United Auto Workers Union

[jodifla]

Have you ever been in an auto plant? I was in one last summer. They work their butts off and are doing ten times what they did in the seventies. It is a different industry now. Few people could keep up with what one plant worker does over the course of their work day. Growing up we had field trips to the plants yearly, so I can compare.

We are on opposite sides polically, but I just wanted to say, You are so right here!!!

(common ground!)

 

[JonS99]

This is Bush's fault, but there is no need to worry, Obama will simply get out his wand...

 

[Yen Sid]

I seen something on ABC news last night that said if GM failed it could cost around 2.5 million jobs in America. I think those kind of numbers are staggering and would cripple this countries recovery. I use to work for the Postal Service before being fired because of my disability, they had a union that is similar to the Auto workers. I use to like the union but then I started to hate the things they have tried to do. Everyone wants their fair share but sometimes they go over board and nobody is willing to budge. In times like this I think everyone under the contract should take a paycut to help save jobs but at the same time I believe the upper managment should take even bigger cuts and implement them first to show that they are doing their part. I live in Western Ny and unions are killing us here too, but the upper echelon people need to show they are serious and do their part, how can you expect a worker to take a huge paycut when you are making millions a year for something remedial? I just don't get the mind set anymore, people would rather lose their jobs than take a paycut and save most of them.

 

[#1hockeymom]

We are on opposite sides polically, but I just wanted to say, You are so right here!!!

(common ground!)

I noticed. Who would have thought that you, gmboy, and I would be on the same side? LOL

 

[#1hockeymom]

While these facts may be true (not sure) it just may be due to the fact that Honda and (I believe) Toyota manufactured many of these cars in the US or Mexico, not Japan. The Japanese blow us away in quality control. Why they were'nt able to apply those standards here makes me wonder.....culture????.....Unions????

Wait...it's almost 10am...time for my mandatory coffee break.

Unions....Blah!

Most union workers only make 14.50 an hour right now. This is about 2/3's of the plant workers per UAW contract. How little did you want them to make to satisfy your superiority complex over a *shudder* blue collar worker. Would minimum wage satisfy you? Now they can't even afford to buy the product that they build and they get very limited benefits.

 

[dvcgirl]

This is a really, really bad thing for our economy, but how long can we keep propping these companies up? GM has *lost* 50 BILLION dollars in the last three years. Yeah, yeah, I know, they're dealing with legacy costs and the unions and all of that. But they've also made the business decision to manufacture very expensive-gas guzzling SUVs/Trucks and sold them to a whole lot of people who couldn't really afford them.

And so when gas prices skyrocketed.....they found themselves in serious trouble. And when the credit markets froze.....they were doomed.

Yesterday, they marched into Nancy Pelosi's office and put a gun to her head. Either you give us 50 BILLION dollars......or this country loses 2.5 million jobs.

Nice.

Toyota and Honda's sales are also down, not as much as GM or Ford though. And their balance sheets are loaded with cash.....so they won't be in line looking for a handout.

But they'll get their money......

Throwing good money after bad, that's what this is. And it's borrowed money....borrow money from China to save the auto industry....to *try*and save them this is. This 50 Billion, well there's no guarantee that this keeps them from filing bankruptcy. They'll burn through this money in a matter of months.

 

[DawnCt1]

UAW saved the auto workers from slave labor.....and it must be nice to wish for thousands to lose there jobs....wow

Every car that rolls off of GMs assembly line has a base price of $1700 in retiree benefits. That is before the cost of materials and labor are even considered. I find it interesting that the businesses that are in serious trouble are the ones that have allowed themselves to be beaten into submission by the unions. Talk about the killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.

 

[JimFitz]

Most union workers only make 14.50 an hour right now. This is about 2/3's of the plant workers per UAW contract. How little did you want them to make to satisfy your superiority complex over a *shudder* blue collar worker. Would minimum wage satisfy you? Now they can't even afford to buy the product that they build and they get very limited benefits.

Where did I say I had anything against the blue collar worker? I was raised by a secretary and construction worker.

UAW is going bust. The union management wanted more and more and more and more and more and more................

While the union may have started for the right reasons.......GREED took over.

BTW..I am not anti union........just anti UAW.

They should not get my tax dollars.

 

[Carly_Roach]

I'm not in favor of bailouts, however I think there is one solution to the auto makers:

Give them the billions they need (including tax incentives), with every dime being accounted for, to do R&D and re-tool their plants to produce hybrids to be sold to the American public at a reasonable price (like under $20K).

