possible into a park in advance.

I also read an Orlando Sentinel article one time that also said the reason for it is to spread out the crowds by increasing ridership in the under-utilized attractions which will allow for more park capacity, thus allowing Disney to sell more tickets (especially annual passes).

 

[NavyDad]

Could you see Iger in front of investors saying, "we think it's OK if we lose a certain percentage of our most loyal visitors". Umm, that's just not reality.

Ummm... have you ever been on an earning call? Those types of things are said all of the time.

Every major business in the world is more than willing to lose a certain percentage of their most loyal customers if they feel they can gain a certain percentage of more profitable customers.

It's called a trade-off. Companies do this all the time. The ones that don't, like Blockbuster, go out of business.

At this point I understand I am wasting my time trying to explain this but large profitable companies don't make huge investments like this to make things better for their top 1% or 5% or even 15% of most loyal customers. They do it to create new revenue streams or maximize under-tapped revenue streams. Disney is using Queueing methods and micro-targeting to do this.

I've been on these boards for 5 years and have read so many claims that the food and merchandise at Disney are getting so bad every year that people are reducing how much money they are going to spend on shopping and Dining. They cite the fact that their Brother's Sister in Law's cousin goes twice a year and this year is only doing one trip and they are going to pack their own lunches to save money.

The funny thing that over the last decade Disney Parks have more than doubled both their Gross Revenue and their Net Income. In just the last 5 years they have increased Net Income by around 60%. Every corporation in the world would take this numbers and laugh all the way to the bank.

These people don't just take "shots in the dark" that lose money. Read about Whole Foods, Harris Teater, Costco and Wal-mart and you will find out how increased efficiency and micro-targeting are making these companies hugely profitable.

I get that certain people don't like these changes because they will "get less". It's normal human nature to protect your turf - we all do it.

 

[FutureMayor]

Most of us in here got very good at using the old system. The new system is experiencing some growing pains and eventually Disney will deliver something that addresses most if not all of the issues we have. My personal experience having used FP+ on 2 recent trips is that I have found myself waiting in more lines when in the past I would have been doing other things (walking to get another fastpass, grabbing something to eat, etc.). The data suggests lines have not got longer... we're just waiting in them now so they feel longer.

The new system has removed some of the spontaneity that I used to enjoy. I guess I'll have to figure out a new way to make the day feel like more of an adventure versus something I tried my best to plan in advance.

 

[jtowntoflorida]

Is anyone else having flashbacks to that thread over a year ago, where "he who shall not be named" claimed that the PTB had meetings where they discussed how much Disney disliked the "Superusers"?

I don't recall that. Do you have a link?

 

[KatieCharlotte]

Of course! Go spend your money. Disney is perfectly happy w that. They've just closed the loophole on you riding 7 times via FastPass. While 7 other guests rode via FastPass not at all. Now, you, and 6 other people can all ride via FastPass once! Do you not agree that is great in it's purest form?

They took a feature that was previously used by you, while most people ignored it, and they HANDED it to those other people. That's part of what burns I think... FP- users used to think they were earning their rides by being smarter than the average clueless tourist. Now, smarter doesn't really help you at all.

It's unfortunate that it's worse for those that used to know how to take more, but it's fortunate that it's better for so many. That's just the way it is. Tho you and I will surely wait longer to get on the rides we used to, MOST other ppl who went on much less than you or I, will now be waiting less.

Woohoo right? I get that you don't care what they get on and you'd just as soon they be in standby like before. But from Disney's point of view this is better. Ppl need to accept that what Disney's doing is because it's best for them, not you.

I do not want to ride anything seven times. I want flexibility. I want to have fourteen hour days at MK in which I use FP all day, and the next day I use none. I want to FP Jungle Cruise or Buzz twice in one day. I want to be able to wander back into HM, Small World, and PotC when we feel like it because the lines are always fast. I want to be able to grab a FP for a coaster because my kids woke up feeling good. I want to ride Splash on the day it's 80 degrees, not the day it's 40 degrees. I want to FP Soarin and Maelstrom in the same day. I want my DD who loves Star Tours to ride twice in a row while everyone else is riding ToT and RnRc over and over. I do not want to plan my days two months in advance under the strict parameters Disney has set.

And yes, I also liked that waking up early, being smart, and putting in some work made my family's vacation better. Just like life in general. But this is still true under FP+. If Disney's motivation was an equal experience for all, they would be teaching guests which FP+ are most valuable.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Ummm... have you ever been on an earning call? Those types of things are said all of the time.

Every major business in the world is more than willing to lose a certain percentage of their most loyal customers if they feel they can gain a certain percentage of more profitable customers.

It's called a trade-off. Companies do this all the time. The ones that don't, like Blockbuster, go out of business.