United Auto Workers Union

[JimFitz]

Way to go!




No Bailout $$$ for the Auto Industry

 

[JR6ooo4]

Way to go!




No Bailout $$$ for the Auto Industry

if you posted some details you might get more respectable replies.

Should we be giving money to corporations to not sell us stuff? Or should we be giving money to you and me to buy stuff?

Mikeeee

 

[gmboy95]

Way to go!




No Bailout $$$ for the Auto Industry

huh?????

 

[JimFitz]

More details:

UAW killed the auto industry along with poor management.

GM should be left to fail and not bailed out by the government.

 

[gmboy95]

More details:

UAW killed the auto industry along with poor management.

GM should be left to fail and not bailed out by the government.

UAW saved the auto workers from slave labor.....and it must be nice to wish for thousands to lose there jobs....wow

 

[JimFitz]

UAW saved the auto workers from slave labor.....and it must be nice to wish for thousands to lose there jobs....wow

UAW saved people from slave labor???

People losing jobs is sad but the auto industry is on life support and needs the plug pulled. Let free markets trade.

 

[AndyLL]

UAW saved the auto workers from slave labor.....and it must be nice to wish for thousands to lose there jobs....wow

CNN reported that if one of the big 3 goes down up to 1-2 million could lose thier jobs because all the other companies that support them.

 

[Tinks]

It's sad, but the days of large corporations carrying you cradle to grave are over. Companies just can't afford to pay Americans what they want so they are forced to take those jobs overseas where the labor is cheaper.

I don't blame the UAW. I also don't blame the corporations. It is what it is, and that stinks.

We, as Americans, expect too much. The market can't and won't (and shouldn't have to, sorry) sustain us at that price.

I agree. NO bailout.

 

[fkj2]

It's sad, but the days of large corporations carrying you cradle to grave are over. Companies just can't afford to pay Americans what they want so they are forced to take those jobs overseas where the labor is cheaper.

I don't blame the UAW. I also don't blame the corporations. It is what it is, and that stinks.

We, as Americans, expect too much. The market can't and won't (and shouldn't have to, sorry) sustain us at that price.

I agree. NO bailout.

As long as the automakers could pass along increased car costs, the UAW wanted more and better benefits. They just never saw an end to the money coming, and neither did the automakers themselves.

I'm so angry that the automakers have the nerve to ask the government for money to help administer their employees' health care costs. It's great: I'm paying for my own insurance, have a high deductible, and now GM & Company want my tax dollars to pay for health insurance costs for autoworkers who've had great benefits forever.

Great. Just great.

 

[#1hockeymom]

These would be the same auto companies that helped win ww2.

It would be MILLIONS of jobs lost, not thousands.

Benefits have already been cut by Ford and GM. I don't know about Chrysler but I am assuming the same. This is white collar and blue collar benefits.

It would be the nail in the coffin of this country.

 

[JimFitz]

These would be the same auto companies that helped win ww2.

It would be MILLIONS of jobs lost, not thousands.

Benefits have already been cut by Ford and GM. I don't know about Chrysler but I am assuming the same. This is white collar and blue collar benefits.

It would be the nail in the coffin of this country.

Not a nail in the coffin and it's going to happen. Unemployment will reach 10% and then it will be over and solid companies will be left standing.

Fact remains the American car companies make crappy cars. I would love to "buy American" but can't anymore due to quality issues.

 

[LuvOrlando]

I am totally against propping up failing US industries. These band-aids don't fix anything, they merely prolong the agony because non displaced workers never have any motivation to learn new skills etc. US automakers have had decades to improve their products to match foreign cars, yet here we are and their products are still abysmally behind the performance of foreign cars in all areas of rating. If it wasn't for Japanese cars we'd never have gotten any hybrids and if it wasn't for German engineering we never have gotten any advances in safety. It seems like after we invented the car we stopped thinking.

