This is just so sad,,and makes me ask WHY would someone do this?? I don't call it 'playing'??

[Searc]

Did you see the condition the mother was in? Did you see how devastated she was? It would have been pretty cold hearted for the interviewer to pick that time to point out that the child's grandfather is solely to blame?

Uh, I hate to point out the obvious, but she wasn't forced to be at that interview. She made that choice, no one else.

 

[msjprincess]

An obituary that I read listed two sets of maternal grandparents. So I'm assuming he is the mother's stepfather.

 

[sam_gordon]

I will say what aired was definitely edited. You can even tell when they jumped to different answers. I'm also willing to wager the lawyer was not only in the room, but he probably put out conditions that if certain questions are asked, he'd end the interview.

IMO, it's the job of the interviewer to ask the hard questions. "HOW" they ask the questions goes to their skill.

 

[msjprincess]

Here's the thing. Let's assume the GFs story about putting her on the railing is the truth. Now, let's imagine that the GF HIMSELF stood up on the same railing, leaned forward, and fell through the window. Would ANYONE feel like it was NOT his own fault? Anyone?

I feel like blaming the cruise line is ludicrous because in the dozens and dozens of "man overboard" incidents on cruise ships over the years, where it was clear that the adult put themselves in harm's way by sitting or standing on a railing, no one has ever said "that was the cruise line's fault." No. People unanimously agree that getting up on cruise ship railings is a stupid and potentially deadly thing to do. It's a universally understood risk.

Exactly

If an adult sat on a railing and fell out of the window I doubt anyone would be blaming the cruise line. This is no different.

 

[lifesavacation]

Exactly

If an adult sat on a railing and fell out of the window I doubt anyone would be blaming the cruise line. This is no different.

If the toddler had fallen backward and gotten hurt instead of going forward they wouldn't blame the cruise line. Or maybe they would. IDK.

 

[mom2rtk]

Did you see the condition the mother was in? Did you see how devastated she was? It would have been pretty cold hearted for the interviewer to pick that time to point out that the child's grandfather is solely to blame?

Then she should not have been pimped out for the interview.

 

[fla4fun]

First, what happened was horrible, and my condolences do go out to the family for their loss. The loss of a child is something no family should have to deal with.

HOWEVER . .

I do not feel the cruise line is responsible in any way. I feel this is one of those instances where common sense should be directing your actions, and the grandfather did not use common sense. Sometimes children want to go places and do things they shouldn’t and it’s up to us adults to do the right thing, even if it means you have an unhappy child for a while. Just because the child wanted to be close the windows doesn’t mean she should have been close the windows.

You can’t expect the world to protect you from your bad decisions and not have any consequences for your actions.

 

[fly girl]

It doesn't matter what I think. I can say its not a kids area. I am just pointing out what it looks like in the pictures that the cruise line posts on their own sites and other sites that advertise them. And they haven't once implied that she ran from her gf and fell. Not once. Which is back to me asking "are we just trying to make the parents look worse as we go?"

You can call the area a dining area, you can call it a kid's area, you can call it a dance hall for all I care; its the perception that someone will have. Calling it a dining area honestly isn't better and that is what the original report said. (the same report that you want to quote as fact when it said he was dangling her.) If the police report that the i

I believe the majority on here (not everyone) feels tremendous sympathy towards the parents. IMHO, it is the worst life event you can have. This whole situation is absolutely tragic and horrible. Everyone can agree on that. However, I do not feel that anyone on here is trying to make the parents look worse. When they did the interview and placed sole blame on the cruise line, many of us adamantly disagreed. That is our right to not agree. Just like it is your right to feel the way you do. From what I have read on this thread, most want personal accountability on the grandfather. To my knowledge no one has said horrific things about the parents other than we don't like their stance on blaming RCCL.

And again, I absolutely am adamant they should call it what it is, THE POOL DECK! That is 100% what it is. Then there is no ambiguity about the location.

 

[luvsJack]

Again that is your opinion, stop speaking for everyone.
Nobody said anything about looking to get sympathy for the cruise line, it's about accusations against someone without taking responsibility for your (in this case the GF) actions that resulted in the tragedy you now face.
I can have sympathy for them and what they are going through and at the same time have no respect for what they are doing in the aftermath. Had the "interview" been different, then my feelings about them may be too.

