This is just so sad,,and makes me ask WHY would someone do this?? I don't call it 'playing'??

[luvsJack]

I wonder if he never really looked at the window. Have you ever just assumed something was some way and in your mind’s eye that’s how you saw it? All the other windows were closed, he just assumed that one wa too. Stood her there while talking to family and just wasn’t paying attention.

 

[Imzadi]

I don't think it's fair to say "we have the actual story now". What we have is the families version that they are putting out thru their lawyer.

You're right. Maybe I should say we have AN actual story as told from a representative for the family. I meant versus where this thread began and there were so many stories and no one was sure if there may have been language misinterpreted, ("dangling",) by the the police in Puerto Rico, or by the press, and different witness accounts. Notice, I did say it was the story the attorney is telling.

 

[elle21]

Criminal charges are a possibility. This is why I did not judge legal representation.
Consider the difference in legal responsibility some would see if the caregiver was a nanny instead of a grandfather.

Personally, I hope there are no charges. This is a wound that will never heal for this family. They had their lives before the terrible day, and the rest of their lives are the painful after.

This is a very interesting point. Let’s suppose something happened at a daycare where an employee held a child up on a balcony railing and let go by accident. The mom wouldn’t be suing the building owner or property manager, she would be pressing charges against the daycare employee.

 

[sam_gordon]

I wonder if he never really looked at the window. Have you ever just assumed something was some way and in your mind’s eye that’s how you saw it? All the other windows were closed, he just assumed that one wa too. Stood her there while talking to family and just wasn’t paying attention.

In which case, I feel the burden is more on him than RCI. It's obvious where there is glass and where there isnt.

 

[MamaLema]

Many years ago we arrived at the Beach Club Villas. Both sets of in laws were meeting us there. On the way my wife's parents called to cancel. They had made it half way when they found out there was a death in the family and they were headed to be with that part of the family instead. We would call the trip short a day early to be at the funeral. My parents arrived at virtually the same time we did to the resort but the scooter we had rented to be delivered to the resort was no where to be found.

While my wife talked to my parents about the death, I tried to get a hold of the scooter company to find out what was going on, the kids ran around the room, supervised but not really.

A few moments later my wife started screaming, a scream you know is something serious. Our four year old daughter had pushed a chair up to the balcony and was balanced on her knees on the fourth floor railing. The railing in our villa was half solid and she could not see so she figured out a way to be able to see.

It happened within five minutes of arriving to the room.

Luckily she was not physically hurt, though she was scared so bad by my wife's scream that she did cry for some time.

Tragedy is always just a moment away.

While I haven’t been through this exact experience, there were 2 close calls when my kids were younger that still give me some sleepless nights years later. Glad everything turned out OK.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I saw some news stories saying that the grandfather and Chloe were playing in the kiddie pool area together when Chloe asked to go over to the windows to bang on the glass like she did at her brother's hockey games, so GF took her over there. According to the family attorney's statement, he took her over to the windows, stood her up on the railing thinking there was a window there, but there wasn't, and Chloe fell.

Definitely a lot of versions of the story out there.

Here are the family attorney's statements at the press conference he gave in Miami today:

On Tuesday, a lawyer hired by the family revealed that Anello had put Chloe up on a wooden railing to let her bang on the glass, as she loved to do at her older brothers' ice hockey games in Indiana, not realizing that the window was in fact open.

When she leaned forward to pound her hands on it, she went straight through the open space and plummeted to the ground below, letting out a 'blood curdling' scream as she fell, according to witnesses.

The lawyer said that Anello simply did not see that the window was open when he propped Chloe up against it but he 'absolutely had not' been drinking.

'We've all had that experience where someone walks into a glass door thinking it's not there. This is the inverse of that,' Michael Winkleman, the family's lawyer, said on Tuesday.

He said the windows should not have been able to open at all given that they are in a children's area and on the 11th floor of the ship.

Describing what happened at a press conference in Miami, he said: 'The grandfather is with Chloe, they're playing and there's this wall of all windows, it's all glass windows.

