THE LIBERAL THREAD #3- No Debate Please

[Goofyluver]

Lesbian and wiccan?

She must be eternally damned.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

So this person wants to be an egg donor? Because they have pretty stringent requirements: Young (generally under 28, although some clinics are less strict), educated, healthy (no previous miscarriages or infertility issues), no history of mental illness (including the use of anti-depressants) and let's face it, reasonably attractive. Also, I don't think the donor gets a choice in who their eggs go to. At least that's how my lesbian wiccan friend described it when she used an egg donor.

Uh oh...here we go!

 

[chrisw127]

Lesbian and wiccan?

She must be eternally damned.

And a phd in English. Going straight to the hot place, that one.

 

[Laura]

And a phd in English. Going straight to the hot place, that one.

Well, I only have a BA in English. Maybe I'll be okay.

My best friend looked into egg donation and she fit the profile--she was 27-28 at the time, highly educated, good-looking, fit, etc. She was eventually rejected. On the ultrasound of her ovaries, one looked rather large. After a laparascope to get a better look, it turned out her ovary was okay, but another organ (small intestine I think) was partly draped over it. Very weird.

 

[chrisw127]

Well, I only have a BA in English. Maybe I'll be okay.

My best friend looked into egg donation and she fit the profile--she was 27-28 at the time, highly educated, good-looking, fit, etc. She was eventually rejected. On the ultrasound of her ovaries, one looked rather large. After a laparascope to get a better look, it turned out her ovary was okay, but another organ (small intestine I think) was partly draped over it. Very weird.

Strange about your friend's ovary. I hope she doesn't have problems if she wants to have kids.

Be glad you have a BA and not a PHD (pretty heavily in debt ) My friend is now in nursing school because the only jobs she could find were geographically undesirable for her partner (and at not so great schools).

BTW, you're a liberal, so you're probably not going to heaven. I'm sure you're up to no good somehow.

 

[Laura]

Strange about your friend's ovary. I hope she doesn't have problems if she wants to have kids.

Be glad you have a BA and not a PHD (pretty heavily in debt ) My friend is now in nursing school because the only jobs she could find were geographically undesirable for her partner (and at not so great schools).

BTW, you're a liberal, so you're probably not going to heaven. I'm sure you're up to no good somehow.

My friend actually doesn't want to have kids, at least not biological kids. It was definitely a strange thing to happen to her ovary, but certainly better than having PCOS or ovarian cancer, which was the fear. At my 18 week ultrasound, they measured my ovaries--kinda neat to see them. I gave them a wave. One of them worked! My mom had fertility issues and went through a lot of crap before she could have kids; her ovaries were the problem. Fortunately for me, I didn't get that gene and pregnancy came easily. Phew!

I'm planning on going back to school myself, but business school--MBA--I wonder if that counts for anything?

 

[Reflection]

And a phd in English. Going straight to the hot place, that one.

PhDs in English only get to that halfway place. You've got to have a PhD in art history to make it to real Purgatory.

 

[chris1gill]

Ooooh. They must REALLY hate Powell now.



http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/powell_limbaugh/2008/12/11/161019.html?s=al&promo_code=7443-1

Sounds like Powell has figured out the state of Politics... I think they hated Powell to begin with, so this won't add to that...

 

[chris1gill]

Pouring gasoline on a fire today, are we?

Laura isn't alone... although I'm interested slightly in a few different religions. Actually I would like to take a comparative religion course now that I'm older. Course our University is ultra Liberal, so it will be a Liberal comparative religion course, which might mean they have no agenda other than to teach impartial knowledge on the subject.

 

[chris1gill]

We must start our celebrations tomorrow in honor of the Mesopotamians (my son has a great understanding of their time and place, he has a complete knack for Roman and Greek history), anyhow, their celebrations started tomorrow...

So we must start our honor of celebrations tomorrow, to be inclusive of course.


http://www.holidays.net/christmas/story.htm

The History of Christmas

The history of Christmas dates back over 4000 years. Many of our Christmas traditions were celebrated centuries before the Christ child was born. The 12 days of Christmas, the bright fires, the yule log, the giving of gifts, carnivals(parades) with floats, carolers who sing while going from house to house, the holiday feasts, and the church processions can all be traced back to the early Mesopotamians.

Many of these traditions began with the Mesopotamian celebration of New Years. The Mesopotamians believed in many gods, and as their chief god - Marduk. Each year as winter arrived it was believed that Marduk would do battle with the monsters of chaos. To assist Marduk in his struggle the Mesopotamians held a festival for the New Year. This was Zagmuk, the New Year's festival that lasted for 12 days.

The Mesopotamian king would return to the temple of Marduk and swear his faithfulness to the god. The traditions called for the king to die at the end of the year and to return with Marduk to battle at his side.

