This is just so sad,,and makes me ask WHY would someone do this?? I don't call it 'playing'??

[lorimay]

This litigation is not going to be played out in The USA, the ship is registered in The Bahama's, so **IF it goes to court it will be interesting to see the way it is handled.
This is why cruise lines register in countries other than the US.
Will it be dismissed? Will RCCL just settle? who knows.
I hope they don't, they do not seem to be culpable here.

 

[fly girl]

That isn't even close to what I said. If I thought you were not able to comprehend I would have said "then you aren't understanding what you read". I said "you aren't reading". Two very different statements.

We know that? Ok, then why does at least one poster keep referring back to the dangling/rocking/swinging?

And I never said YOU were doing anything to make it seem worse. That was aimed at one particular poster.

Really? It reads like an implication that I am lacking comprehension. Come on!! I have been part of this discussion from I think page 2. I have quoted, liked, and replied to posts including yours, every day. I think it is an easy deduction to see I am reading posts and an active participant in this discussion. I fully believe it was a dig. I don't care. It actually made me laugh.

Grandfather said he put her on the ledge! We don't know what he did after that. Maybe it was swinging/dangling/rocking. No one knows on here.

I didn't think you were aiming at me making it worse. I was saying that although you feel one poster is, that is your opinion. I am of the opinion that no one on here is trying to make the parents worse.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

This litigation is not going to be played out in The USA, the ship is registered in The Bahama's, so **IF it goes to court it will be interesting to see the way it is handled.
This is why cruise lines register in countries other than the US.
Will it be dismissed? Will RCCL just settle? who knows.
I hope they don't, they do not seem to be culpable here.

Litigation arising from a lawsuit does not really strike me as a main reason why ships are not reigstered in the U.S. It's complicated and includes an old archaic 1800s law and a variety of other such laws such as labor laws, where it's built, ports of call, cost of building in the U.S. exclusively, likely tax requirements, etc.

 

[msjprincess]

Litigation arising from a lawsuit does not really strike me as a main reason why ships are not reigstered in the U.S. It's complicated and includes an old archaic 1800s law and a variety of other such laws such as labor laws, where it's built, ports of call, cost of building in the U.S. exclusively, likely tax requirements, etc.

ITA

Plus, the ship is registered in the Bahamas but the company is based in the US. There have been other lawsuits against RCCL. They took place in Miami, where RCCL is based.

 

[luvsJack]

Really? It reads like an implication that I am lacking comprehension. Come on!! I have been part of this discussion from I think page 2. I have quoted, liked, and replied to posts including yours, every day. I think it is an easy deduction to see I am reading posts and an active participant in this discussion. I fully believe it was a dig. I don't care. It actually made me laugh.

Grandfather said he put her on the ledge! We don't know what he did after that. Maybe it was swinging/dangling/rocking. No one knows on here.

I didn't think you were aiming at me making it worse. I was saying that although you feel one poster is, that is your opinion. I am of the opinion that no one on here is trying to make the parents worse.

You seem very determined to take something very personally. No where did I say or imply that your comprehension was in question. I simply said "then you are not reading". Meaning you aren't reading all the posts, not that you aren't understanding them. But, hey, if you would rather take it as a dig, more power to you. I can assure you if that was the way I meant it, I would happily tell you that I meant it that way. I don't hide behind insinuations.

And you are welcome to your opinion. Doesn't make mine wrong.

 

[sam_gordon]

And you are welcome to your opinion. Doesn't make mine wrong.

So I'm curious... what exactly is your position?

 

[kaytieeldr]

You can call the area a dining area, you can call it a kid's area, you can call it a dance hall for all I care; its the perception that someone will have.

Sure. You can call it a bison if you want.

When there is enough space to drive two cars and park two cars. between the play area and the wIndows on each side but people refuse to comprehend that, it's misperception.

Ships, theme parks, pools, lakes, parks, zoos, your own yard all can have hidden dangers. That is what they are calling this is a hidden danger.

A wall of windows, whether they do or are open, is the antithesis of a "hidden" anything.

 

[luvsJack]

So I'm curious... what exactly is your position?

About what I was saying to the pp? That at least one person is steadily posting things that make the parents seem worse and worse.

About this case?

