This is just so sad,,and makes me ask WHY would someone do this?? I don't call it 'playing'??

[cabanafrau]

What time of day did this happen?

If the sun was up, did the glare impair grandpa's field of vision in relation to the window being open or closed?

Was grandpa at all fatigued?

How was his blood sugar? (Doesn't have to be diabetic, could have simply been a "You need a Snickers" moment.)

Was anything in particular distracting him at just a critical moment?


Sad truth is small, simple things happen to cause otherwise functional and healthy humans to misstep, make mistakes, have tiny lapses of focus. Hopefully most of the time the resulting damage amounts to stubbing a toe or leaving a light on. Being around small kids ups the odds a small lapse can result in tragedy. Even once this whole situation is reviewed, investigated and gone over with a fine tooth comb all of the tiny little factors that led up to a horrific loss may never be known.

 

[Floridaman999]

 

[fly girl]

I was just on Freedom Of The Seas last year. My daughter played in the H2O zone (I'm looking at our pictures in a minute to see if I can show you the windows, but it is doubtful.)

Anyway ...

With certainty, along the windows isn't a water play area, it is full of lounge chairs, table and chairs, and a few ping pong tables at the front. If I remember correctly, the windows were tinted blue (to block out blinding sun), so unless the sky was the exact same color I find it very hard to not realize the window was open.

I am still heartbroken for this family, they have suffered one of the worst (imho the worst) life event you can have, the loss of a child.

However, I am surprised they are going straight for a lawsuit. Maybe they just want to find someone to blame? It would be really hard to point fingers at your own father for killing your daughter. I can't even fathom their thought process, so I really don't want to judge. But yes, I do find it odd. I hope in time they will realize it was a tragic accident, and not RCL's fault. Time will tell.

 

[motherof5]

Toddler Dies After Grandfather Dangles Her From Cruise ShipNewser - By Evann Gastaldo1 hour ago


A family cruise turned tragic Sunday afternoon when an 18-month-old girl died after her grandfather dangled her outside an 11th-story window on the ship and then lost his grip.
Authorities tell the AP the Royal Caribbean Freedom of the Seas was docked in San Juan, Puerto Rico, at the time. Fox News, citing Puerto Rico's Primera Hora newspaper, reports that the Indiana toddler apparently fell 150 feet and landed on concrete.
She was pronounced dead at a local hospital.

"It's a very grave scene, very regrettable and tragic," a public security official in Puerto Rico tells Primera Hora, per CBS News.
"One of the grandfathers, whom it would appear was playing with the little girl, lifted her out of the open window and lost his grip." He says she hit an awning first before landing on the dock.
She was reportedly traveling with her parents and younger brother, as well as both her maternal and paternal grandparents. An investigation is ongoing, and officials are interviewing witnesses, Sky News reports.

So sad and will most likely tear this family apart. This poor grandfather will live with this guilt.

 

[Imzadi]

I honestly don’t know how the grandfather or the parents can go on to live after this tragedy.

I can't imagine what the family is going through. They lost their baby and the one responsible is your own father (or FIL), that can't be an easy reality to grasp at this time. I understand they would try to seek answers and blame elsewhere instead of with him, but I think it is pretty far fetched to think there was a glass window in front of you when there wasn't and blame the cruise ship for that.

It will be difficult, and undoubtedly their lives and relationships have been altered forever. Time won’t erase the grief, anger and guilt they all will be feeling. Life does go on, as any grieving parent will tell you, but not the life one ever imagined.

Yes, they may be in for another heartache down the road. I've read that a good deal of parents who lose a child end up in divorce. The tragedy & grief either bring the parents together or rip them apart. And those are marriages where a parent of the spouses wasn't involved in the death.

I think the mother, who was a deputy prosecutor, right now needs someone to blame, and it's falling on the cruise line. But, at some point, she will probably come around to the fact that, ultimately, it was the grandfather was holding her child up to a high window.

My Coworker just commented on a very good point. People are making a big deal of this because it happened on a cruise ship. But in essence a cruise ship is just like a high-rise building and unfortunately having children fall from windows or balconies from buildings is not unheard of

Exactly. Many homes and buildings have chest high windows. At what point do designers/archetects have to future think every single, random possible occurrence and design for even the unlikeliest possibility? Even if that floor was designated a kids play area, they designed the windows to be chest high. The child would have to have assistance of some kind to get up that high. Either a chair, a box, or a human being. In the latter case, it is expected that the supervising adult human being have some reasonable abilities to be be responsible for the child. To ascertain lifting a child up to a pane of glass to bang on it would not be a wise thing to do, under any circumstances, other than at a hockey rink, which has specialized glass/plexiglass installed.

 

[fly girl]

I do have some images! I cropped out my daughter (privacy) and focus solely on the windows. It is hard to see the height since I was taking on the opposite side of the deck, but would be balcony height for windows that could open.


Do you see the open window? I do!


You can see several open here.


This is right behind the H2O zone at the pool.

