This is just so sad,,and makes me ask WHY would someone do this?? I don't call it 'playing'??

[sam_gordon]

I figured that but you never know.
I still have sympathy, the family is going through so much right now they are most likely not thinking logically about anything. I will cut them some slack, but if this does turn in to some lawsuit in the future I wouldn't be siding with them.

I guess one thing to find out is if this lawyer represents the toddler's parents/grandparents or some other members of the family.

Less than 48 hours after this tragic accident and they've already retained US lawyers? If it was a defense lawyer to protect them I would understand.

 

[cabanafrau]

I figured that but you never know.
I still have sympathy, the family is going through so much right now they are most likely not thinking logically about anything. I will cut them some slack, but if this does turn in to some lawsuit in the future I wouldn't be siding with them.

I cannot help but feel for this family. It's hard to even attempt to imagine their suffering. I don't believe the potential of what happened occurred even momentarily to her grandfather and I believe if it had he wouldn't have allowed his little granddaughter anywhere near the area. All I can do is pray for them.

 

[HopperFan]

Here's another picture to show the height.

View attachment 415600

As you can see this window has been slid to the left. The windows all along the sides of these particular decks slide open and it keeps the deck well ventilated. On sea days when the decks are full it is not unusual to have all the windows slid open. It is very obvious when the windows are open because the "glass" is thick and often scratched and discolored.

As you can also see the window ledge is up to about that man's chest. There is no way an 18 mo old could get up there unless picked up and put in proximity. The wall leans out so it's not like you walk up to a flat wall of glass.

I have been on Freedom and I do not believe the actual windows in the 11th deck Dining Room (Windjammer) can be opened. Also the dining room is wrapped around the back of the ship. The little girl landed on concrete which is likely the dock. This means she fell from a side window. There are a couple from the dining room and some from the upscale dining but I don't think they open either.

I did find one photo that said it was part of the dining space and showed windows that slid open just like this one, perhaps they expanded the space since I was on the ship. Again, only way for her to be there is for her to be picked up and placed there ... with a lean forward to the opening.




Regardless of how this plays out ... children should never be lifted up in proximity where they are at risk of a fall. It is negligent. If the lawyers are trying to lay blame on RCI for a window made to be open .... I think they are wasting their time. They need to focus on what charges may be brought to the grandfather. Accident, yes but it didn't have to happen so potentially negligence.

 

[mjkacmom]

I guess one thing to find out is if this lawyer represents the toddler's parents/grandparents or some other members of the family.

Less than 48 hours after this tragic accident and they've already retained US lawyers? If it was a defense lawyer to protect them I would understand.

These lawyers prey on people in these tragic situations. I’m assuming they are all drugged up and catatonic at this point. They aren’t even back home yet.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I am always wary of things like glass and railings when it comes to children pressing against them.

(Hopper Fan and I were posting at the same time...)

I wish we could see a picture of what the windows look like from the inside, and how it looks with one being open compared to them all being closed, etc.

Thanks for providing that!

It did say in the article I posted just above that the window was in the children's play area, with no warning signs posted, so that may make it a little different than being in the dining room.

Perhaps the grandfather's eyesight wasn't good and/or he hadn't been on a cruise before?

 

[luvsJack]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fa...bout-cause-of-death/ar-AAE4ZLK?ocid=ientp_edu

This link says the window was in a children's area. And that he lifted her to it, thinking it was closed glass (and clear glass is easy to mistake for open window), the child went to bang on it and fell out the window.

I don't think "having a lawyer" is a sign of guilt. Lawyers were probably contacting them as soon as the news hit.

IF the grandparent and child were in a children's area and IF the window was open, I certainly understand it being seen as negligence on the part of the cruise line.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

These lawyers prey on people in these tragic situations. I’m assuming they are all drugged up and catatonic at this point. They aren’t even back home yet.

I wonder if it's part of their wanting the world to know that they "didn't do anything wrong", especially given that the initial reports of the grandfather dangling the child out the window on purpose were so damaging? Forever now, they're probably going to be hearing that narrative from people - maybe they want to try to make sure it goes away.

 

[nkereina]

Here's another picture to show the height.

View attachment 415600

I heard this story on the news earlier, with no visuals of the ship, and the newscaster explained it as "the grandfather was holding the child up to a balcony that was normally encased in glass", and I couldn't understand what they meant. Now that I see the photo someone posted, it looks like all of those other windows are shut, but it looks like the glass is missing or the window open on only one of those squares. So I'm thinking the grandfather was holding her up to see outside, not realizing that particular spot was open with no glass, and she fell through. Maybe with his age poor eye sight also played into that.

Looking at the photo in the above post, and picturing the man in the photo holding a toddler at torso/chest/shoulder height, I can very easily see how a squirming toddler and an unsuspecting unsteady grandfather (possibly elderly) could end in disaster, as it did in this awful story. Its easy to see how the accident may have played out whether the grandfather knew the window was open or not.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Looking at the photo in the above post, and picturing the man in the photo holding a toddler at torso/chest/shoulder height, I can very easily see how a squirming toddler and an unsuspecting unsteady grandfather (possibly elderly) could end in disaster, as it did in this awful story. Its easy to see how the accident may have played out whether the grandfather knew the window was open or not.

You just wonder how many other squirmy children have been in that same area, with the same windows open, without a problem before? Does anyone know how long the ship has been in operation?

Our kids were 6 yrs old, and climbers, when we took our first Disney cruise, and I remember being worried about it. I don't recall there being windows that open (more "portholes" with thick stationary glass), but there were plenty of opportunities to climb over railings, especially on the private verandahs. I know doors are heavy and hard to open, but it's certainly possible for kids to get out there, put a chair up to the railing to see, and climb over.