Well, I think it was a tragic accident. I think the grandfather is at least partially responsible. I think that the parents are grieving and looking for any answer that they can that doesn't blame the grandfather or just simply explains to them how this could happen. I think that its POSSIBLE that there is more the cruise line could have done to prevent such a horrible accident. I am not an investigator so I don't know that for sure. I haven't seen the video so I can't say what I think did or did not happen. I feel that its somewhere in the middle of all the different things that have been said. I do think that, for whatever reason, he did think there was glass in the window. According to the child's mother, it was the first thing he said to her. He was hysterical at the time. He is more apt to have said the truth to her at that moment. Maybe he didn't look, maybe he wasn't paying attention, maybe he has the IQ of a snail, I don't know, but I do believe he meant what he said. And to be completely honest, I don't know if anyone besides the family and the cruise line will ever know exactly what happened or why.

And lastly, I think that people who have a favorite place, business, cruise line, vacation spot, whatever, are very defensive about that thing. When the little boy was attacked by the alligator at Disney MANY people here were falling all over themselves to defend Disney. It didn't matter that Disney was the one who gave every idea in the world that the water was safe. It didn't matter that there needed to be a little more done to keep anyone from the water where the gators were. Disney was right no matter what. Now, they didn't sue Disney but I have a strong feeling that they didn't sue because they didn't have to.

Now, I am not saying I think the cruise line is in the wrong. I am saying I don't know. But I do know the cruise line isn't the devil. And neither are these parents or the grandfather.

 

[mom2rtk]

About what I was saying to the pp? That at least one person is steadily posting things that make the parents seem worse and worse.

About this case?

Well, I think it was a tragic accident. I think the grandfather is at least partially responsible. I think that the parents are grieving and looking for any answer that they can that doesn't blame the grandfather or just simply explains to them how this could happen. I think that its POSSIBLE that there is more the cruise line could have done to prevent such a horrible accident. I am not an investigator so I don't know that for sure. I haven't seen the video so I can't say what I think did or did not happen. I feel that its somewhere in the middle of all the different things that have been said. I do think that, for whatever reason, he did think there was glass in the window. According to the child's mother, it was the first thing he said to her. He was hysterical at the time. He is more apt to have said the truth to her at that moment. Maybe he didn't look, maybe he wasn't paying attention, maybe he has the IQ of a snail, I don't know, but I do believe he meant what he said. And to be completely honest, I don't know if anyone besides the family and the cruise line will ever know exactly what happened or why.

And lastly, I think that people who have a favorite place, business, cruise line, vacation spot, whatever, are very defensive about that thing. When the little boy was attacked by the alligator at Disney MANY people here were falling all over themselves to defend Disney. It didn't matter that Disney was the one who gave every idea in the world that the water was safe. It didn't matter that there needed to be a little more done to keep anyone from the water where the gators were. Disney was right no matter what. Now, they didn't sue Disney but I have a strong feeling that they didn't sue because they didn't have to.

Now, I am not saying I think the cruise line is in the wrong. I am saying I don't know. But I do know the cruise line isn't the devil. And neither are these parents or the grandfather.

I don't think anyone here has said the parents or grandfather are the devil. Just that they don't think the cruise line is responsible.

 

[luvsJack]

Sure. You can call it a bison if you want.

When there is enough space to drive two cars and park two cars. between the play area and the wIndows on each side but people refuse to comprehend that, it's misperception.

A wall of windows, whether they do or are open, is the antithesis of a "hidden" anything.

Who isn't comprehending it? I didn't call it a kid's area. They did. I totally understand. But that isn't how its advertised. That's not the pictures that are shown.

I didn't say it was a hidden anything. again, they did.

 

[fly girl]

You seem very determined to take something very personally. No where did I say or imply that your comprehension was in question. I simply said "then you are not reading". Meaning you aren't reading all the posts, not that you aren't understanding them. But, hey, if you would rather take it as a dig, more power to you. I can assure you if that was the way I meant it, I would happily tell you that I meant it that way. I don't hide behind insinuations.

And you are welcome to your opinion. Doesn't make mine wrong.

And I NEVER said yours was wrong! You seem very determined to think I have a problem with your opinion. I absolutely do not. If I did, please show me so I can apologize.