I have watched it happen with my own eyes. I have seen for myself how easy it is turn people against you by going after someone that they empathize with. You can believe it or not, I don't really care. But the fact is, no one likes to see an interviewer or anyone go after someone that they feel sorry for or can see themselves in the same postion.

Anyone here with the belief that "it couldn't happen to me because I do xyz" isn't going to feel the same way as someone that does feel that it can happen to them. Empathy and sympathy are not the same thing.

 

[msjprincess]

I have watched it happen with my own eyes. I have seen for myself how easy it is turn people against you by going after someone that they empathize with. You can believe it or not, I don't really care. But the fact is, no one likes to see an interviewer or anyone go after someone that they feel sorry for or can see themselves in the same postion.

Anyone here with the belief that "it couldn't happen to me because I do xyz" isn't going to feel the same way as someone that does feel that it can happen to them. Empathy and sympathy are not the same thing.

I would never say that. I made some mistakes when my kids were little. The difference is, I took personal responsibility. They are putting all of the blame on the cruise line and none on the grandfather.

 

[luvsJack]

I believe the majority on here (not everyone) feels tremendous sympathy towards the parents. IMHO, it is the worst life event you can have. This whole situation is absolutely tragic and horrible. Everyone can agree on that. However, I do not feel that anyone on here is trying to make the parents look worse. When they did the interview and placed sole blame on the cruise line, many of us adamantly disagreed. That is our right to not agree. Just like it is your right to feel the way you do. From what I have read on this thread, most want personal accountability on the grandfather. To my knowledge no one has said horrific things about the parents other than we don't like their stance on blaming RCCL.

And again, I absolutely am adamant they should call it what it is, THE POOL DECK! That is 100% what it is. Then there is no ambiguity about the location.

Then you aren't reading. Disagreeing with them about being on the Today show and what they said has nothing to do with it. Everyone has a right to their opinion. I am not in agreement with them that the cruise line is totally to blame. But would be willing to hold off judgement of any negligence until the full investigation is done and would be willing to listen to the attorney. I won't do any of that so choose not to judge them. Some here seem to feel the man should be charged.

But go back and read and keep reading and you will see that there are a few that each time they post something different about what was said or what was done, it sounds just a bit worse. I didn't say anyone said anything horrific about them. But more than not liking their stance has been said.

The simple truth is no matter what anyone here says or how many times they have been on that ship, they were NOT there when this happened. They have no idea what the grandfather was or was not doing, what exactly is meant by putting her on the rail or how he put her on the rail. Everyone is taking a small amount of information and running wild with it when in all reality we don't know. The "reports" have gone from dangling to rocking to holding to sitting her on the rail. The grandfather said he let her go. And some here seem to think that means he let her go and walked away. He could have let go for a split second. Or maybe he loosened his grip on her to pick up something else and that is what he meant by let go. And then somewhere else it said he slipped. Did they get that from him? Or perhaps that was assumed from the "let go" statement. OR maybe he didn't say "let go", he said "I slipped and let go for just a second". Until there are direct quotes from the grandfather in a calm interview, we aren't going to know or this goes to court or something that give exact facts, we are not going to know exactly what happened in the minutes before this tragedy.

 

[luvsJack]

I would never say that. I made some mistakes when my kids were little. The difference is, I took personal responsibility. They are putting all of the blame on the cruise line and none on the grandfather.

And that isn't what I was talking about either. I was talking about the "hard hitting" question some would have liked to have seen in the interview.

 

[sam_gordon]

The simple truth is no matter what anyone here says or how many times they have been on that ship, they were NOT there when this happened. They have no idea what the grandfather was or was not doing, what exactly is meant by putting her on the rail or how he put her on the rail. Everyone is taking a small amount of information and running wild with it when in all reality we don't know. The "reports" have gone from dangling to rocking to holding to sitting her on the rail. The grandfather said he let her go. And some here seem to think that means he let her go and walked away. He could have let go for a split second. Or maybe he loosened his grip on her to pick up something else and that is what he meant by let go. And then somewhere else it said he slipped. Did they get that from him? Or perhaps that was assumed from the "let go" statement. OR maybe he didn't say "let go", he said "I slipped and let go for just a second". Until there are direct quotes from the grandfather in a calm interview, we aren't going to know or this goes to court or something that give exact facts, we are not going to know exactly what happened in the minutes before this tragedy.

