The Vaccine Discussion Thread

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Another real-life personal story to share on vaccine distribution. DW and a dental hygienist friend were recipients today of dose 1 from Moderna. DW is a no-longer-clinical research consultant with limited work exposure, but nonetheless a healthcare professional who keeps her state nursing license active. Our county recently made the (un)official move to the next phase of distribution, with limited access to healthcare workers not necessarily on the frontlines of hospital care. The current phase will go for another week or so before publicly expanding to basically anyone who can even remotely claim a tie to healthcare. Most indications at my hospital of employment are that we hope to be hitting essential frontline workers (retail, food production and supply chain, Montana’s massive energy infrastructure employees, etc) by Valentines Day at the latest

Both ladies report a little tenderness at the injection site, but nothing else to report.

It’s a little slower than anyone would hope, but it’s happening. Hang in there. We’ll sail again. Happy New Year.
 
The feds have expected overwhelmed state health departments to organize vaccination plans.
 
An update on the Chinese Sinopharm's vaccine: it has now been approved for general public use in China.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/30/asia/china-sinopharm-vaccine-efficacy-intl-hnk/index.html
Some highlights:

* The efficacy in the Phase III trails is clocking in at just under 80%.
* Because of few domestic cases, they have had to conduct the trials in about 10 other countries.
* This vaccine doesn't require cold storage.
* They expect to produce about a billion does of this vaccine in 2021.
* China has four other vaccine candidates in late-stage trials.
 


The reports I am seeing show vaccine acceptance waning, not growing. Below is a recent example:

https://news.yahoo.com/covid-19-vaccines-come-online-140009513.html

They're comparing April 2020 to November/December, or a theoretical vaccine to reality. "Would you take it" has also changed in a lot of peoples minds to "will it be forced" so it's not really the same question anymore if you're in the US.

My MIL falls into this group - as she has read a lot of fear mongering about a "rushed" vaccine she is now saying she will not take it when she was totally onboard back in April. If you ask her why she cannot say, other than its "rushed" and will make her sick "like the flu vaccine". To my knowledge she has always tolerated the flu vaccine well though she stopped taking it when my compromised FIL passed a few years ago. If you ask her which one she doesn't like she can't tell you, she just says all of them. I feel like it's worth noting she lives alone in a rural area and all her kids live in west coast cities. We all plan on getting vaccinated at the earliest opportunity.
 
They're comparing April 2020 to November/December, or a theoretical vaccine to reality. "Would you take it" has also changed in a lot of peoples minds to "will it be forced" so it's not really the same question anymore if you're in the US.

My MIL falls into this group - as she has read a lot of fear mongering about a "rushed" vaccine she is now saying she will not take it when she was totally onboard back in April. If you ask her why she cannot say, other than its "rushed" and will make her sick "like the flu vaccine". To my knowledge she has always tolerated the flu vaccine well though she stopped taking it when my compromised FIL passed a few years ago. If you ask her which one she doesn't like she can't tell you, she just says all of them. I feel like it's worth noting she lives alone in a rural area and all her kids live in west coast cities. We all plan on getting vaccinated at the earliest opportunity.
I will probably take it, but I won't rush.
 


I will probably take it, but I won't rush.

We've been mostly shut down here since March... it's seemed to work though. We're still #3 for lowest number of cases but are among one of the strictest states. I don't need or expect life to immediately go back to normal, but it would be nice to stop the microaggressions in my household when one of us does something the other one doesn't like. (Wearing a cotton mask instead of a KN95 upsets my husband but they trigger headaches if I have to be at work a long time. Conversely he's been seeing his best friend from time to time to help him with random things but complains if I want to visit with my parents for a social visit since they don't NEED me to do anything while I'm there.) If I can get some pressure off that'd be worth it. I'm not afraid of the vaccine... well OK I'd stay from Moderna if I had any fillers but that's it.
 
vaccines are not the end all.

Actually if you look at the big picture, they are. The small pox vaccine had only a 95% efficacy rate but it was still able to eradicate the disease from the earth. Forever. My siblings have the scar from their small pox vaccine but I didn't need it. It was gone by then.
Vaccine Basics | Smallpox | CDC

We are so close to eradicating polio from the earth. I am hopeful that some day when I have grandchildren, they won't need a polio vaccine.
 