I am also not in favor of losing American jobs but what I just don't get is why people have not taken it upon themselves to re-train. I don't live in car country but I think Michael Moore's Roger & me was fairly representative of what he saw in his own home town, so why is it no-one saw the writing on the wall? I mean its been 20 years since that film and people are still stuck in that rut. Learn a skill, cut hair or work on cars or pick up a trade like welding, plumbing or nails and then move.

More to the point, I am sick to my stomach that these bail-outs have no strings attached. All this money we "THINK' is bailing out industries is given free & clear and instead ends up paying off "contractually obligated bonus'". Citibank just got a bundle and that's where it is going. The whole mechanism is revolting. Frankly, I'd be fine, as a taxpayer, with closing those companies and paying for free training and even for helping these people move to places with jobs. I am not behind welfare industries that can't pull their own weight.

 

[#1hockeymom]

Not a nail in the coffin and it's going to happen. Unemployment will reach 10% and then it will be over and solid companies will be left standing.

Fact remains the American car companies make crappy cars. I would love to "buy American" but can't anymore due to quality issues.

Unemployment is already over 10 percent in Flint.

I guess you don't read JD Powers? You're not as informed as you pretend to be. Kind of like the guy who told me his volvo was better than my freestyle, even though they come off the same assembly line by the same people.

 

[#1hockeymom]

1. Which country can boast that their brands occupy 2 of the top 3 spots for long-term reliability?

Answer: United States.
Per J.D. Power Vehicle Dependability Study, Mercury and Cadillac are in the top 3, along with Lexus. And in 2007, Buick was tied with Lexus for the top spot.
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008115

2. As of August 2007, which manufacturer had the most recalled vehicles in the U.S. for that year?

Answer: Volkswagen.
According to Business Week, Volkswagen had the most recalls at this time a year ago. The second worst was Toyota.
http://www.businessweek.com/autos /content/aug2007/bw20070810_455098.htm

3. Pick the brand from each group that has the highest initial quality.
a. Answer : Cadillac (better than both Acura and BMW)
b. Answer: Mercury (better than both Honda and Nissan)
c. Answer: Chevrolet (better than Acura, BMW, and Mazda)
This is according to J.D. Power’s Initial Quality S urvey.
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008063

4. Which midsize sedan has the highest initial quality?

Answer: The Chevrolet Malibu has better initial quality than any competitor, including the Honda Accord, Toyota Camry and Nissan Altima. The Ford Fusion also beat all 3 Japanese competitors.
This too is from the J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey, which also reveals that above average are American brands Mercury, Ford, Cadillac, Chevrolet , Pontiac, Lincoln, and Buick. Below average are import brands Acura, Kia, Nissan, BMW, Mazda, VW, Subaru, and Scion (and several others).
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/articles/2008-Initial-Quality:-Midsize-and-Large-Cars
http://www.jdpower. com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008063

5. Which large sedan has the highest initial quality?

Answer: Again per J.D. Power, the highest quality large car is the Pontiac Grand Prix, beating the Toyota Avalon. Two other Detroit cars that beat the Avalon are the Mercury Sable and Mercury Grand Marquis.
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/articles/2008-Initial-Quality:-Midsize-and-Large-Cars

6. Which midsize pickup has the highest initial quality?

Answer: The Dodge Dakota has the best quality for midsize pickups, proving that Chrysler too can beat the imports. Both the Dakota and the Ford Ranger beat the Toyota Tacoma.
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/articles/2008-Initial-Quality:-Pickups-and-Vans

7. Which car is the most economical overall?

Answer: Per Edmunds.com, the premier automotive analysis site, the most economical car in America, taking into account not only mileage but all costs, is the Chevrolet Ave o. The Honda Fit is #3 and the Toyota Prius is a distant #34.
http://www.edmunds.com/help/about/press/127806/article.html

8. Which car did the Los Angeles Times describe as “a better car than BMW or Mercedes or Lexus or Infiniti”?

Answer: “Cadillac makes a better car than BMW or Mercedes or Lexus or Infiniti, and that car is the 2008 CTS. No other car in the mass market dares so much as this expressive and audacious bit of automotive avant-gardism.” Dan Neil, LA Times.
http://www.latimes.com/classified/automotive/highway1/la-hy-neil12dec12-pg,0,5427133.photogallery

