United Auto Workers Union

[S. C.]

My brother started working for Chrysler 14 years ago at age 19. He started at $20/hour working on the line and he belonged to the Union. It was way more money that he was worth just like the janitor who make 80K.

The only way to make 80k is to work lots and lots of overtime. Unless you are talking about the benefits + wages that everyone LOVES to quote when they say how much auto makers make.

 

[Colleen27]

My brother started working for Chrysler 14 years ago at age 19. He started at $20/hour working on the line and he belonged to the Union. It was way more money that he was worth just like the janitor who make 80K.

How much do you feel a full time employee should be worth? $20/hour is just over $41K annually. The current prevailing entry wage is $14.50 or about $30K/year. That isn't even enough to make ends meet in most places.

 

[DawnCt1]

How much do you feel a full time employee should be worth? $20/hour is just over $41K annually. The current prevailing entry wage is $14.50 or about $30K/year. That isn't even enough to make ends meet in most places.

Doesn't it depend upon their skills? Someone with absolutely no skills and no work experience is worth minimum wage plus what his employer or any employer is willing to pay.

 

[WDWMom]

Doesn't it depend upon their skills? Someone with absolutely no skills and no work experience is worth minimum wage plus what his employer or any employer is willing to pay.

Exactly! My brother had no skills, no education past high school. I think 41K is darn great money for a 19 year old. DH who is 11 years older than my brother wasn't making that kind of money 14 year ago and he had a college education and had been in the work force for 10 years. Now I give my brother credit, he has his assoc. degree now and has worked for Chrysler for 14 years. I'm sure he makes great money and may be worth what he makes, but that wasn't the case when he first started working there.

 

[Charade]

No better way to avoid addressing a legitimate point than to take it to an absurd extreme.

Didn't you just do the same thing? "greedy unions... 50 cents an hour..."

The effects of our system of employer-funded benefits are well documented. Companies cannot compete with foreign companies because they bear costs that the competition doesn't, and wages stagnate for the American worker. As health care costs have continued to spiral upwards, companies that do provide benefits are increasingly unable to afford to continue to do so. And when the economy slows, our companies are in a position of having higher costs at a time of lower revenues, and are thus less able to ride out a recession.

So you'd rather have them tax-payer funded???

 

[Golf4food]

How much do you feel a full time employee should be worth? $20/hour is just over $41K annually. The current prevailing entry wage is $14.50 or about $30K/year. That isn't even enough to make ends meet in most places.

When I started my first full-time job out of college with a major insurance company I was making a whopping $17,000/year - with a college degree with honors from a private university. After a few promotions and earning two major industry designations via company education programs I was finally making around that $30K level that is so "minimum". Five years later I am finally making more than that but am still below the $50K level. Ends can more than meet at $30K per year in our area. A two-person income in our area with both making $30K or more can be easily middle class. In New York we'd probably be dirt poor.

If the auto companies can't make money in Michigan perhaps they should move to areas with lower taxes and lower cost of living for the employees. That's capitalism.

By the way, I'm not being insensitive when I say that. If any of the auto companies fail or if they don't improve soon, myself, my wife, and one of her parents will likely lose our jobs because what we do is directly tied to auto sales. Our household income could easily drop to zero in the next few months if something doesn't happen soon.

Millions of jobs are at stake in this, not just a few hundred or a few thousand in Michigan. A major failure of the auto industry in America will effect areas all over the United States. I could name good sized companies in about 12 states from our small section of the industry alone that will probably go out of business if the auto industry fails. That doesn't even take into account all of the other parts of the industry and aftermarket arena, manufacturing plants, parts factories, etc. Don't forget trucking, transport, shipping, loan underwriters at banks and credit unions, etc.

I don't like bailouts any more than anyone, but I do know that if any of the big three American auto companies goes down that it likely takes the entire country with them. The Great Depression might become a historic footnote.

 

[Charade]

How much do you feel a full time employee should be worth? $20/hour is just over $41K annually. The current prevailing entry wage is $14.50 or about $30K/year. That isn't even enough to make ends meet in most places.

Find a roommate.

 

[Tinks]

Poor management killed the auto industry. Lack of vision and stupid policies. Oh yeah. And WAY overpaying their top executives while insisting they had "no money" to pay workers (who were portrayed as greedy).

I knew it wouldn't be long until someone came along and posted this. It is not entirely the managements fault. Period. It is not entirely the UAWs fault. Period.