 

[mousefan73]

Confirmed Details of what happened are really zero so I will not make any judgments right now.

I just know I have held and infant/ toddler in my arms where they suddenly lashed out, got squirmy where they almost literally flew out of my arms. You know that let me bend over head first in your arms move where they are heavy anf almost dive headfirst to the ground move.

 

[luvsJack]

Confirmed Details of what happened are really zero so I will not make any judgments right now.

I just know I have held and infant/ toddler in my arms where they suddenly lashed out, got squirmy where they almost literally flew out of my arms. You know that let me bend over head, heavy move.

I agree completely. A squirming, excited or tired or "insert any possible emotion here" toddler can easily fall out of ANYONE'S arms.

There but for the Grace of God, go I.

 

[nkereina]

You just wonder how many other squirmy children have been in that same area, with the same windows open, without a problem before? Does anyone know how long the ship has been in operation?

If it did occur this way, it was probably just the perfect storm - just the right squirm and just the right unsteadiness from the grandfather. It would just be a freak accident and not a regular occurrence.

Last winter, my friend was kicking ice off the wheel well of his car. His foot got stuck and he slipped at the same time, causing him to snap his ankle. People kick ice off their car every day and don't get injured - it was just the perfect unfortunate occurrences lining up to create that outcome, which I would guess is what happened here. Unless we learn that the grandfather WAS dangling her out of that window, which is an entirely different story.

I don't recall there being windows that open

I've cruised on Royal's Oasis of the Seas, and there were open windows in public areas. Definitely in the Solarium and near the hot tubs. A PP mentioned that sometimes windows are opened up in port when they aren't moving, which allows for air flow.

 

[Hikergirl]

In the picture posted above of the interior windows I guess I could see how it would look like it was closed if the one side was slid open. I would think the glass panes surrounding it would have to be spotless and crystal clear so if one side was, and the others weren't, it wouldn't jump out at you.
I don't think having a lawyer in this situation is a bad thing, there is an investigation, you are distraught so you may need someone to help you to understand what is going on, especially if witnesses and the police were saying you were dangling the baby out of the window at first.

 

[Nancyg56]

Many years ago we arrived at the Beach Club Villas. Both sets of in laws were meeting us there. On the way my wife's parents called to cancel. They had made it half way when they found out there was a death in the family and they were headed to be with that part of the family instead. We would call the trip short a day early to be at the funeral. My parents arrived at virtually the same time we did to the resort but the scooter we had rented to be delivered to the resort was no where to be found.

While my wife talked to my parents about the death, I tried to get a hold of the scooter company to find out what was going on, the kids ran around the room, supervised but not really.

A few moments later my wife started screaming, a scream you know is something serious. Our four year old daughter had pushed a chair up to the balcony and was balanced on her knees on the fourth floor railing. The railing in our villa was half solid and she could not see so she figured out a way to be able to see.

It happened within five minutes of arriving to the room.

Luckily she was not physically hurt, though she was scared so bad by my wife's scream that she did cry for some time.

Tragedy is always just a moment away.

OMG, I had my own flashback when I read this sad story. My youngest was 8 years old and had energy to spare. We had driven to the CR and had waited a good bit of time to register and get our rooms. This was 32 years ago. Anyway Dan was beyond excited and on our way to the room he dashed off to look over the concrete, and for the love of all that is holy, I have never seen my DH run that fast to catch him before he catapulted over the ledge.

As much as it would be easy to criticize this poor man, I am going to refrain. Our family was in a different place and made different decisions that day, but I still feel that the outcome could have been very different had we not been very lucky. He and his family were not lucky. We were not trying to be negligent, and normally I was that hovering Mom who did not even like swings, and I cannot believe this poor GF had thought this through and went forward with an act that ended in tragedy. People can and do make decisions when they are excited or happy and may not realize the end result because they are on unfamiliar ground.

 

[pweyl36]

I cant believe the first thing to do is call a lawyer.

 

[luvsJack]

I cant believe the first thing to is call a lawyer.

I imagine the lawyer called them.

 

[gwynne]

In the picture posted above of the interior windows I guess I could see how it would look like it was closed if the one side was slid open. I would think the glass panes surrounding it would have to be spotless and crystal clear so if one side was, and the others weren't, it wouldn't jump out at you.
I don't think having a lawyer in this situation is a bad thing, there is an investigation, you are distraught so you may need someone to help you to understand what is going on, especially if witnesses and the police were saying you were dangling the baby out of the window at first.

There are many reasons to have an attorney in this situation.
Hopefully the investigation will yield facts about what happened that very sad day.

 

[Colleen27]

Perhaps the grandfather's eyesight wasn't good and/or he hadn't been on a cruise before?

That was my first thought too. I haven't cruised, but I've been a lot of places and seen/done enough to feel like it is unusual to see glass so clean you can't tell if a window is open or closed. Especially not the kind of thick, tempered glass that is used in railings and viewing decks, and I imagine what is used on ships would be similar. But if he has visual issues, the relatively subtle difference between glass and an open window might not be easily noticeable. And given the height and size of the window, I can see how a wriggly toddler could very easily cause an adult, especially an older adult who wasn't expecting to have to be so vigilant (if he thought the window was closed and there was nowhere she could go), to lose his grip.

 

[PollyannaMom]

What an awful tragedy!

And on top of losing that poor little girl, guilt and blame are likely to tear the family apart.

 

[mousefan73]

My Coworker just commented on a very good point. People are making a big deal of this because it happened on a cruise ship. But in essence a cruise ship is just like a high-rise building and unfortunately having children fall from windows or balconies from buildings is not unheard of