This is just so sad,,and makes me ask WHY would someone do this?? I don't call it 'playing'??

[mjkacmom]

Agree the mind can do wierd things even to normal people. One time I was so sleep deprived when I went to pick up a dirty sock off the bathroom floor and put in the laundry hamper in my mind I did that. When in reality I flushed the sock down the toilet. True story. Strangest thing As in my mind I saw myself putting it into laundry basket.

A couple of weeks ago, I was at a bbq with my family, I was the designated driver. I went into the house, and came out and walked into the glass storm door (beforehand I was actually annoyed that the teens in the house left the door opened, not seeing the storm door). I’m 52, but my vision is not what it used to be.

 

[ronandannette]

I guess one thing to find out is if this lawyer represents the toddler's parents/grandparents or some other members of the family.

Less than 48 hours after this tragic accident and they've already retained US lawyers? If it was a defense lawyer to protect them I would understand.

The mother is a lawyer (former Prosecutor) and the father is law-enforcement. "Legal" is the world they live in; I'm sure it struck them as a very reasonable thing to do. I also agree with several posters who have pointed out there would have been any number of firms immediately persuing them.

Sometimes lawsuits are filed, even for monetary damages, yet in the end what the plaintiff asks isn't really financial, but more a change of policies, practices, design, etc. Money won't be the balm to ease anyone's pain in this one.

I'm not sure if it's the same in the States, but here we have a provision for Fatality Enquiries, undertaken by the Province, when the circumstances of a death are non-criminal and may be of consequence to "public" safety. These hearings are very extensive and heard by a Judge only in order to avoid any emotionalism. "Responsibility" is determined and is almost always found to be shared between a number of parties, often including the deceased themselves. There are no criminal implications and the findings of an Enquiry cannot be admitted into evidence in civil suit. If corporate or governmental entities are found to bear responsibility, the court can mandate changes to any facility, system or process as may be appropriate. This process largely circumvents civil suits that are filed simply in order to make a point.

I agree that RCL will most likely make changes, fault or no fault. Someone in a FB cruise group posted that their DCL ship had an open verandah on deck 12. I have no idea if this is true, but I do wonder if other cruise lines will make changes. With the sheer number of people cruising, it seems that falls are usually due to passenger negligence. My heart goes out to this family.

Probably not any more. There will probably window bars put up. Or they will be sealed off now, due to this one in a gazillion accident.

I'd lay money those windows change regardless.

No, I highly doubt any changes will be made. I'm not sure if any of you are cruisers, but windows or no windows, there are countless areas on each ship that passengers have access to the "edge". Not a chance these will all be modified. Uh-uh. Nope.

 

[okeydokey]

I read that the little girl would pound on the glass at her brothers hockey games and wanted to pound on the glass window on the ship. The grandfather held her up to do that thinking there was glass in the window and there wasn’t. She fell forward and he lost his grab on her.

 

[Imzadi]

Maybe something as simple as some decorative spikes just on the edge of the window so no one sits their kid on the edge again? It wouldn't be a bad idea on a balcony either, although people do like to lean on balconies.

Yeah, I wouldn’t like not being able to rest my arms on the balcony. I can’t think of a time when I didn’t touch the rail.

We have the an actual story now:

This is the story told by the family's attorney, when he interviewed with Inside Edition, which aired 2 hours ago. The little girl wasn't sitting on the window sill after all. He says the grandfather picked her up and placed her to stand on the railing, so she could bang on the window. He let her go for a moment. That's when she fell though the open window, that he didn't realize was open. At the 1:19 mark, it says that law enforcement in Puerto Rico are investigating whether he should face criminal charges. What a horrible mess, all around.

 

[msjprincess]

So here's my question... these open windows are basically the same height as the railing on a balcony cabin. If you think these windows should be blocked to prevent another similar accident, should something be done to all balconies on all cruise ships? If not, why not?

I've been on Freedom. I have a video link in my signature. If someone honestly saw the open window and thought there was glass there (despite every other window around it looking different), they shouldn't be put in charge of a toddler.