The markets won't hold the US workers (ALL of them) and our demands anymore. This is the CHANGE that's coming and we're going to have to get used to it. We can and will survive and be better.

Off to read more....

 

[fkj2]

There are two basic fundamental issues at play here: supply and demand, and competition.

Nobody can force the consumer to buy a new car, and certainly not from the Big Three. There isn't enough time, even if the autos got their bailout immediately, for them to retool their car lines or for the consumer to recover financially, buy cars, and help turn those behemoths around. Besides, how is the consumer supposed to get a car loan these days?

It makes no sense to throw good money after bad, but it appears we're about to do that with AIG who is again asking for additional government monies this weekend before they have to report earnings on Monday.

Mayor Bloomberg of NYC said it best: "We can't spend money we don't have."

The country seems to have deluded itself into believing we can escape the pain. I don't think we can.

 

[Tinks]

But on the other hand, many (a GOOD many!) people want the government to take over where the corporations come up short or not at all. Healthcare, pensions...

Yes. I'm to the point that I don't know what to think anymore. I truly believe we are heading for, let's just call it ,"social democracy" to placate everyone. I live in one right now (Singapore) and it's frightening. But I see it coming our way. It really, really bothers me.

But on the other hand, something needs to be done.

What really needs to happen is for us to fall flat on our faces so we get a dose of reality. We expect too much and were brought up with too much.

 

[Csaks]

Work hard my butt. The hardest thing they do is trying to keep from being bored to death. From the horse's mouth!

A bunch of my neighbours work at the GM Oshawa plant and brag about how easy they have it. "Hide and seek for a thousand a week!" is their beer drinking cheer. If they don't make 6 figures a year they are pissed. They all have beautiful old classic cars that are worth a fortune. The guy across the street was given a golden hand shake (80 thousand) to retire early before the truck plant closed to try and save the younger guys jobs. Two weeks later there was a amazing motor home in the driveway. Unfortunatly they now might lose their jobs, do I feel bad for them, not really, they helped kill the golden goose.

Their attitude was this would go on forever and they keep abusing the company and now they can't figure out why they don't have jobs. Toyota and Honda plants are doing just fine around here, could it be that they are non union .

 

[fkj2]

Work hard my butt. The hardest thing they do is trying to keep from being bored to death. From the horse's mouth!

A bunch of my neighbours work at the GM Oshawa plant and brag about how easy they have it. "Hide and seek for a thousand a week!" is their beer drinking cheer. If they don't make 6 figures a year they are pissed. They all have beautiful old classic cars that are worth a fortune. The guy across the street was given a golden hand shake (80 thousand) to retire early before the truck plant closed to try and save the younger guys jobs. Two weeks later there was a amazing motor home in the driveway. Unfortunatly they now might lose their jobs, do I feel bad for them, not really, they helped kill the golden goose.

A few years ago I was sitting in the waiting area of a podiatrist's office, surrounded by GM and Delphi workers. ALL of them were talking about the medical care they were having done and how long they'd be able to be on "sick leave." One woman spoke about how, after lunch, she'd slip off to a place in the plant where she could take a nap and one day, she was lucky she woke up in time to go home.

It's hearing such direct testimony that makes it hard for the American public to feel really badly for autoworkers.

 

[Charade]

Has the job bank been mentioned?

 

[S. C.]

Work hard my butt. The hardest thing they do is trying to keep from being bored to death. From the horse's mouth!

A bunch of my neighbours work at the GM Oshawa plant and brag about how easy they have it. "Hide and seek for a thousand a week!" is their beer drinking cheer. If they don't make 6 figures a year they are pissed. They all have beautiful old classic cars that are worth a fortune. The guy across the street was given a golden hand shake (80 thousand) to retire early before the truck plant closed to try and save the younger guys jobs. Two weeks later there was a amazing motor home in the driveway. Unfortunatly they now might lose their jobs, do I feel bad for them, not really, they helped kill the golden goose.

Their attitude was this would go on forever and they keep abusing the company and now they can't figure out why they don't have jobs. Toyota and Honda plants are doing just fine around here, could it be that they are non union .

AGAIN.... The only ones making a thousand a week take home are the ones that work lots of overtime. As far as if the work is hard we could debate that all day. Just like any place you are going to have some that do not work as hard as others. MOST do work hard...maybe you should try working on a truck assembly line.