You're right... no one here was there when the accident happened. BUT, those of us who have been on that ship (and similar) AND pictures AND video all have the same facts...
1) The window was at least 3-4' off the ground (~waist height on an adult).
2) The window has a railing in front of it (~6-12" from the window frame).

Even though we weren't there, we know the child fell out of the window.

We also know (or can at least assume) the child did not climb up to the open window by herself.

So, the question is, regardless of whether you think "let go" means walked away, a split second, or loosened his grip, in no way is the cruise line responsible for this. You have even stated you believe that.

So, are you ok with the family saying "It's 100% RCI's fault."? THAT'S the only problem I've had with the family, and probably 99.9% of the people who are critical of the family feel the same. Not one person is glad this happened or wished it happened. I don't think most people even want charges filed. Continuing to make the claim that the cruise line is at fault APPEARS to make this a money grab. THAT, I think, is disgusting.

Are the parents/family distraught? Of course. Are they in mourning? Yes. Do they have any idea how they are going to keep going? Probably not right now. But coming out with claims that RCI is to blame is such a bad image, I can't even describe. They need some 3rd party (family friend, minister, mentor, whatever) to help guide them. NOT an ambulance chasing lawyer.

 

[GrnMtnMan]

I'd have respect for them and the interviewer if they asked and answered those questions. As of now, I've got none.

This incident has made me appreciate how the Graves family (the child killed by an alligator) handled their similar situation. And how they didn't lash out. They seemingly accepted their culpability in that situation (whatever degree that is), and turned a tragedy into something more lasting than tabloid fodder.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-near-disney-resort-honored-statue/553497001/
https://www.lanethomas.org/

 

[CdnCarrie]

People do odd things when in shock and grief.
I feel so bad for them especially the grandfather.

 

[fly girl]

[

Then you aren't reading. Disagreeing with them about being on the Today show and what they said has nothing to do with it. Everyone has a right to their opinion. I am not in agreement with them that the cruise line is totally to blame. But would be willing to hold off judgement of any negligence until the full investigation is done and would be willing to listen to the attorney. I won't do any of that so choose not to judge them. Some here seem to feel the man should be charged.

But go back and read and keep reading and you will see that there are a few that each time they post something different about what was said or what was done, it sounds just a bit worse. I didn't say anyone said anything horrific about them. But more than not liking their stance has been said.

The simple truth is no matter what anyone here says or how many times they have been on that ship, they were NOT there when this happened. They have no idea what the grandfather was or was not doing, what exactly is meant by putting her on the rail or how he put her on the rail. Everyone is taking a small amount of information and running wild with it when in all reality we don't know. The "reports" have gone from dangling to rocking to holding to sitting her on the rail. The grandfather said he let her go. And some here seem to think that means he let her go and walked away. He could have let go for a split second. Or maybe he loosened his grip on her to pick up something else and that is what he meant by let go. And then somewhere else it said he slipped. Did they get that from him? Or perhaps that was assumed from the "let go" statement. OR maybe he didn't say "let go", he said "I slipped and let go for just a second". Until there are direct quotes from the grandfather in a calm interview, we aren't going to know or this goes to court or something that give exact facts, we are not going to know exactly what happened in the minutes before this tragedy.

Ha ha ha, that's rich. Thank you for letting me know I am incapable of comprehending what I have read.

I haven't read anyone trying to make the parents worse. That is your opinion. I have my opinion, you have yours. This is a thread trying to comprehend how this tragic event happened. You are right, we don't really know. But we are using our intelligence to try to piece it together. When we read and watch things that are in contradiction to what we know (ie. window tint, railing, deck, location etc.) we are talking about it. And I could have missed it, but as far as I remember no one said the Grandfather should go to jail. They just said PR Police are looking into whether he should be charged - we don't know what counts, but my best guess would be negligence. Some feel those charges wouldn't be out of the scope of reality, but no one said lock him up. In fact, I do remember many posters (as I was one of them) saying living with what happened was punishment enough for him.