ETA: It is obvious we aren't seeing eye to eye today. That's ok. Let's just move on.

 

[AurumPunzel]

This litigation is not going to be played out in The USA, the ship is registered in The Bahama's, so **IF it goes to court it will be interesting to see the way it is handled.
This is why cruise lines register in countries other than the US.
Will it be dismissed? Will RCCL just settle? who knows.
I hope they don't, they do not seem to be culpable here.

Flagging in another sovereign country is just utilising a flag of convenience, mainly to take advantage of legislation that would make practices under the same flag as the registered company's impossible. Cunard for example had to reregister their ships in another Crown Colony (in their case, Bermuda) in order to enable them to offer sea weddings, which would have been impossible if they continued to fly the British flag, despite riling traditionalists who feel that Cunard have sold out to the rest of the cruise industry in exploiting flags of convenience.

 

[robinb]

This incident has made me appreciate how the Graves family (the child killed by an alligator) handled their similar situation. And how they didn't lash out. They seemingly accepted their culpability in that situation (whatever degree that is), and turned a tragedy into something more lasting than tabloid fodder.

I would venture to say that at one of the reasons why Lane's parents did not sue Disney is the way Disney responded to the accident. Disney responded to the possible danger immediately and put up a fence at the GF the very next day. That immediate response was to prevent another accident that is so rare that only 8 people have died from an alligator attack in the US in the past 10 years. They saw a very remote danger and followed through on a solution. RCCL is giving the family of the little girl the corporate equivalent to "thoughts and prayers".

 

[morgan98]

About what I was saying to the pp? That at least one person is steadily posting things that make the parents seem worse and worse.

About this case?

Well, I think it was a tragic accident. I think the grandfather is at least partially responsible. I think that the parents are grieving and looking for any answer that they can that doesn't blame the grandfather or just simply explains to them how this could happen. I think that its POSSIBLE that there is more the cruise line could have done to prevent such a horrible accident. I am not an investigator so I don't know that for sure. I haven't seen the video so I can't say what I think did or did not happen. I feel that its somewhere in the middle of all the different things that have been said. I do think that, for whatever reason, he did think there was glass in the window. According to the child's mother, it was the first thing he said to her. He was hysterical at the time. He is more apt to have said the truth to her at that moment. Maybe he didn't look, maybe he wasn't paying attention, maybe he has the IQ of a snail, I don't know, but I do believe he meant what he said. And to be completely honest, I don't know if anyone besides the family and the cruise line will ever know exactly what happened or why.

And lastly, I think that people who have a favorite place, business, cruise line, vacation spot, whatever, are very defensive about that thing. When the little boy was attacked by the alligator at Disney MANY people here were falling all over themselves to defend Disney. It didn't matter that Disney was the one who gave every idea in the world that the water was safe. It didn't matter that there needed to be a little more done to keep anyone from the water where the gators were. Disney was right no matter what. Now, they didn't sue Disney but I have a strong feeling that they didn't sue because they didn't have to.

Now, I am not saying I think the cruise line is in the wrong. I am saying I don't know. But I do know the cruise line isn't the devil. And neither are these parents or the grandfather.

I know this is a Disney board, but I am not a huge Disney fan quite frankly. I don't go often, nor do I cruise. I honestly don't think people are defending or being defensive because they like cruising. It is that this was a horrible accident and there is such a thing as personal responsibility. Those that believe the grandfather's actions are what placed the girl in danger and resulted in her tragic death, think that it did not happen because of anything the cruise line did or didn't do.

I don't think anyone said the grandfather is the devil. He had a lapse in judgment...a very tragic one. Does not mean that the blame lies with anyone or anything else.

ETA: It all just seems like a tragic sequence of events. I still don't understand exactly how it happened. The grandfather had to have lifted the little girl up to the balcony at just the right height and she had to be just the right size, at the right angle, etc to actually fall out the window. He had to deliberately stop, lift her up and align her with the window. This just did not "happen." I too am sure he feels horrible - not sure how he is even surviving at this point. Still not sure that makes anyone or anything else partially responsible. It would be easier for everyone to have someone else to blame.