'Chloe used to love to bang on the glass at her brother's ice hockey games, so her grandfather takes her over to the windows, he thinks it's all glass.

'There's a wood railing along there, he puts her on that thinking she's going to bang on the glass and it's going to be great, and the next thing he knows, she's gone,' he said.

He did not say why Anello thought it was open but said: 'He literally thought it was all glass. Clearly, he was wrong.'

Asked if the grandfather had been drinking, he added: 'There was absolutely no alcohol involved, Sam is not a drinker.'

Winkleman called it a 'preventable tragedy' and said the window should never have been open so high up.

'What was preventable here was really, why would you ever put windows that passengers could open.

'It was reasonable for him to think this was all glass.

'From his perspective it was all glass,' he added.

A spokesman for the law firm has since told DailyMail.com that while there was a glass pane there, it had been left open.

The family is looking into holding the cruise ship company accountable.

'Why would you have that kind of danger without any sign without any warning without any notice?' Winkleman added.

'I do think there is going to be blame and significant blame on the cruise line.

'I will do everything I can to hold them accountable for what appears to me to be negligence,' he added.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...na-tot-fell-cruise-ship-not-ruled-murder.html

 

[tarheelmjfan]

It's hard for me to imagine that anyone believes they were close enough for an 18 month old to bang on the window & the GF didn't realize it was open. One extension of the arm & it would be obvious there wasn't a glass there. That explanation lacks logic.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

So is this guy senile or evil or just dumb? Who does this?

 

[Hikergirl]

That makes even less sense to me. The windows are floor to ceiling. She could have stood and done that. No need to pick her up.

Maybe she wanted to be picked up, maybe he just wanted to hold her. People do things all the time that they don't need too

What doesn't make sense is that he put her on the railing in front of an open window without realizing it was open. He was standing right there in front of it how did he not realize it was open?
I do believe it was an accident, but I just don't understand how it could have happened.

 

[msjprincess]

Maybe she wanted to be picked up, maybe he just wanted to hold her. People do things all the time that they don't need too

What doesn't make sense is that he put her on the railing in front of an open window without realizing it was open. He was standing right there in front of it how did he not realize it was open?
I do believe it was an accident, but I just don't understand how it could have happened.

I was specifically responding to the part that said he picked her up in order to bang on the glass.

 

[Hikergirl]

I was specifically responding to the part that said he picked her up in order to bang on the glass.

I know what you were referring too.

 

[Imzadi]

What doesn't make sense is that he put her on the railing in front of an open window without realizing it was open. He was standing right there in front of it how did he not realize it was open?
I do believe it was an accident, but I just don't understand how it could have happened.

I wonder if she had been banging on the window at floor level. So he lifted her up, knowingly, to the open window to look out - no banging. (We've had way too many people wonder why would any adult allow a child to bang on a glass window that isn't at a hockey rink.) He thought she'd understand there was no window there and there'd be no banging. Only she didn't. That misunderstanding of what they were going to do at the window was catastrophic. Perhaps she lunged forward to bang on the non-existent window. He had been expecting her to stand still & straight up on the railing. So he didn't have as tight of a grip to hang onto her as necessary, (even had there been a window,) as she lunged forward.

This is just so tragic no matter how it happened. We'll probably never really fully know what happened unless RCCI has a video that they release.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

I wonder if she had been banging on the window at floor level. So he lifted her up, knowingly, to the open window to look out - no banging. (We've had way too many people wonder why would any adult allow a child to bang on a glass window that isn't at a hockey rink.) He thought she'd understand there was no window there and there'd be no banging. Only she didn't. That misunderstanding of what they were going to do at the window was catastrophic. Perhaps she lunged forward to bang on the non-existent window. He had been expecting her to stand still & straight up on the railing. So he didn't have as tight of a grip to hang onto her as necessary, (even had there been a window,) as she lunged forward.

This is just so tragic no matter how it happened. We'll probably never really fully know what happened unless RCCI has a video that they release.