I have no idea WHY you are blaming the workers for the economy but ok.

Gas prices was a HUGE deciding factor in low auto sales.

 

[#1hockeymom]

My coffee does taste good. Thank You!


And for every American Auto that has had problems I could point out tons of Japan and Import autos and other items that have been junk. If only i had the time.

Look at the facts... American Auto companies turn out Good Quality Products.

Bottom line is there are always going to be quality problems in ALL lines of work everywhere that SLIPS by now and then.

I have run into a number of people that will tell me that their mazda or volvo or whatever is better, yet the same car built by the same people, with only a switched nameplate at the end and maybe some different grill parts is deemed as sub standard by people who are horrified to buy american.

I completely agree that the American Auto industry turns out good cars. I have bought mostly American cars over the years. We are on our second Ford Explorer. The first one had 250K when it finally died. I have a CTS which I love. I absolutely LOVED MY Chrysler 300M with 170K. The Grand Prix lived to about the same mileage. DS#1 has a Nissan Maxima. It hasn't been any more dependable than any American car that we have had and the parts and repairs cost a heck of a lot more. DS#3 has an Nissan Altima. It was the 1.9% financing and the buyer incentives that cinched the deal for him and DH and I wanted a sports car, so the leftover 2007, 6 speed Nissan 350Z convertible with more than a 25% price reduction made that car attractive. My next car could easily be American. I think that there is a myth that foreign cars are perfect and American cars are junk. Nothing could be further from the truth.

and thank you!

New contracts kick in next year for the UAW, cutting the hourly rate to 14.50 for new jobs. That was part of the deal to put them back into the black.

Problem is, right after the contract, first came the gas crisis, slowing sales. Then came the credit crisis and stockmarket crash, basically stopping sales. Very few industries could survive that no sales. Even Toyota and Honda are reeling.

If you drive around Oakland County, a suburb of Detroit where many auto execs live, you'll see astonishing home after astonishing home. Really, I've never seen the amount of wealth in one area like that. South Florida has it's McMansion subdivisions, but this is city after city stocked with really nice homes.

Now, these aren't the UAW workers' homes. These are the white collar workers homes. If you haven't been to Michigan, it's truly hard to imagine how big these three companies are, and how many people they employ.

ANYWAY, we can argue the merits of helping out the auto industry all day, but here's the thing. THE GOVERNMENT WON'T LET THEM FAIL. Actually, it CAN'T let them fail.

It's a Homeland Security Issue. We need the car companies, we need the steel industry in case of war.

You know I agree with you! I hate to tell you, though, that the McMansions are being sold and foreclosed upon at a great rate. Many just being sold for less thtan they're worth with their owners going elsewhere to work. Many were forced into early retirement and they've downsized. We know what is happening to the people that got in late in the game.

My brother started working for Chrysler 14 years ago at age 19. He started at $20/hour working on the line and he belonged to the Union. It was way more money that he was worth just like the janitor who make 80K.

New contract, new way of life.

When I started my first full-time job out of college with a major insurance company I was making a whopping $17,000/year - with a college degree with honors from a private university. After a few promotions and earning two major industry designations via company education programs I was finally making around that $30K level that is so "minimum". Five years later I am finally making more than that but am still below the $50K level. Ends can more than meet at $30K per year in our area. A two-person income in our area with both making $30K or more can be easily middle class. In New York we'd probably be dirt poor.

If the auto companies can't make money in Michigan perhaps they should move to areas with lower taxes and lower cost of living for the employees. That's capitalism.

By the way, I'm not being insensitive when I say that. If any of the auto companies fail or if they don't improve soon, myself, my wife, and one of her parents will likely lose our jobs because what we do is directly tied to auto sales. Our household income could easily drop to zero in the next few months if something doesn't happen soon.

Millions of jobs are at stake in this, not just a few hundred or a few thousand in Michigan. A major failure of the auto industry in America will effect areas all over the United States. I could name good sized companies in about 12 states from our small section of the industry alone that will probably go out of business if the auto industry fails. That doesn't even take into account all of the other parts of the industry and aftermarket arena, manufacturing plants, parts factories, etc. Don't forget trucking, transport, shipping, loan underwriters at banks and credit unions, etc.

I don't like bailouts any more than anyone, but I do know that if any of the big three American auto companies goes down that it likely takes the entire country with them. The Great Depression might become a historic footnote.