I agree. The windows are the same height as all of the railings on Freedom, and other ships.

I've been on Freedom and Independence several times. It's obvious when the windows are open. They're tinted and there's a breeze. In the pictures flygirl posted you can tell which windows are open from all the way on the other side of the ship.

 

[elle21]

But you don’t let go of a baby that you have ‘put’ on a semi high railing even if there IS glass in it. It’s bizarre that he didn’t realize there wasn’t glass. It’s even more bizarre to intentionally let go for a moment. I wonder if alcohol played into it.
Clearly the family is looking for someone else to blame. Sad.

 

[lifesavacation]

We have the actual story now:

This is the story told by the family's attorney, when he interviewed with Inside Edition, which aired 2 hours ago. The little girl wasn't sitting on the window sill after all. He says the grandfather picked her up and placed her to stand on the railing, so she could bang on the window. He let her go for a moment. That's when she fell though the open window, that he didn't realize was open. At the 1:19 mark, it says that law enforcement in Puerto Rico are investigating whether he should face criminal charges. What a horrible mess, all around.

I believe that’s how it happened and I believe it was a tragic accident. And I’m not trying to victim blame. But even if he thought the window was closed, it’s still not safe to stand an 18 month old up on a railing and let go of them. They could fall off the railing.

 

[fly girl]

But you don’t let go of a baby that you have ‘put’ on a semi high railing even if there IS glass in it. It’s bizarre that he didn’t realize there wasn’t glass. It’s even more bizarre to intentionally let go for a moment. I wonder if alcohol played into it.
Clearly the family is looking for someone else to blame. Sad.

They have repeatedly said alcohol wasn’t a factor. The grandfather doesn’t drink.

 

[fly girl]

We have the actual story now:

This is the story told by the family's attorney, when he interviewed with Inside Edition, which aired 2 hours ago. The little girl wasn't sitting on the window sill after all. He says the grandfather picked her up and placed her to stand on the railing, so she could bang on the window. He let her go for a moment. That's when she fell though the open window, that he didn't realize was open. At the 1:19 mark, it says that law enforcement in Puerto Rico are investigating whether he should face criminal charges. What a horrible mess, all around.

Criminal charges against the grandfather? Ugh. I think he’s living a hard enough sentence.

I still think you can clearly see which windows are open, but maybe that day you couldn’t? Maybe his sight was bad? Who knows.

But I really don’t see how this was RCCL fault. He put a toddler on a rail. Yes, he thought it was closed. But it isn’t normal practice to put a child on rail like that. I still see it as a tragic accident and not the cruise lines fault.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

Those who believe it wasn't obvious that the window was open probably haven't cruised on one of these ships. @fly girl's post shows the tinted windows & the contrast with the open windows. It's even more obvious in person. This particular ship is 11 years old & hasn't had any issues with open windows. There are many more ships out there that also haven't had a problem. I believe it was a tragic accident, but I don't believe the GF didn't know the window was open. The fact that he chose the only open window makes that explanation less likely. Regardless, my heart breaks for this family. The grandfather will never recover from this. I think that's punishment enough.

 

[elle21]

They have repeatedly said alcohol wasn’t a factor. The grandfather doesn’t drink.

Sorry...I did not see that in the few reports that I read.
Just really poor judgement then. He will forever live with his mistake.

 

[gwynne]

Criminal charges against the grandfather? Ugh. I think he’s living a hard enough sentence.

I still think you can clearly see which windows are open, but maybe that day you couldn’t? Maybe his sight was bad? Who knows.

But I really don’t see how this was RCCL fault. He put a toddler on a rail. Yes, he thought it was closed. But it isn’t normal practice to put a child on rail like that. I still see it as a tragic accident and not the cruise lines fault.

Criminal charges are a possibility. This is why I did not judge legal representation.
Consider the difference in legal responsibility some would see if the caregiver was a nanny instead of a grandfather.

Personally, I hope there are no charges. This is a wound that will never heal for this family. They had their lives before the terrible day, and the rest of their lives are the painful after.