If the car-companies are willing to get on-board to help sever America's relationship with Saudi oil, then I'm all for giving them tax-payer dollars. If the money is just going to go the way it went for the banking bailout (buying failing companies and NOT releasing their holds on credit for businesses), then let the auto-makers fail.

 

[mickeysgal]

Every car that rolls off of GMs assembly line has a base price of $1700 in retiree benefits. That is before the cost of materials and labor are even considered. I find it interesting that the businesses that are in serious trouble are the ones that have allowed themselves to be beaten into submission by the unions. Talk about the killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.

So is the root cause to get rid of the unions? Would that help? Just honestly asking the question here...

 

[#1hockeymom]

Some food for thought:
"CNN Headline News did a short news listing regarding Ford and GM's contributions to the relief and recovery efforts in New York and Washington.

The findings are as follows.....

1. Ford- $1 million to American Red Cross matching employee contributions of the same number plus 10 Excursions to NY Fire Dept. The company also offered ER response team services and office space to displaced government employees.

2. GM- $1 million to American Red Cross matching employee contributions of the same number and a fleet of vans, suv's, and trucks.

3. Daimler Chrysler- $10 million to support of the children and victims of the Sept. 11 attack.

4. Harley Davidson motorcycles- $1 million and 30 new motorcycles to the New York Police Dept.

5. Volkswagen-Emp loyees and management created a Sept 11 Foundation, funded initial with $2 million, for the assistance of the children and victims of the WTC.

6. Hyundai- $300,000 to the American Red Cross.

7. Audi-Nothing.

8. BMW-Nothing.

9. Daewoo- Nothing.

10. Fiat-Nothing.

11. Honda- Nothing despite boasting of second best sales month ever in August 2001

12. I suzu- Nothing.

13. Mitsubishi-Nothing.

14. Nissan-Nothing.

15. Porsche-Nothing. Press release with condolences via the Porsche website.

16. Subaru- Nothing.

17. Suzuki- Nothing.

18. Toyota-Nothing despite claims of high sales in July and August 2001. Condolences posted on the website.

Whenever the time may be for you to purchase or lease a new vehicle, keep this information in mind. You might want to give more consideration to a car manufactured by an American-owned and / or American based company . Apart from Hyundai and Volkswagen, the foreign car companies contributed nothing at all to the citizens of the United States.

 

[Castlebound]

I don't know about other plants but I can tell you that 10 years ago temps at the Chrysler plants in Fenton, Missouri made almost $20 an hour plus benefits. Full time employees made more. When I say benefits I mean everything! Health, dental, and vision with no deductables and no out of pocket expenses except office copays. They paid $0 for these benefits. My mom was a temp there for 3 years and she was very upset over the "its not my job" attitude that many workers had. She was working the line one night when one of the guys ran over and killed another guy with one of the trucks off the line. How did that happen? Well there was a sign on the truck that said caution no brakes, but the guy who was driving it was illiterate. How does a guy who can't read get a job making over $20 an hour? Unions were put into place to protect workers but over time the UAW has gotten greedy and it has come back to bit them. The van plant in Fenton is closed and the truck plant is down to one shift.

 

[Carly_Roach]

I don't know about other plants but I can tell you that 10 years ago temps at the Chrysler plants in Fenton, Missouri made almost $20 an hour plus benefits.

Point of order: 10 years ago, EVERYONE made more money.

Regarding the "It's not my job" attitude, I can testify that this attitude was alive and kicking amongst union workers. Unfortunately, many of those same workers are now saying it to each other because their job went overseas.

Irony is the dull blade that cuts sharply every so often, yes?

 

[cruiserkaren]

Have you ever been in an auto plant? I was in one last summer. They work their butts off and are doing ten times what they did in the seventies. It is a different industry now. Few people could keep up with what one plant worker does over the course of their work day. Growing up we had field trips to the plants yearly, so I can compare.

This is very true. At least for my dh. He is a member of the UAW. His benefits and pay have been cut DRAMATICALLY in the last 10 years. It is night and day compared to when he started. My dh busts his rump DAILY and works very hard, takes his job seriously and does it too the absolute best of his ability. Dh is NOT lazy and does NOT sit around for 8 hours a day. As it stands now he will more than likely be out of a job by the end of 2009.

 

[cruiserkaren]

Most union workers only make 14.50 an hour right now. This is about 2/3's of the plant workers per UAW contract. How little did you want them to make to satisfy your superiority complex over a *shudder* blue collar worker. Would minimum wage satisfy you? Now they can't even afford to buy the product that they build and they get very limited benefits.