9. Which company makes the winner of the 2008 “Green Car of the Year” award?

Answer: The Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid is the winner of this award. How could a full-size SUV defeat the media darling Toyota Prius? Read the link below and you will discover, “What’s equally eye-opening is that the Tahoe’s 21 mpg city fuel efficiency rating is the same as that of the city EPA rating for the four-cylinder Toyota Camry sedan. ”

Did you catch that?=2 0 A huge, full-size SUV from Chevrolet that gets the same city mileage as a 4-cylinder Toyota Camry!! Chevy obtained this remarkable achievement through the use of its 2-mode hybrid system, a technology that Toyota does not have.
http://www.greencar.com/features/2008greencar/

10. Which car was selected by the North American automotive press corps as the “North American Car of the Year” for 2007?

Answer: Not only was the Saturn Aura picked by the automotive press corps as better than the Honda Fit and the Toyota Camry, “When a panel of 47 journalists named the Saturn Aura the North American Car of the Year over the Toyota Camry, the vote wasn't even close, 205-89.” C hicago Tribune, 1/15/07
http://www.northamericancaroftheyear.org/news.html

11. Which car won the same award for 2008?

Answer: GM again crushed the Japanese competition in 2008 when the Malibu received 190 votes to the Honda Accord’s 95. The Accord actually came in 3rd since GM’s other finalist, the Cadillac CTS, received 165 votes.
http://www.northamericancaroftheyear.org/news.html

12. Which company had a luxury vehicle, a midsize sedan, and a large truck removed from the Consumer Reports recommended vehicles list in Oct ober 2007 because of mounting quality problems?

Answer: Toyota’s much publicized quality problems resulted in Consumer Reports actually removing from their recommended vehicles list the Lexus GS luxury car, Camry V6 sedan, and Tundra pickup. This demotion occurred in October 2007.

This Q &A list was put together by an employee of an American car company who just might lose his job because of public perceptions that do not match reality. If you are one of the many Americans who gave up on Detroit’s cars because of a bad experience many years ago, it’s time to rethink your position. Rethink Detroit.




Detroit automakers: 79 U.S. jobs per 2,500 cars sold in America.
Foreign automakers: 33 U.S. jobs per 2,500 cars sold in America.

 

[Took]

It's sad, but the days of large corporations carrying you cradle to grave are over. Companies just can't afford to pay Americans what they want so they are forced to take those jobs overseas where the labor is cheaper.

I don't blame the UAW. I also don't blame the corporations. It is what it is, and that stinks.

We, as Americans, expect too much. The market can't and won't (and shouldn't have to, sorry) sustain us at that price.

I agree. NO bailout.

Poor management killed the auto industry. Lack of vision and stupid policies. Oh yeah. And WAY overpaying their top executives while insisting they had "no money" to pay workers (who were portrayed as greedy).

 

[JimFitz]

1. Which country can boast that their brands occupy 2 of the top 3 spots for long-term reliability?

Answer: United States.
Per J.D. Power Vehicle Dependability Study, Mercury and Cadillac are in the top 3, along with Lexus. And in 2007, Buick was tied with Lexus for the top spot.
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008115

2. As of August 2007, which manufacturer had the most recalled vehicles in the U.S. for that year?

Answer: Volkswagen.
According to Business Week, Volkswagen had the most recalls at this time a year ago. The second worst was Toyota.
http://www.businessweek.com/autos /content/aug2007/bw20070810_455098.htm

3. Pick the brand from each group that has the highest initial quality.
a. Answer : Cadillac (better than both Acura and BMW)
b. Answer: Mercury (better than both Honda and Nissan)
c. Answer: Chevrolet (better than Acura, BMW, and Mazda)
This is according to J.D. Power’s Initial Quality S urvey.
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008063