 

[fly girl]

Sorry...I did not see that in the few reports that I read.
Just really poor judgement then. He will forever live with his mistake.

You weren’t alone in thinking alcohol as a factor. I initially wondered that too. I’m actually glad it wasn’t. Then I’d have to reconsider it bring a criminal act.

I do grieve for him. I have been thinking about him in that split second ... my mind can even go to the reality of what he went through. No doubt I’d be suicidal.

 

[wgeo]

I don't think it's fair to say "we have the actual story now". What we have is the families version that they are putting out thru their lawyer. And it is absolutely within their right to do so. However, it is incredibly easy to convince yourself that you have a memory of something that isn't quite accurate. In the interest of self preservation I'm sure they have a version of the story that at least "lessons" the pain of the accident somewhat. Due to their, obvious, emotional attachment I wouldn't believe we had the "actual story" until we saw a real time video of the accident.

To be honest, for the sake of the family, I hope there is no actual video of the incident. I personally hope they can create a version of the memory in their minds that somewhat allows them to live through the horror and the guilt and that they are able to move on with their lives. i hope that they don't end up suing RCCL and just focus on moving forward with their lives. It's just a tragedy.

 

[fly girl]

Criminal charges are a possibility. This is why I did not judge legal representation.
Consider the difference in legal responsibility some would see if the caregiver was a nanny instead of a grandfather.

Personally, I hope there are no charges. This is a wound that will never heal for this family. They had their lives before the terrible day, and the rest of their lives are the painful after.

Interesting point, I think if it was a nanny my compassion wouldn’t be on the same level. Not even close. I am sure many nanny’s love the kids they watch like their own, but it’s just not the same to me as a mother or grandfather. That love is typically all consuming and unconditional. They wouldn’t think twice about putting their own life at risk for the child - idk if a nanny would.

I’m going back to the Pittsburgh Zoo mom, they did originally file criminal charges. But after looking at the entire situation, they came to the realization what she is going through mentally was far worse than anything they could give her.

Like you, I think living this tragedy is punishment enough.

 

[FigmentSpark]

Likely an eyesight thing. If his eyes aren't great and he didn't have the right glasses, it's possible he didn't notice the difference even if the windows are tinted.

 

[wgeo]

Likely an eyesight thing. If his eyes aren't great and he didn't have the right glasses, it's possible he didn't notice the difference even if the windows are tinted.

We just got off a RCCL cruise a few weeks ago - sometimes the windows on deck 11 were open, sometimes they weren't - there was sooo much activity and things and people going on that it wasn't something I paid attention to at all. In my opinion, I could easily see making that mistake, just looking for a spot at the windows that wasn't occupied and not actually paying attention to the window itself.

 

[DLgal]

We have the actual story now:

This is the story told by the family's attorney, when he interviewed with Inside Edition, which aired 2 hours ago. The little girl wasn't sitting on the window sill after all. He says the grandfather picked her up and placed her to stand on the railing, so she could bang on the window. He let her go for a moment. That's when she fell though the open window, that he didn't realize was open. At the 1:19 mark, it says that law enforcement in Puerto Rico are investigating whether he should face criminal charges. What a horrible mess, all around.

Are you freaking kidding me????

This story just keeps getting worse and worse.

I'm starting to think the original report that he was playing and dangling the kid over the edge might be the real story here. This story has changed way too many times, but this current version actually makes the GF look SUPER negligent, but maybe less negligent than if he said he was dangling her over the edge. The fact that RCCL is NOT saying anything leads me to believe they know the truth.

 

[FigmentSpark]

RCCL probably does have video. Don't they (and all leisure ships) have video monitoring the outside of the ship?

 

[msjprincess]

I read that the little girl would pound on the glass at her brothers hockey games and wanted to pound on the glass window on the ship. The grandfather held her up to do that thinking there was glass in the window and there wasn’t. She fell forward and he lost his grab on her.

That makes even less sense to me. The windows are floor to ceiling. She could have stood and done that. No need to pick her up.