Ticket price increase coming at Walt Disney World!

[lockedoutlogic]

They're not worried about this at all, unfortunately. They're not targeting the average middle class consumer or family anymore. They now target the top 10% who have consistent incomes, don't have much debt, not usually affected much by the economic downturns, able to pay for their kid's college, etc. There's a certain chunk of the population in this category, and they're very very profitable to target. Personally, I don't think that's what Disney should be, but I understand that's what a corporation is looking for.

Targeting the top 10% won't provide enough bodies to make the parks profitable...they'd all have to go. And when they get there - they'd have to charge them much more than now to make a buck.

It's a dead end cycle that only appeases the quarterly call.

I've said this again and I'll say it again:
ESPN sucks and the model is dead

They need a new CEO yesterday

Disney parks are a middle class destination and always will be.

See...I just wrote a market analysis and I don't even get 7 figures from Moody's...how easy is that?

 

[kbelle8995]

When it starts hurting their bottom line you will see Disney stop raising their ticket prices. But not until then.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

When it starts hurting their bottom line you will see Disney stop raising their ticket prices. But not until then.

Well...yeah...

But the caveat is that was NOT their standard business model until fairly recently.

It wasn't that prices weren't raised - they were...but there's a cocktail of ALL prices being raised with regularity, decline in what's include in those prices, factioning off of parts of days to repackage and sells...

...these are interesting times.

 

[WDW1979]

Oh I agree. Disney may have already hit that current limit. Raising prices now probably wasn't the best idea for them.

I mentioned in another thread that WDW has literally seen decades between major additions at the parks.
AK- Everest to Avatar 2006-2017
DHS- RnRc to TSM to toy story land 1999-2008-2018
Epcot- test track to Soarin to frozen 1999-2005-2016
MK- Splash to New Fantasyland 1992-2012/2014

Good observations. And regarding MK, while New Fantasyland brought two new rides, old Fantasyland lost two since Splash (Frontierland) opened in 1992: 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea and Snow White, so the net gain is zero rides in Fantasyland vs. 1992 (maybe even negative one net ride if you count the loss of the Skyway). For me, I don't count the addition of permanently-housed meet-and-greets on the same level as other rides/attractions, though others may differ. Be Our Guest restaurant is great.

IMHO, Tomorrowland needs a new E-ticket attraction and a couple of new D-ticket attractions. For my family, Tomorrowland is Space Mountain, the WEDway People Mover, and Carrousel of Progress. The Stitch show is bad, Buzz Lightyear is fun but not so much "Tomorrow" as "Shoot the Aliens", and the Speedway should be a "Land" on its own. Speaking of the Speedway, that's a lot of nice real estate that could house a new E-ticket ride, and more, in Tomorrowland.

We skipped our otherwise annual Disney World trip in 2015 due to rising Disney World prices and a weak Canadian dollar. The Canadian ticket deal may bring us back (I am Canadian though my profile picture is Sam the Eagle with USA flag because I love America).

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Good observations. And regarding MK, while New Fantasyland brought two new rides, old Fantasyland lost two since Splash (Frontierland) opened in 1992: 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea and Snow White, so the net gain is zero rides in Fantasyland vs. 1992 (maybe even negative one net ride if you count the loss of the Skyway). For me, I don't count the addition of permanently-housed meet-and-greets on the same level as other rides/attractions, though others may differ. Be Our Guest restaurant is great.

IMHO, Tomorrowland needs a new E-ticket attraction and a couple of new D-ticket attractions. For my family, Tomorrowland is Space Mountain, the WEDway People Mover, and Carrousel of Progress. The Stitch show is bad, Buzz Lightyear is fun but not so much "Tomorrow" as "Shoot the Aliens", and the Speedway should be a "Land" on its own. Speaking of the Speedway, that's a lot of nice real estate that could house a new E-ticket ride, and more, in Tomorrowland.

Yeah...lack of significant investment/frequency in the face of accelerating price hikes...

Wish I woulda thought of that...

 

[OldsDr]

These price hikes seem to in effect be a way to concurrently pay(at least partially) for the construction for avatar, toy story land and Star wars. I personally don't think avatar or Toy story will make too many people plan a trip who otherwise wouldn't. They may make them postpone a trip for a year, but that nets zero for WDW. Star Wars I think will make people plan a trip who otherwise would not.