4. Which midsize sedan has the highest initial quality?

Answer: The Chevrolet Malibu has better initial quality than any competitor, including the Honda Accord, Toyota Camry and Nissan Altima. The Ford Fusion also beat all 3 Japanese competitors.
This too is from the J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey, which also reveals that above average are American brands Mercury, Ford, Cadillac, Chevrolet , Pontiac, Lincoln, and Buick. Below average are import brands Acura, Kia, Nissan, BMW, Mazda, VW, Subaru, and Scion (and several others).
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/articles/2008-Initial-Quality:-Midsize-and-Large-Cars
http://www.jdpower. com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008063

5. Which large sedan has the highest initial quality?

Answer: Again per J.D. Power, the highest quality large car is the Pontiac Grand Prix, beating the Toyota Avalon. Two other Detroit cars that beat the Avalon are the Mercury Sable and Mercury Grand Marquis.
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/articles/2008-Initial-Quality:-Midsize-and-Large-Cars

6. Which midsize pickup has the highest initial quality?

Answer: The Dodge Dakota has the best quality for midsize pickups, proving that Chrysler too can beat the imports. Both the Dakota and the Ford Ranger beat the Toyota Tacoma.
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/articles/2008-Initial-Quality:-Pickups-and-Vans

7. Which car is the most economical overall?

Answer: Per Edmunds.com, the premier automotive analysis site, the most economical car in America, taking into account not only mileage but all costs, is the Chevrolet Ave o. The Honda Fit is #3 and the Toyota Prius is a distant #34.
http://www.edmunds.com/help/about/press/127806/article.html

8. Which car did the Los Angeles Times describe as “a better car than BMW or Mercedes or Lexus or Infiniti”?

Answer: “Cadillac makes a better car than BMW or Mercedes or Lexus or Infiniti, and that car is the 2008 CTS. No other car in the mass market dares so much as this expressive and audacious bit of automotive avant-gardism.” Dan Neil, LA Times.
http://www.latimes.com/classified/automotive/highway1/la-hy-neil12dec12-pg,0,5427133.photogallery

9. Which company makes the winner of the 2008 “Green Car of the Year” award?

Answer: The Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid is the winner of this award. How could a full-size SUV defeat the media darling Toyota Prius? Read the link below and you will discover, “What’s equally eye-opening is that the Tahoe’s 21 mpg city fuel efficiency rating is the same as that of the city EPA rating for the four-cylinder Toyota Camry sedan. ”

Did you catch that?=2 0 A huge, full-size SUV from Chevrolet that gets the same city mileage as a 4-cylinder Toyota Camry!! Chevy obtained this remarkable achievement through the use of its 2-mode hybrid system, a technology that Toyota does not have.
http://www.greencar.com/features/2008greencar/

10. Which car was selected by the North American automotive press corps as the “North American Car of the Year” for 2007?

Answer: Not only was the Saturn Aura picked by the automotive press corps as better than the Honda Fit and the Toyota Camry, “When a panel of 47 journalists named the Saturn Aura the North American Car of the Year over the Toyota Camry, the vote wasn't even close, 205-89.” C hicago Tribune, 1/15/07
http://www.northamericancaroftheyear.org/news.html

11. Which car won the same award for 2008?

Answer: GM again crushed the Japanese competition in 2008 when the Malibu received 190 votes to the Honda Accord’s 95. The Accord actually came in 3rd since GM’s other finalist, the Cadillac CTS, received 165 votes.
http://www.northamericancaroftheyear.org/news.html

12. Which company had a luxury vehicle, a midsize sedan, and a large truck removed from the Consumer Reports recommended vehicles list in Oct ober 2007 because of mounting quality problems?

Answer: Toyota’s much publicized quality problems resulted in Consumer Reports actually removing from their recommended vehicles list the Lexus GS luxury car, Camry V6 sedan, and Tundra pickup. This demotion occurred in October 2007.

This Q &A list was put together by an employee of an American car company who just might lose his job because of public perceptions that do not match reality. If you are one of the many Americans who gave up on Detroit’s cars because of a bad experience many years ago, it’s time to rethink your position. Rethink Detroit.




