The Learning Curve

[wenrob]

Groucho, thank you, good to know it isn't a huge deal. I haven't shot in RAW yet but you guys are close to convincing me.

Pea-n-Me, I know exactly what you're talking about. It seems like you store all this info and then when you actually start shooting it just goes right out of your head. I wanted to try side lighting and spot metering and managed to talk DD into being a model. I remembered to do most things but forgot to make sure there were no shadows crossing her (doh!) and when I metered off her face, I stepped back to adjust rather then do it right there (double doh!) So my pics were underexposed but still savable, at least to me. My biggest issue is I don't get enough time to practice. Shooting manual inside is impossible, total crap light in my house+a lens that doesn't let in enough light. So outside it is and that's just not practical when it's averaging 110! Well, ha, my own little rant I guess.
This was the last time I went out and played w/minor editing, I also played w/a tut about sharpening eyes but I'm not sure I like it:

 

[wenrob]

When your in P, S or A press the +/- button. You should get something on your screen that looks like 0.0. When you turn the command dial it should change (depending on the direction you turn the dial) -0.3 to -0.7 to -1.0 etc...

I will have a look again. When I play w/the exposure comp I seem to only get whole numbers. But then again, like stated in my previous post I may be overlooking it trying to do so many unfamiliar things at one time. Oy, this a lot of work! Thank you for your help.

 

[MarkBarbieri]

As I mentioned before I'm only now learning to shoot manual.

I will have a look again. When I play w/the exposure comp I seem to only get whole numbers. But then again, like stated in my previous post I may be overlooking it trying to do so many unfamiliar things at one time. Oy, this a lot of work! Thank you for your help.

What mode are you shooting in? As Handicap18 stated, exposure compensation doesn't apply in manual mode.

I don't worry too much about rules like setting compensation when shooting grass. If it is something really, really light (like snow or a white dress) or something really, really dark (like a black cat or a tuxedo), I do some compensation. For the rest of the time, I generally trust my meter for at least the first shot.

Once you've taken a shot, check your histogram. It's giving you the truth about what your camera actually captured. If you have overexposed, you'll have pixels bunched up on the right (and blinking parts of your picture). If you have underexposed, you'll have a gap on the right. Learn to read your histogram and rely heavily on it. That will help you much more than learning general rules about when to compensate.

 

[wenrob]

Oh, Geez, no wonder I can't figure it out! I guess I wasn't paying attention to what she actually said.

I try to use the histogram but the meter on the Nikons is opposite of the histogram, + on the left - on the right, so I end up getting things bassackwards. But I'm working on it, just so many things to remember.

 

[Groucho]

What mode are you shooting in? As Handicap18 stated, exposure compensation doesn't apply in manual mode.

Well................

I think most everyone's manual mode has an AE/L or "green" button or similar which will set the shutter speed and aperture to get the correct exposure for the shot, which you can then adjust to your needs. I believe that this initial exposure is adjusted by the exposure compensation.

But manual modes do vary, so YMMV.

 

[handicap18]

Well................

I think most everyone's manual mode has an AE/L or "green" button or similar which will set the shutter speed and aperture to get the correct exposure for the shot, which you can then adjust to your needs. I believe that this initial exposure is adjusted by the exposure compensation.

But manual modes do vary, so YMMV.

With Nikon to adjust Exposure Compensation it is a +/- button near the shutter release and next to the Self Timer button. On the D50, D40, D40x and D60 the +/- button doubles as the button you press to change the f/stop in Manual mode. On these bodies there is only 1 command dial. Therefor in Manual mode there is no possible way to use the Exposure Compensation button to adjust Exposure Compensation. Unless you want to manually change the f/stop, but it doesn't change from -0.0 to -0.3. It changes from f/5.6 to f/6.3 (or vise verse which ever is the correct direction) which in reality is the same thing.

There is the AE-L/AF-L button (on the back near the command dial and view finder), but that doesn't adjust Exposure Compensation. That just locks the exposure or focus so you can recompose your shot.

I find it easier in Manual mode just to change the shutter speed or f/stop rather than press an additional button to achieve the same thing.