However, a lot of those Star Wars Fans may not necessarily be WDW fans. Those types of fans probably don't care too much about "leaving the magic" and staying off property and eating off property. They may not even care about going to MK, EP or AK.

This whole thing seems like a huge miscalculation on what mainly Star wars land, and to a lesser extent avatar and Toy story land will add to the demand of the overall product as the price of everything seems to be going up at an increasing rate. (especially if they try to cut corners on Star wars land)

On a side note I was talking to two people this weekend at my sons basketball. When Avatar came up the response from both was almost simultaneous "But that's so old" Toy Story and Star Wars are older, but they did not get that same reaction probably because they still hold relevance.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

These price hikes seem to in effect be a way to concurrently pay(at least partially) for the construction for avatar, toy story land and Star wars. I personally don't think avatar or Toy story will make too many people plan a trip who otherwise wouldn't. They may make them postpone a trip for a year, but that nets zero for WDW. Star Wars I think will make people plan a trip who otherwise would not.

However, a lot of those Star Wars Fans may not necessarily be WDW fans. Those types of fans probably don't care too much about "leaving the magic" and staying off property and eating off property. They may not even care about going to MK, EP or AK.

This whole thing seems like a huge miscalculation on what mainly Star wars land, and to a lesser extent avatar and Toy story land will add to the demand of the overall product as the price of everything seems to be going up at an increasing rate. (especially if they try to cut corners on Star wars land)

On a side note I was talking to two people this weekend at my sons basketball. When Avatar came up the response from both was almost simultaneous "But that's so old" Toy Story and Star Wars are older, but they did not get that same reaction probably because they still hold relevance.

Star Wars diehards are just as phoney as Disney diehards...

By that...I mean they talk a good game and say they'll boycott things...but quietly they go behind the scenes and consume it anyway.

My point is that the Majority of Star Wars fans have accepted their fate and will have no qualms giving money to Disney - including travel.

 

[OldsDr]

Star Wars diehards are just as phoney as Disney diehards...

By that...I mean they talk a good game and say they'll boycott things...but quietly they go behind the scenes and consume it anyway.

My point is that the Majority of Star Wars fans have accepted their fate and will have no qualms giving money to Disney - including travel.

I understand what you are saying.

But are the Star Wars fans good for a 5 - 7 day on property stay. Or do they come down buy a 2 day ticket and stay at the courtyard on I drive and eat at Black Angus. Are they one and done or are they repeat customers, I think it is the price that will tell. (Ill give you they will also be good for a light saber or two from the gift shops)

With years of ticket price increases between now and when SW opens, how much will be enough. Are they mortgaging too much on the popularity of Star Wars?

I truly believe (maybe it is a lot of hope mixed in with that belief) based on the 5% dip that the lemmings may be beginning to question their path.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I understand what you are saying.

But are the Star Wars fans good for a 5 - 7 day on property stay. Or do they come down buy a 2 day ticket and stay at the courtyard on I drive and eat at Black Angus. Are they one and done or are they repeat customers, I think it is the price that will tell. (Ill give you they will also be good for a light saber or two from the gift shops)

With years of ticket price increases between now and when SW opens, how much will be enough. Are they mortgaging too much on the popularity of Star Wars?

I truly believe (maybe it is a lot of hope mixed in with that belief) based on the 5% dip that the lemmings may be beginning to question their path.

It's an interesting thing to watch...

You know that nobody around here follows cost/value like me...and the bleed in attendance is definite a "real" issue now as opposed to my hypothetical in the housing crash.

It's real and I don't think it's gonna reverse now.

It's as though 5 years ago iger just decided "hey! We're luxury now...sell it!"

That's desperation because the free money of ESPN is ending and they have spent incredible amounts of money on IP and hoping china becomes "America II" (it isn't...and that's was folly)

I blame the line for mine train and the fireworks deserts...they are STILL amusement parks that have their caste/place...even if they are nicer. This quest for "elite" as an elaborate hoax on the consumer...will collapse.

 

[MouseyMin]

I understand and agree with the premise mentioned here that Disney doesn't seem to care as much about high attendance as they do per guest spending, which leads to increased profits.