To spare their king, the Mesopotamians used the idea of a "mock" king. A criminal was chosen and dressed in royal clothes. He was given all the respect and privileges of a real king. At the end of the celebration the "mock" king was stripped of the royal clothes and slain, sparing the life of the real king.

The Persians and the Babylonians celebrated a similar festival called the Sacaea. Part of that celebration included the exchanging of places, the slaves would become the masters and the masters were to obey.

Early Europeans believed in evil spirits, witches, ghosts and trolls. As the Winter Solstice approached, with its long cold nights and short days, many people feared the sun would not return. Special rituals and celebrations were held to welcome back the sun.

In Scandinavia during the winter months the sun would disappear for many days. After thirty-five days scouts would be sent to the mountain tops to look for the return of the sun. When the first light was seen the scouts would return with the good news. A great festival would be held, called the Yuletide, and a special feast would be served around a fire burning with the Yule log. Great bonfires would also be lit to celebrate the return of the sun. In some areas people would tie apples to branches of trees to remind themselves that spring and summer would return.

The ancient Greeks held a festival similar to that of the Zagmuk/Sacaea festivals to assist their god Kronos who would battle the god Zeus and his Titans.

The Roman's celebrated their god Saturn. Their festival was called Saturnalia which began the middle of December and ended January 1st. With cries of "Jo Saturnalia!" the celebration would include masquerades in the streets, big festive meals, visiting friends, and the exchange of good-luck gifts called Strenae (lucky fruits).

The Romans decked their halls with garlands of laurel and green trees lit with candles. Again the masters and slaves would exchange places

"Jo Saturnalia!" was a fun and festive time for the Romans, but the Christians though it an abomination to honor the pagan god. The early Christians wanted to keep the birthday of their Christ child a solemn and religious holiday, not one of cheer and merriment as was the pagan Saturnalia.

But as Christianity spread they were alarmed by the continuing celebration of pagan customs and Saturnalia among their converts. At first the Church forbid this kind of celebration. But it was to no avail. Eventually it was decided that the celebration would be tamed and made into a celebration fit for the Christian Son of God.

Some legends claim that the Christian "Christmas" celebration was invented to compete against the pagan celebrations of December. The 25th was not only sacred to the Romans but also the Persians whose religion Mithraism was one of Christianity's main rivals at that time. The Church eventually was successful in taking the merriment, lights, and gifts from the Saturanilia festival and bringing them to the celebration of Christmas.

The exact day of the Christ child's birth has never been pinpointed. Traditions say that it has been celebrated since the year 98 AD. In 137 AD the Bishop of Rome ordered the birthday of the Christ Child celebrated as a solemn feast. In 350 AD another Bishop of Rome, Julius I, choose December 25th as the observance of Christmas.

 

[bicker]

There's a thread out there, right now, where I think some folks' heads would explode if you posted that in those threads.

 

[chris1gill]

There's a thread out there, right now, where I think some folks' heads would explode if you posted that in those threads.

Well now, you and I both know that would be a problem. However, for those of us more tolerant and interested, we should recognize that the Holiday season is filled with MANY holiday's, not just one (just so happens this one starts tomorrow). My BIL celebrates a different Holiday than we do, my brother celebrates yet a different Celebration that goes back to our roots. It is the Holiday season and should be recognized as such. I'm sure most here on this thread recognizes this, since most of us are interested in History and traditions.

 

[Goofyluver]

Well now, you and I both know that would be a problem. However, for those of us more tolerant and interested, we should recognize that the Holiday season is filled with MANY holiday's, not just one (just so happens this one starts tomorrow). My BIL celebrates a different Holiday than we do, my brother celebrates yet a different Celebration that goes back to our roots. It is the Holiday season and should be recognized as such. I'm sure most here on this thread recognizes this, since most of us are interested in History and traditions.

But...but...Chris. I thought this nation is a nation of only one religious persuasion? Don't we all have to follow the so-called majority? Dissenting opinions/belief aren't allowed, are they?

Pooh to history and traditions! Pooh!

 

[chris1gill]

But...but...Chris. I thought this nation is a nation of only one religious persuasion? Don't we all have to follow the so-called majority? Dissenting opinions/belief aren't allowed, are they?

Pooh to history and traditions! Pooh!

Well, if you consider Europeans did not arrive here first, and that Separatists and non-Separatists and Separatist sympathizers alike, traveled to America in the 1620s, it is highly unlikely that this Country was founded on any one religion. Without hesitation, I'd say it had ONE religion before the European's came, and then of course the European's brought over yet other citizen's who had an entirely different cultural system. So, if you're looking for a one religion rule, you would have to go back before European's ever arrived.... But I'm just saying, history can be your friend should you read it, as we here do

 

[Goofyluver]

Well, if you consider Europeans did not arrive here first, and that Separatists and non-Separatists and Separatist sympathizers alike, traveled to America in the 1620s, it is highly unlikely that this Country was founded on any one religion. Without hesitation, I'd say it had ONE religion before the European's came, and then of course the European's brought over yet other citizen's who had an entirely different cultural system. So, if you're looking for a one religion rule, you would have to go back before European's ever arrived.... But I'm just saying, history can be your friend should you read it, as we here do

History is only relevant if it supports what you find to be relevant. Right?