We do know that this little girl was being watched by the Grandfather. We do know he said he put her on the railing. Was it to bang on the glass? Was it to look out at the dock? Was it a game? We do not know. But we do know Grandpa hoisted her up -- and we can discuss that and feel he has culpability in this situation.

 

[luvsJack]

[


Ha ha ha, that's rich. Thank you for letting me know I am incapable of comprehending what I have read.

I haven't read anyone trying to make the parents worse. That is your opinion. I have my opinion, you have yours. This is a thread trying to comprehend how this tragic event happened. You are right, we don't really know. But we are using our intelligence to try to piece it together. When we read and watch things that are in contradiction to what we know (ie. window tint, railing, deck, location etc.) we are talking about it. And I could have missed it, but as far as I remember no one said the Grandfather should go to jail. They just said PR Police are looking into whether he should be charged - we don't know what counts, but my best guess would be negligence. Some feel those charges wouldn't be out of the scope of reality, but no one said lock him up. In fact, I do remember many posters (as I was one of them) saying living with what happened was punishment enough for him.

We do know that this little girl was being watched by the Grandfather. We do know he said he put her on the railing. Was it to bang on the glass? Was it to look out at the dock? Was it a game? We do not know. But we do know Grandpa hoisted her up -- and we can discuss that and feel he has culpability in this situation.

That isn't even close to what I said. If I thought you were not able to comprehend I would have said "then you aren't understanding what you read". I said "you aren't reading". Two very different statements.

We know that? Ok, then why does at least one poster keep referring back to the dangling/rocking/swinging?

And I never said YOU were doing anything to make it seem worse. That was aimed at one particular poster.

 

[mjkacmom]

I don’t think RCCL is at fault, but right now, this family wants to blame the company, needs to blame the company, has to focus on “protecting other children.” The lawyer told them that they are not to blame, that if RCCL makes safety changes, it will save others. I’m guessing that when the shock and horror wear off, they might begin to see it differently. I can’t say what I would do or say in their situation, and I don’t think anyone can (although I’m sure some will insist they wouldn’t do the same).

 

[mnrose]

I feel absolute terrible for that family, and if I'm the grandfather, I'm not even sure how I could go on living. This situation is clear to me. It's HIS fault. A very bitter pill to swallow, I'm sure, if I'm either the mom or dad. I don't for one second believe the grandfather in any way, shape or form MEANT to harm his grandchild, or even thought that was possible. But, it's HIS actions which caused the child to be in a position to fall out that window. That child did not get to that open window on her own...and if that's what had happened, then sure, blame the cruise line for creating an unreasonably dangerous situation. But, that is so clearly NOT what happened...no one contends that it did.

It is absolutely human nature to seek to place blame, more so when the results were particularly awful as it was here. While I understand it, it's still not right. I hope the parents find a way to move on that doesn't involve an ill-advised lawsuit. They are in the early stages of grief, so I'll cut them some slack. But the LAST thing I'd be doing in the midst of grieving the tragic loss of my child is giving TV interviews. It's just not going to end well.

 

[Searc]

[


Ha ha ha, that's rich. Thank you for letting me know I am incapable of comprehending what I have read.

I haven't read anyone trying to make the parents worse. That is your opinion. I have my opinion, you have yours. This is a thread trying to comprehend how this tragic event happened. You are right, we don't really know. But we are using our intelligence to try to piece it together. When we read and watch things that are in contradiction to what we know (ie. window tint, railing, deck, location etc.) we are talking about it. And I could have missed it, but as far as I remember no one said the Grandfather should go to jail. They just said PR Police are looking into whether he should be charged - we don't know what counts, but my best guess would be negligence. Some feel those charges wouldn't be out of the scope of reality, but no one said lock him up. In fact, I do remember many posters (as I was one of them) saying living with what happened was punishment enough for him.

We do know that this little girl was being watched by the Grandfather. We do know he said he put her on the railing. Was it to bang on the glass? Was it to look out at the dock? Was it a game? We do not know. But we do know Grandpa hoisted her up -- and we can discuss that and feel he has culpability in this situation.

A lot of people lack critical thinking skills.