However, this does not seem to correlate with the recent discounts and perks given to AP holders: the Gold ticket only went up a few bucks, new 20% food and merchandise discounts, AP entrance line, etc.

I read over and over again that Disney does not care much for frequent guests, as they don't buy many souvenirs, eat partially off site, and have mastered the art of doing Disney World cheaply. So why the sudden interest by Disney in giving perks to AP and DVC members, when, for years now, these perks and discounts were mostly taken away as they much preferred first-time visitors?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I understand and agree with the premise mentioned here that Disney doesn't seem to care as much about high attendance as they do per guest spending, which leads to increased profits.

However, this does not seem to correlate with the recent discounts and perks given to AP holders: the Gold ticket only went up a few bucks, new 20% food and merchandise discounts, AP entrance line, etc.

I read over and over again that Disney does not care much for frequent guests, as they don't buy many souvenirs, eat partially off site, and have mastered the art of doing Disney World cheaply. So why the sudden interest by Disney in giving perks to AP and DVC members, when, for years now, these perks and discounts were mostly taken away as they much preferred first-time visitors?

They significantly changed the structure of the aps in October 2015...so the "lack" of raise this year is in that context...it will be around again soon enough (my guess is 10/2017)...the average raise last year was 10-20% and introduced blackout dates in many cases never seen before.

And the "discounts" on food and beverage are not losses. The profit levels on merchandise can be as high as 90%...that's where all the money is made. They lose little if anything with that.

 

[OldsDr]

...
I read over and over again that Disney does not care much for frequent guests, as they don't buy many souvenirs, eat partially off site, and have mastered the art of doing Disney World cheaply. ...

This here is a major complaint of mine. The reason a lot of regular customers don't buy as many souvenirs and eat on property is mostly to blame on "Disney Parks". mentality

I stopped buying souvenirs when all of them were the same year after year, maybe the year would change but that doesn't count. The thread count on T-Shirts was noticeably less. I used to buy a new pocket watch every year, then all of the sudden watches both pocket(until they were totally gone) and wrist were the same year over year. When the emporium side of Main st, and (I am drawing a blank on the name of the large store at epcot) became World of Disney II and III it killed the uniqueness.

I stopped caring about eating on property when every menu was the same cut of chicken and same cut of beef. When each restaurant went from a unique drink menu to something it looks like they put in their pocket and copied from TGI Fridays.

I understand the value of buying in bulk, and the ROI when all parks are selling the same stuff. That philosophy only works when you are bringing new people and a lot of them in year after year. Once people start seeing the same thing every where the uniqueness wears off and the prices make new customers look elsewhere to vacation and you upset your loyal base the theory falls apart.

 

[ChipnDale79]

This here is a major complaint of mine. The reason a lot of regular customers don't buy as many souvenirs and eat on property is mostly to blame on "Disney Parks". mentality

I stopped buying souvenirs when all of them were the same year after year, maybe the year would change but that doesn't count. The thread count on T-Shirts was noticeably less. I used to buy a new pocket watch every year, then all of the sudden watches both pocket(until they were totally gone) and wrist were the same year over year. When the emporium side of Main st, and (I am drawing a blank on the name of the large store at epcot) became World of Disney II and III it killed the uniqueness.

I stopped caring about eating on property when every menu was the same cut of chicken and same cut of beef. When each restaurant went from a unique drink menu to something it looks like they put in their pocket and copied from TGI Fridays.

I understand the value of buying in bulk, and the ROI when all parks are selling the same stuff. That philosophy only works when you are bringing new people and a lot of them in year after year. Once people start seeing the same thing every where the uniqueness wears off and the prices make new customers look elsewhere to vacation and you upset your loyal base the theory falls apart.

Bingo. I think they've gotten a little better about this in the past year or tow. But I do not buy things that say "Disney Parks" on them, its too generic for me. I stopped buying Tshirts at WDW a few yeas ago, it seems to me that after 2 or 3 washes they shrink. I'm not wasting any more money on them.

Recently we've found these small toy buses that seem to change every year. We've bought them 4 years in a row for the boys, even years we didnt go to disney we have ordered them. They love them, and part of that is because they are different every year. I wish they offered more products like this that changed year after year, instead of having the same thing for over and over.