At least that's what I've learned on this here DIS.

 

[chris1gill]

History is only relevant if it supports what you find to be relevant. Right?

At least that's what I've learned on this here DIS.

This would be true, no wonder some professions are so disliked among some...

 

[Saxsoon]

Sorry to pop in, the history of Christmas thing caught my eye. If I am not mistaken the itcthus is actually a Fertility Goddess symbol. Pretty interesting stuff.

 

[Laura]

Sorry to pop in, the history of Christmas thing caught my eye. If I am not mistaken the itcthus is actually a Fertility Goddess symbol. Pretty interesting stuff.

I had not heard that, but I think it's very likely just a coincidence that early Christians used it. I did know that the serpent (of Eden fame) was a goddess symbol.

 

[Island_Lauri]

But...but...Chris. I thought this nation is a nation of only one religious persuasion? Don't we all have to follow the so-called majority? Dissenting opinions/belief aren't allowed, are they?

Pooh to history and traditions! Pooh!

Have you ever noticed how much the attitudes of "some" on the Religious Right match up with the Taliban?


Kingdom Coming: The Rise of Christian Nationalism - Thom Hartmann's "Independent Thinker" Book of the Month Review

http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/hartmann/7

"As a resurgent Taliban takes over large swatches of Afghanistan, changing that nation's social mores, educational curriculum, and legal system, many Americans would be shocked to discover how massive and powerful the new American Christian Taliban has become. So powerful, in fact, that it could be argued it's taken over large portions of the federal government, several state governments, and thousands of county and municipal governments.

Indeed, billions of dollars of your and my taxpayer dollars are today being diverted to GOP-affiliated ultra-rightist so-called Christian "charities" across the nation, without even the benefit of enabling legislation in many cases. As Michelle Goldberg writes in "Kingdom Coming":

"The diversion of billions of taxpayer dollars from secular social service organizations to such sectarian religious outfits has been one of the most underreported stories of the Bush presidency. Bush's faith-based initiatives have become a spoils system for evangelical ministries, which are now involved in everything from prison programs and job training to teenage pregnancy prevention, supplanting the safety net that was supposed to catch all Americans. As a result of faith-based grants, a growing number of government-funded social service jobs explicitly refuse to hire Jews, gay people, and other undesirables; such discrimination is defended by the administration and its surrogates in the name of religious freedom. Bringing the disposed to Jesus Christ has become something very close to a domestic policy goal of the United States government. And all this has happened with far less notice or public debate than attended the removal of Terri Schaivo's feeding tube or the halftime baring of Janet Jackson's breast."

What Goldberg brilliantly reveals in this wonderfully readable and thoroughly researched book is the extent and reach of the Christian Nationalist movement in the USA -- what is rapidly becoming a theocratic shadow government, intent on nothing less than rolling back the Enlightenment of the late 17th and 18th centuries, and replacing it with something that very resembles the Puritanism of Oliver Cromwell, a pseudo-Christian version of the Islam of Osama Bin Laden.

I say "pseudo Christian" (although Goldberg does not - she doesn't engage in theological debate in her book) because for most people like myself who were raised as Christians, the Christian Nationalists propound a form of church/state merger, and an essential theology, that is completely at odds with the Jesus of the Sermon on the Mount and Matthew 25 ("feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit those in prison, heal the sick," etc.).

Instead, their Jesus is a muscular militarist who hates gays, is the first to see and condemn sin in others, and finds salvation not in poverty and charity but in building multi-million-dollar ministries, living high, and preaching that all problems are solved, all sins redeemed, all diseases cured (both physical and political) by simple belief in His name. This Jesus hates science, wants to use the power of the state to finance his ventures and punish his enemies, and wants to use the power of police, prisons, and courts to enforce his rigid view of everything from the role of women in society to the sanctity of the American flag.

This is not the Jesus that most Christians know, but it's the Jesus in whose name a powerful and unrelenting movement is working to establish a theocracy in America. This Jesus is so far from the Biblical Jesus, in fact, that most in the movement refers to Him in His role -- Christ -- rather than His name - Jesus. The Jesus of the Bible, after all, had long hair, was homeless, hung out with social misfits, and preached poverty, pacifism, and mysticism. Hardly appropriate company for wealthy and powerful men like Falwell, Robertson, and Bush.

 

[Amirah95]

Hello everyone! I'm off of Obamacation. I'm now waiting for Jan. 20 to roll around. Totally on cloud 9.