 

[Imzadi]

So in this situation, the glass is providing a false sense of security. In the night photo of the crime scene, it's hard to distinguish between the open panel and the closed panel. Large operable windows on an 11th-story pool deck pose a safety risk. Royal Caribbean should assess the situation - perhaps add locks to the operable windows. If they're open during the day, the crew could shut them at dusk.

It wasn't night time or dusk when the accident happened. It happened at about 4:30. Sunset is around 8pm on the east coast. (But, I get the hazards you are talking about.)

 

[lifesavacation]

I do have some images! I cropped out my daughter (privacy) and focus solely on the windows. It is hard to see the height since I was taking on the opposite side of the deck, but would be balcony height for windows that could open.

View attachment 415876
Do you see the open window? I do!

View attachment 415877
You can see several open here.

View attachment 415878
This is right behind the H2O zone at the pool.

You can definitely see some open windows. I'm not sure to what extent that matters, but they've sailed with open windows before.

 

[mousefan73]

What time of day did this happen?

If the sun was up, did the glare impair grandpa's field of vision in relation to the window being open or closed?

Was grandpa at all fatigued?

How was his blood sugar? (Doesn't have to be diabetic, could have simply been a "You need a Snickers" moment.)

Was anything in particular distracting him at just a critical moment?


Sad truth is small, simple things happen to cause otherwise functional and healthy humans to misstep, make mistakes, have tiny lapses of focus. Hopefully most of the time the resulting damage amounts to stubbing a toe or leaving a light on. Being around small kids ups the odds a small lapse can result in tragedy. Even once this whole situation is reviewed, investigated and gone over with a fine tooth comb all of the tiny little factors that led up to a horrific loss may never be known.

Agree the mind can do wierd things even to normal people. One time I was so sleep deprived when I went to pick up a dirty sock off the bathroom floor and put in the laundry hamper in my mind I did that. When in reality I flushed the sock down the toilet. True story. Strangest thing As in my mind I saw myself putting it into laundry basket.

 

[sam_gordon]

So here's my question... these open windows are basically the same height as the railing on a balcony cabin. If you think these windows should be blocked to prevent another similar accident, should something be done to all balconies on all cruise ships? If not, why not?

I've been on Freedom. I have a video link in my signature. If someone honestly saw the open window and thought there was glass there (despite every other window around it looking different), they shouldn't be put in charge of a toddler.

 

[fly girl]

So here's my question... these open windows are basically the same height as the railing on a balcony cabin. If you think these windows should be blocked to prevent another similar accident, should something be done to all balconies on all cruise ships? If not, why not?

I've been on Freedom. I have a video link in my signature. If someone honestly saw the open window and thought there was glass there (despite every other window around it looking different), they shouldn't be put in charge of a toddler.

Personally, I see this as a freak accident. How many years has RCCL and other cruise lines had these type of windows without issue? I wouldn't be too quick to block or add bars. But if RCCL loses if it goes to court, then my guess those windows will change.

 

[mom2rtk]

Personally, I see this as a freak accident. How many years has RCCL and other cruise lines had these type of windows without issue? I wouldn't be too quick to block or add bars. But if RCCL loses if it goes to court, then my guess those windows will change.

I'd lay money those windows change regardless.

 

[sam_gordon]

Personally, I see this as a freak accident. How many years has RCCL and other cruise lines had these type of windows without issue? I wouldn't be too quick to block or add bars. But if RCCL loses if it goes to court, then my guess those windows will change.

I totally agree it was a freak accident. But it sounds like some on this thread feel RCI should do something to prevent this from happening again. But it could have happened on a cabin balcony with the same set of circumstances.

 

[Hikergirl]

I don't feel the cruise line is at fault and I don't think they need to lock the windows and never open them but maybe just some signage to make passengers aware that they may be open. That way in the future if anyone does think it is safe to bring a small child near them they may think twice.

 

[sam_gordon]

Wow ! Making a child’s death all about you, how insensitive.
Boo hoo you can’t open a window in a public place. Poor you. Tough life,

So do you think balconies should be blocked in? If not, what's the difference?

 

[CdnCarrie]

So do you think balconies should be blocked in? If not, what's the difference?

I wasn’t the one complaining about closed windows.

 

[fly girl]

You can definitely see some open windows. I'm not sure to what extent that matters, but they've sailed with open windows before.

I was just showing the area so people could try and see what it looks like. Get perspective of kid area in relation to windows. And showing how the windows are tinted.

 

[FigmentSpark]

Maybe something as simple as some decorative spikes just on the edge of the window so no one sits their kid on the edge again? It wouldn't be a bad idea on a balcony either, although people do like to lean on balconies.

 

[fly girl]

Maybe something as simple as some decorative spikes just on the edge of the window so no one sits their kid on the edge again? It wouldn't be a bad idea on a balcony either, although people do like to lean on balconies.

Yeah, I wouldn’t like not being able to rest my arms on the balcony. I can’t think of a time when I didn’t touch the rail.

 

[lifesavacation]

So do you think balconies should be blocked in? If not, what's the difference?

I think they'll argue that there was an expectation of having a closed window above the railing. Whereas, a balcony has no upper windows so there would be no expectation.