 

[dlavender]

I understand and agree with the premise mentioned here that Disney doesn't seem to care as much about high attendance as they do per guest spending, which leads to increased profits.

However, this does not seem to correlate with the recent discounts and perks given to AP holders: the Gold ticket only went up a few bucks, new 20% food and merchandise discounts, AP entrance line, etc.

I read over and over again that Disney does not care much for frequent guests, as they don't buy many souvenirs, eat partially off site, and have mastered the art of doing Disney World cheaply. So why the sudden interest by Disney in giving perks to AP and DVC members, when, for years now, these perks and discounts were mostly taken away as they much preferred first-time visitors?

It could also mean that they have, for now, found their price ceiling on AP's. They may have seen a decrease in these, which is why you see the offering of new incentives. They don't lower prices, so incentives is all they have.

 

[quandrea]

It could also mean that they have, for now, found their price ceiling on AP's. They may have seen a decrease in these, which is why you see the offering of new incentives. They don't lower prices, so incentives is all they have.

We've stopped buying APs. Hit the ceiling as you say. Our last AP was a gold pass in October 2015. Even then the purchase stung with the blackout dates. Going forward we will buy tickets for a few days here and there.

 

[crazy4wdw]

I just noticed that one-day tickets for Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays in October now fall in the peak price category.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I just noticed that one-day tickets for Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays in October now fall in the peak price category.

...because figment is classified as an "E ticket" those days

 

[TheGecko]

The recent ticket prices increases and structure has been interesting to say the least. It appears Disney wants to gear their entire experience to those guests staying on site. If you are offsite, you can buy tickets but your ticket price is going to be the same for a lesser experience. With all of the options for hotels/condos/rental homes close to the parks, it makes sense from their standpoint as an additional differentiation.

I am not a fan of the expiring tickets though, especially in this day in age where management of purchases is fully digital, and it used to be one of the features that set them apart. It also shows you that they plan to increase prices at a rate higher than inflation and what they expect can get on a reasonable investment of their own. I am just cringing what the costs will be once Toy Story and Star Wars land are open.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The recent ticket prices increases and structure has been interesting to say the least. It appears Disney wants to gear their entire experience to those guests staying on site. If you are offsite, you can buy tickets but your ticket price is going to be the same for a lesser experience. With all of the options for hotels/condos/rental homes close to the parks, it makes sense from their standpoint as an additional differentiation.

I am not a fan of the expiring tickets though, especially in this day in age where management of purchases is fully digital, and it used to be one of the features that set them apart. It also shows you that they plan to increase prices at a rate higher than inflation and what they expect can get on a reasonable investment of their own. I am just cringing what the costs will be once Toy Story and Star Wars land are open.

Toy story land isn't gonna be much of a bump...the other on the other hand?...yoi...

But to your point...I think it's pretty certain their strategy is to make the on property stays much more attractive - but at a huge price. They want it both ways.

So they can "punish" those daring to stay offsite, without a dining plan, and stray to see hog warts over mine train and a $60 a la carte breakfast...

...but the other side of that is this thrust to raise their own rates into oblivion...$300 "moderates" and DVC prices that will soon to "full payment up front" type levels.

Imagine: a world of 50,000,000 visitors who will all fly business class and have zero problems with $15,000 + weeks in amusement parks with a uniform menu and 4 nights a week where they randomly close the parks at 7 and then ask for another $150 a head to stay past sunset on the west coast...

It's a "great big beautiful tomorrow", no?

 

[crazy4wdw]

I am not a fan of the expiring tickets though, especially in this day in age where management of purchases is fully digital, and it used to be one of the features that set them apart. It also shows you that they plan to increase prices at a rate higher than inflation and what they expect can get on a reasonable investment of their own. I am just cringing what the costs will be once Toy Story and Star Wars land are open.

In a way, I'm glad I purchased several park hopper tickets a few years ago when the rumors started regarding the tiered ticket prices. I'm fairly much set for the next five to six years. I don't know if this was a wise investment of the money, but at least I don't have to worry about whatever ticket changes Disney has in store for the next few years. Just wish I had purchased a bunch of passes when Epcot Center opened in 1982, a 4 day World passport was $45 then.