I seriously doubt the cruise line will release the video, unless it's part of a court proceeding. I've never seen any cruise line willingly release a video of a jumper. This situation would probably be no different from their standpoint.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Looking at the photo in the above post, and picturing the man in the photo holding a toddler at torso/chest/shoulder height, I can very easily see how a squirming toddler and an unsuspecting unsteady grandfather (possibly elderly) could end in disaster, as it did in this awful story. Its easy to see how the accident may have played out whether the grandfather knew the window was open or not.

Not elderly. Sixty, plus/minus maybe five years. No proof, just going by the photographs.

I think they'll argue that there was an expectation of having a closed window above the railing. Whereas, a balcony has no upper windows so there would be no expectation.

Whereas the cruise line should have a reasonable expectation of not having children placed on railings, sills, whatever that are at an idiot's chest height.

Likely an eyesight thing. If his eyes aren't great and he didn't have the right glasses, it's possible he didn't notice the difference even if the windows are tinted.

I dunno. Glasses is one of those things that you get by with maybe a slightly wrong prescription in daily life, but you may try to update for a vacation. At any rate, good or bad prescription, if they don't enable the wearer to tell the difference between an open window and a closed one, that's a problem.

A spokesman for the law firm has since told DailyMail.com that while there was a glass pane there, it had been left open.

The family is looking into holding the cruise ship company accountable.

'Why would you have that kind of danger without any sign without any warning without any notice?' Winkleman added.

AMO
Why should you need to warn about Windows an adult would have to climb to reach?

 

[mummabear]

still think you can clearly see which windows are open, but maybe that day you couldn’t? Maybe his sight was bad? Who knows.

What I don't is sure its conceivable from a.distance to look like there was a wi dow, possibly, but ince you are standing right at it, surely you can feel the air/breeze....

 

[Allison]

The mom wouldn’t be suing the building owner or property manager, she would be pressing charges against the daycare employee.

She doesn't get to decide about pressing charges. She can sue.

I think if there was a lawsuit it would involve all of the above parties in your scenario.

 

[mamamary]

I wonder if the window was opened by a cruise ship employee or a passenger. I've never been on a cruise but is opening windows in a common area something a passenger would do? I'm just curious.

 

[gwynne]

She doesn't get to decide about pressing charges. She can sue.

I think if there was a lawsuit it would involve all of the above parties in your scenario.

Well, in the outlined (fictional) scenario it's likely the local prosecutor would be involved.
In addition there might be a civil suit component.

 

[luvsJack]

I wonder if she had been banging on the window at floor level. So he lifted her up, knowingly, to the open window to look out - no banging. (We've had way too many people wonder why would any adult allow a child to bang on a glass window that isn't at a hockey rink.) He thought she'd understand there was no window there and there'd be no banging. Only she didn't. That misunderstanding of what they were going to do at the window was catastrophic. Perhaps she lunged forward to bang on the non-existent window. He had been expecting her to stand still & straight up on the railing. So he didn't have as tight of a grip to hang onto her as necessary, (even had there been a window,) as she lunged forward.

This is just so tragic no matter how it happened. We'll probably never really fully know what happened unless RCCI has a video that they release.

This scenario seems very logical.




The man is just human and he thought things would happen one way and tragically they didn’t. No malice, just a human who made a tragic mistake that he has to live with and look into his own child’s eyes and know he caused the death of their child. I can’t imagine, I just can’t imagine.

I remember when Dd was that small and dh would lift her up to see things. Like maybe at the zoo, to see an animal. I would almost have a panic attack and he would say “I got her”. Now he never really put her in danger and he always made sure he held her in a way that squirming could never have made him drop her but how many parents do hold their child up to these same things all the time and don’t have as good a grip as they should have? Or step closer than dh did and if they had dropped the child would have dropped them into danger? Honestly there are so many things that can happen to our children in a split second. It’s easy to judge after the fact and wonder why someone would do these things but the fact is, it happens and it’s tragic.

 

[Allison]

Well, in the outlined (fictional) scenario it's likely the local prosecutor would be involved.
In addition there might be a civil suit component.

Correct. The prosecutor would decide about charges, not the parent. That was my point.

The civil suit component is also what I mentioned.