 

[soccerdad72]

I would venture to say that at one of the reasons why Lane's parents did not sue Disney is the way Disney responded to the accident. Disney responded to the possible danger immediately and put up a fence at the GF the very next day. That immediate response was to prevent another accident that is so rare that only 8 people have died from an alligator attack in the US in the past 10 years. They saw a very remote danger and followed through on a solution. RCCL is giving the family of the little girl the corporate equivalent to "thoughts and prayers".

That may be true, but it's a lot easier to put up one fence than to try to come up with any solution to what the family is proposing to RCCL.

 

[sam_gordon]

I would venture to say that at one of the reasons why Lane's parents did not sue Disney is the way Disney responded to the accident. Disney responded to the possible danger immediately and put up a fence at the GF the very next day. That immediate response was to prevent another accident that is so rare that only 8 people have died from an alligator attack in the US in the past 10 years. They saw a very remote danger and followed through on a solution. RCCL is giving the family of the little girl the corporate equivalent to "thoughts and prayers".

I think the situations aren't as similar as people think they are. For the alligator, the victim wasn't doing anything unreasonable. I think it's safe to say that if one person (family) thought it was safe to wade in the water, than others might too. Therefore Disney took steps to keep those folks from doing the "reasonable" thing.

IMO, what the GF did on the ship was NOT reasonable. Trying to keep someone from doing an UNreasonable action is an exercise in futility.

Let's say the grandfather was carrying the toddler, was walking to the window, slipped on the wet deck, and dropped her out the window. Again, solely my opinion, but that's doing a reasonable activity with tragic consequences. And maybe the answer is "if the deck is wet close to the windows, close the windows or at least put up caution signs".

ETA: I'm curious what you think RCI should do in order to prevent this accident from happening again.

 

[lifesavacation]

Link to the Royal Caribbean Guest Conduct Policy https://www.royalcaribbean.com/content/dam/royal/resources/pdf/guest-conduct-policy.pdf.

Unsafe Behavior
Sitting, standing, laying or climbing on, over or across any exterior or interior railings or other protective barriers, or tampering with ship’s equipment, facilities or systems designed for guest safety is not permitted. Guests may not enter or access any area that is restricted and for the use of crew members. Any other unsafe behavior, including failure to follow security instructions, is not permitted.

 

[robinb]

That may be true, but it's a lot easier to put up one fence than to try to come up with any solution to what the family is proposing to RCCL.

I don't know if Lane's parents asked for a fence. I got the feeling at the time that was Disney's solution at the time. Which is my point, Disney made a change without being prompted and RCCL is twiddling their thumbs. IIRC, the parents of Chloe didn't make any suggestions until their interview which was a full two weeks after death.

 

[DLgal]

I would venture to say that at one of the reasons why Lane's parents did not sue Disney is the way Disney responded to the accident. Disney responded to the possible danger immediately and put up a fence at the GF the very next day. That immediate response was to prevent another accident that is so rare that only 8 people have died from an alligator attack in the US in the past 10 years. They saw a very remote danger and followed through on a solution. RCCL is giving the family of the little girl the corporate equivalent to "thoughts and prayers".

Lane's parents were not also being spoken for by a shady lawyer blaming Disney 100%, nor were the parents themselves giving interviews on national television blaming Disney "100 percent." The recognized the absolute freak accident/1 in a million situation that they encountered and also accepted their part in the situation gracefully, and decided to honor their son in a meaningful way rather than seek a payday. Disney DID give them money. There WAS a settlement, which means there WAS a lawsuit. However, it was probably done as a matter of standard practice when anyone dies accidentally on Disney property. From what I understand, the entirety of the settlement was used to start the foundation in Lane's honor. I don't even know what his parents look like, because they didn't choose to pimp themselves out in the wake of their tragedy.

 

[morgan98]

I don't know if Lane's parents asked for a fence. I got the feeling at the time that was Disney's solution at the time. Which is my point, Disney made a change without being prompted and RCCL is twiddling their thumbs. IIRC, the parents of Chloe didn't make any suggestions until their interview which was a full two weeks after death.

Yes, but putting up a fence where there wasn't one is common sense and low hanging fruit, so to speak. There was already a railing in this case. I really do not think the scenario that occurred is common or one that most people would do. We cannot put up signs or barriers for everything in life. There was already a barrier up, one that was ignored. Should there be a barrier to the barrier? Where does it stop?