A few years ago I was sitting in the waiting area of a podiatrist's office, surrounded by GM and Delphi workers. ALL of them were talking about the medical care they were having done and how long they'd be able to be on "sick leave." One woman spoke about how, after lunch, she'd slip off to a place in the plant where she could take a nap and one day, she was lucky she woke up in time to go home.

It's hearing such direct testimony that makes it hard for the American public to feel really badly for autoworkers.

I am guessing at the area you're talking about, and have to say I know delphi workers who had the same outlook. I was speaking earlier of a Ford plant. I have never been in a GM Plant even though I'm in GM country here where I live. I'm betting that they are either gone from the companies, or have a different outlook now if they're still employed at all.

 

[#1hockeymom]

I think the auto makers need to re-think what they're building. They need to start building hybrid vehicles. In Flint, MI construction has already started on a plant to build the new Chevy volt. That's the kind of thing we need. Hybrid vehicles are usually cheaper than regular, even brand new. I don't necessarily think a bailout is needed, I think maybe the bigwigs need to actually put in some of their own money. Also, some (not all) who've posted don't know what's happening here in MI. Here we've had a recession the past 3 years. This nationwide recession is NOT new to us. It's a little sad to me. It seems if only one state is affected then it's alright. If it's the nation as a whole then it's shocking.

As far as workers not taking their jobs seriously that happens in ALL types of work. What about the teacher who would rather give tests than teach anything worthwhile? It's not just auto workers. MOST auto workers go to work each day and do their jobs well. How do you think you're driving your Chevy truck? Because no one built it? Was it built by mice?

As far as laid off workers learning a new skill where do they come up with that money? Most have families and homes like the rest of the world. If they have only unemployment how are they supposed to pay to go to school and learn new skills? What about the people one or two years away from retirement? Exactly what is the 50 year old supposed to do? Most of them have been at GM since they graduated high school. Building cars IS what they know!

While I am extremely happy that Flint got the contract for the volt, the fact stands that the hybrid engine and battery cost much more to produce. The battery alone costs over 7k, closer to 8k. Instead of just an engine and a transaxle, you have an electric motor, a battery, a whole bunch of different modules to control the system, plus a regenerative braking system.

Yes, I think we need to produce these, but will the general public buy them? The small cars that are being sold in Europe cheap, won't pass the emission and safety standards in the USA.

 

[Pin Wizard]

More details:

UAW killed the auto industry along with poor management.

GM should be left to fail and not bailed out by the government.

Actually, I'm all for Chrysler vanishing. They were bailed out once before. Why should they be bailed out again?

 

[Csaks]

AGAIN.... The only ones making a thousand a week take home are the ones that work lots of overtime. As far as if the work is hard we could debate that all day. Just like any place you are going to have some that do not work as hard as others. MOST do work hard...maybe you should try working on a truck assembly line.

I have no idea WHY you are blaming the workers for the economy but ok.

Gas prices was a HUGE deciding factor in low auto sales.

I don't know about the American worker but up here they are paid in the mid to high 20's an hour. Over time, yes but still a hell of a lot of money. I would love to work on the truck line because it's pretty easy according to my neighbours. Again they tell me the hardest part of the job is boredom. I am not blaming the entire thing on the workers but they and the UAW/ CAW are also to blame, never once have I heard up here unions rolling back wages or even a freeze in the bad times, always more, more and more no matter what. The economy killed the truck line up here, could it have been saved maybe if the cost to build a truck wasn't cost prohibitive, who knows.

You are married to an auto worker so we should agree to disagree.

 

[DawnCt1]

Actually, I'm all for Chrysler vanishing. They were bailed out once before. Why should they be bailed out again?

Lee Iacocca asked for a "bail out", which was a loan. He paid that back in full, in less than half of the time that was required and Chrysler exceeded expectations after that, and continued to do well on his watch.

 

[DawnCt1]

GMAC Bank is obviously out there, looking for an infusion of cash. They are offering high CD rates that are FDIC insured.


Balance Term Rate APY
$500 or more 3 months 3.35% 3.41%
6 months 3.92% 4.00%
9 months 3.73% 3.80%
12 months 4.27% 4.36%
18 months 4.31% 4.40%
2 years 4.40% 4.50%
3 years 4.45% 4.55%
4 years 4.64% 4.75%
5 years 5.02% 5.15%