Actually if you look at the big picture, they are. The small pox vaccine had only a 95% efficacy rate but it was still able to eradicate the disease from the earth. Forever. My siblings have the scar from their small pox vaccine but I didn't need it. It was gone by then.
Vaccine Basics | Smallpox | CDC

We are so close to eradicating polio from the earth. I am hopeful that some day when I have grandchildren, they won't need a polio vaccine.
Unfortunately, 2020 was a terrible year for polio eradication.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...ut-polio-was-going-really-well-until-it-wasnt
The pandemic is part of the problem. In March, WHO ordered a pause to all polio eradication campaigns to make sure vaccinators going door to door weren't unwittingly contributing to the spread of COVID-19. That order was lifted over the summer, but "as a result, 30 to 40 countries have not conducted mass immunization campaigns," Zaffran says. "During that period, up to 80 million children have been left unprotected against polio."
 
I just saw this article today and wondered if half doses are just as effective as full doses, why the full doses?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-may-cut-moderna-vaccine-024023417.html
Here is the quote: "We know it induces identical immune response" to the full dose, he added.
It looks like there is more to mine here.

For example, the data apparently is showing similar immune response (between the two dosing regimens) for those in the 18-55 age group. Now, that's revealing (if true). On its own, this won't help much immediately as that age group is further down the priority list anyways, but you can use similar insights to segment your population and target specific demographics differently. Maybe this isn't just a one-size-fits-all solution.
 
Good clarification. Its a wonder the CDC has time to focus on other countries right now.

They can only do so much. They can't make the virus magically go away. They can't make the sick suddenly better. Like they say, we're all in this together. The US is one of the wealthiest countries on earth. Even our "poor" have so much more than the poor in other countries who are truly dirt poor. I would not be surprised if whatever vaccines we have left over will be donated to poor countries.

Manufacturing and distribution is happening but getting it down to the local levels is where progress slows. For one thing, there are simply not enough health care workers to take care of the sick, take care of the well (as in preventative care) and administer the vaccines. Yesterday, I x-rayed a nurse who used to work in labor & delivery at our hospital who is now retired but she said she is looking into returning to nursing to help give the injections. Most people in healthcare feel a strong sense of duty. Many of those recently retired would be the perfect candidate for something like this. There's no heavy lifting involved, bed baths, etc. Also it's temporary. Sure it may take a year or more but eventually the need for extra help will lessen.

I sent an email to our governor today, reminding him that when we had the H1N1 pandemic my vaccine was given to me by a nursing student. IM injections are the easiest to learn and let's face it, once you do something 10,000 times, you become quite proficient at it. There's no good reason not to ask nursing students and medical students to step up for the cause. It's a win-win situation. They improve their clinical skills and the public gets the vaccine they need.

The other issue is that they need a computer system that can track everything. The government keeps a lot of records of people (IRS, births, deaths, DMV, etc.) but they don't normally keep medical records. They don't already have a system for it. Back when I got the H1N1 vaccine, our county was offering it free and since it was only 1 dose, we got the shot and was given a record of the details, basically a carbon copy with the date, lot # etc. They had no responsibility for follow up for a 2nd dose.
Now they have to make sure that people who get the first dose return for the 2nd one. Also they have to make sure that the 2nd appointment is at the proper spacing, which varies among vaccines, and that the 2nd dose is the same vaccine as the first dose. Their system will need to be able to keep records for contacting patients with reminders. I wonder if they're not also setting up some method for people to give proof of their reason for getting theirs ahead of others. Being over 60 is easy enough to prove but will they make grocery store workers show their paystub to prove where they work? What about those with asthma, heart disease or on dialysis? Will they need to prove it or will they just accept that many selfish people will lie to get it sooner?

It seems to me that despite the manufacturers talking about vaccine progress since March, the state and local governments have been completely unprepared, as if that is a "some day" thing to worry about some time down the road. Well, here it is and they're bumbling with it. Again and again private companies are so much more efficient than anything our governements puts its hands on.
 
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