Good question. Dh no longer works for one of the Big 3. His plant was sold to a supplier in 2003. Our benefits are almost nil and his pay was cut significantly. 401k? What 401k? While I agree that years ago the UAW did get greedy, our local is simply doing their best to keep the jobs here and the plant open at pay that can be lived on.

 

[DisMN]

It's pretty clear to me from what I'm seeing and hearing that our country is headed for the big divide.....IMHO the middle class will be wiped out and we'll be left with abject poverty and the wealthy.

I don't think we're looking too far in the future either...it's coming full on and fast.

Greed from the CEO's and upper management and no respect for the grunts is how we got here and I don't see that changing any time soon. An awful lot of people have tremendous disdain for DH because he makes "lots" of money. When was the last time you heard of a desk worker catch his pants on fire, get his arm cut off by a simple glitch in the machinery at work or worse yet lose his life because a piece of equipment toppled over and crushed him? These people get paid a lot because they WORK in hard and dangerous jobs. And what you see as them getting paid is usually all the benefits listed in that number........so it's not as much as you THINK it is.

And yes, DH gets paid less than he did 15 years ago, and that's even with a new "good" contract. They've taken many a pay cut just to be able to keep working.

Who has benefitted most from those pay cuts? My guess is the CEO's of these companies.

Why can't we make the CEO's give back some of what they've taken?

I'm really torn on what I think should happen with the auto industry. I fear what will happen if they aren't helped and I fear all the help in the world WON'T help......

 

[HumanLegs]

I think the auto makers need to re-think what they're building. They need to start building hybrid vehicles. In Flint, MI construction has already started on a plant to build the new Chevy volt. That's the kind of thing we need. Hybrid vehicles are usually cheaper than regular, even brand new. I don't necessarily think a bailout is needed, I think maybe the bigwigs need to actually put in some of their own money. Also, some (not all) who've posted don't know what's happening here in MI. Here we've had a recession the past 3 years. This nationwide recession is NOT new to us. It's a little sad to me. It seems if only one state is affected then it's alright. If it's the nation as a whole then it's shocking.

As far as workers not taking their jobs seriously that happens in ALL types of work. What about the teacher who would rather give tests than teach anything worthwhile? It's not just auto workers. MOST auto workers go to work each day and do their jobs well. How do you think you're driving your Chevy truck? Because no one built it? Was it built by mice?

As far as layed off workers learning a new skill where do they come up with that money? Most have families and homes like the rest of the world. If they have only unemployment how are they supposed to pay to go to school and learn new skills? What about the people one or two years away from retirement? Exactly what is the 50 year old supposed to do? Most of them have been at GM since they graduated high school. Building cars IS what they know!

 

[DisMN]

As far as layed off workers learning a new skill where do they come up with that money? Most have families and homes like the rest of the world. If they have only unemployment how are they supposed to pay to go to school and learn new skills? What about the people one or two years away from retirement? Exactly what is the 50 year old supposed to do? Most of them have been at GM since they graduated high school. Building cars IS what they know!

Add to that mess the 55 yr olds who are told that their pensions have vanished and retirement is now impossible. How long are these people supposed to work again? How many years can their bodies take in these physically demanding jobs and what happens to their families when they die.....a stolen pension at this age is pretty financially devastating.

Before someone jumps in and says "OH but the PBGC will cover the lost pensions" please do some research. You'll find that the PBGC will only cover a small fraction of the original pension and that's IF the PBGC itself will be able to. PBGC is very likely to go bankrupt itself, way before anyone really benefits from the program.

Sure, lets retrain these older American workers.......who's gonna hire them for the new jobs their trained for? Hire a 55-60 yr old in this economy? Good luck with that.

I feel physically ill looking at our future, my families future and the future of our country.

 

[Planogirl]

I feel for those who work in the auto industry. The only thing apparent on this thread is that these workers are caught between a rock and a hard place and are slowly being squeezed out.

There are people who say retrain. For what? There are only so many jobs to go around in any industry. The number employed by the auto industry is staggering.

 

[Charade]

It's sad, but the days of large corporations carrying you cradle to grave are over. Companies just can't afford to pay Americans what they want so they are forced to take those jobs overseas where the labor is cheaper.

I don't blame the UAW. I also don't blame the corporations. It is what it is, and that stinks.

We, as Americans, expect too much. The market can't and won't (and shouldn't have to, sorry) sustain us at that price.

I agree. NO bailout.

But on the other hand, many (a GOOD many!) people want the government to take over where the corporations come up short or not at all. Healthcare, pensions...