Detroit automakers: 79 U.S. jobs per 2,500 cars sold in America.
Foreign automakers: 33 U.S. jobs per 2,500 cars sold in America.

While these facts may be true (not sure) it just may be due to the fact that Honda and (I believe) Toyota manufactured many of these cars in the US or Mexico, not Japan. The Japanese blow us away in quality control. Why they were'nt able to apply those standards here makes me wonder.....culture????.....Unions????

Wait...it's almost 10am...time for my mandatory coffee break.

Unions....Blah!

 

[#1hockeymom]

I am totally against propping up failing US industries. These band-aids don't fix anything, they merely prolong the agony because non displaced workers never have any motivation to learn new skills etc. US automakers have had decades to improve their products to match foreign cars, yet here we are and their products are still abysmally behind the performance of foreign cars in all areas of rating. If it wasn't for Japanese cars we'd never have gotten any hybrids and if it wasn't for German engineering we never have gotten any advances in safety. It seems like after we invented the car we stopped thinking.

I am also not in favor of losing American jobs but what I just don't get is why people have not taken it upon themselves to re-train. I don't live in car country but I think Michael Moore's Roger & me was fairly representative of what he saw in his own home town, so why is it no-one saw the writing on the wall? I mean its been 20 years since that film and people are still stuck in that rut. Learn a skill, cut hair or work on cars or pick up a trade like welding, plumbing or nails and then move.

More to the point, I am sick to my stomach that these bail-outs have no strings attached. All this money we "THINK' is bailing out industries is given free & clear and instead ends up paying off "contractually obligated bonus'". Citibank just got a bundle and that's where it is going. The whole mechanism is revolting. Frankly, I'd be fine, as a taxpayer, with closing those companies and paying for free training and even for helping these people move to places with jobs. I am not behind welfare industries that can't pull their own weight.

Roger and Me was NOT a representation of the auto workers.

Where do you get your info that the people laid off don't want to learn a new trade or get a degree? A glaring majority do, but who is going to hire them when the businesses where they apply are also laying off due to trickle down unemployment.

You can keep saying, "they're doing it wrong" until it hits your area. When it does, you'll see just how many jobs and industries are affected and watch your job disappear in the fray.

 

[JimFitz]

Roger and Me was NOT a representation of the auto workers.

Where do you get your info that the people laid off don't want to learn a new trade or get a degree? A glaring majority do, but who is going to hire them when the businesses where they apply are also laying off due to trickle down unemployment.

You can keep saying, "they're doing it wrong" until it hits your area. When it does, you'll see just how many jobs and industries are affected and watch your job disappear in the fray.

Job loss and trickle down unemployment are terrible..no one can deny that.

Also, you are correct, it's easier to judge when you don't live in an impacted area. That being said, the Unions and SOME big automakers are done. The unions and management got greedy and ruined a good thing. Janitors making 80k about 6 years ago???? Makes you wonder.

 

[#1hockeymom]

While these facts may be true (not sure) it just may be due to the fact that Honda and (I believe) Toyota manufactured many of these cars in the US or Mexico, not Japan. The Japanese blow us away in quality control. Why they were'nt able to apply those standards here makes me wonder.....culture????.....Unions????

Wait...it's almost 10am...time for my mandatory coffee break.

Unions....Blah!

Have you ever been in an auto plant? I was in one last summer. They work their butts off and are doing ten times what they did in the seventies. It is a different industry now. Few people could keep up with what one plant worker does over the course of their work day. Growing up we had field trips to the plants yearly, so I can compare.

 

[jodifla]

More details:

UAW killed the auto industry along with poor management.

GM should be left to fail and not bailed out by the government.

If they let the car companies fail, 10 percent of all American jobs would be lost across the country. The ripple effect would be staggering. It would truly be another Great Depression.

It would also severely impact, if not cripple, our ability to manufacture goods needed for war.

So in spite of all the really bad decisions by the Big 3, they can't be allowed to fail.