 

[wenrob]

You guys are making me dizzy..... The whole numbers I'm talking about are in the actual info menu. I get what you're saying though, in theory LOL. I didn't realize that I could actually move the f stop by 1/3 but again, total newby here, not to mention I suck at math.

 

[handicap18]

You guys are making me dizzy..... The whole numbers I'm talking about are in the actual info menu. I get what you're saying though, in theory LOL. I didn't realize that I could actually move the f stop by 1/3 but again, total newby here, not to mention I suck at math.

Not sure by what you mean about it being in the info menu.

If the theory is there for you, it will eventually hit you in practice. Some one of these days you'll all of a sudden go,,, well yeah, ding ding ding.

F/stops are one of the tougher things for people to figure out at first. They are fractions so the bigger number is actually a smaller hole. 1/2 is bigger than 1/4, therefor f/2 is wider than f/4.

With today's lenses and bodies you can move through f/stops and shutter speeds (and in some bodies ISO) in 1/3 increments. Some camera's have the options to change it to 1/2 increments.

Here is a good chart to show the stops. The bold numbers are the full stops:
http://www.uscoles.com/thirdstops.pdf

 

[oogieboogieman]

Don't worry about Dorky questions here, wenrob, please. I wish we'd hear more of them so we all know we're not alone.


I'm at a weird stage. I'm feeling almost completely lost with my camera. I think I got so much beginning information floating around in my head that it got clogged or something. Because I can't seem to apply my knowledge during photo shoots and I'm not happy with the way my pictures are coming out. I know in my head it's just part of the learning curve, but I'm feeling kind of frustrated.


Anyone else have this happen? Thanks for letting me vent.

All the time! Most of the time it's bonehead mistakes. You know those mistakes where you forget to change back the ISO, underexpose, overexpose, messing around with the WB, etc...
I just erase and start all over. I have noticed that my rate of keepers is getting higher.
We'll see how it goes, just 4 more workdays till 2 weeks at WDW!!!

 

[wenrob]

Not sure by what you mean about it being in the info menu.

Where you change the ISO. In the bottom of that screen there are two buttons, one with a plus sign and one with a minus sign. It just hit me those are probably flash compensation. La, too many things!
Thanks for the chart, I will study it. I can't wait for it to cool off a bit so I can take the kids out without us frying and I can practice.

 

[Groucho]

With Nikon to adjust Exposure Compensation it is a +/- button near the shutter release and next to the Self Timer button. On the D50, D40, D40x and D60 the +/- button doubles as the button you press to change the f/stop in Manual mode. On these bodies there is only 1 command dial. Therefor in Manual mode there is no possible way to use the Exposure Compensation button to adjust Exposure Compensation. Unless you want to manually change the f/stop, but it doesn't change from -0.0 to -0.3. It changes from f/5.6 to f/6.3 (or vise verse which ever is the correct direction) which in reality is the same thing.

There is the AE-L/AF-L button (on the back near the command dial and view finder), but that doesn't adjust Exposure Compensation. That just locks the exposure or focus so you can recompose your shot.

I find it easier in Manual mode just to change the shutter speed or f/stop rather than press an additional button to achieve the same thing.

I'm not suggesting actually setting EC in manual mode, but that if you set it on one mode, it stays set for all modes. Set +1 in Av or Tv, switch to manual, and you probably have a button that will set you to the recommended exposure, taking the EC into account. This is a quick way to get what "should" be right, you can of course still adjust it however you want.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I'm going to post this here before I post it on the Best Shots thread - cause I don't want anyone to think that based on what I said the other day I'm not getting any good shots. I am. It's just that they don't seem to be consistent all the time, which of course, when I hear myself say that seems ridiculous to think would happen anyway.

Without further adieu, I kind of liked this one. I took it with my 50-150 lens - I think it might have come out better had I'd used either the 25mm prime(which I just got) or the 14-42, but I didn't have time to change lenses. I'm not even sure. Thoughts welcome.

 

[wen-tom]

I love it. i dont know enough to offer you any critique but i wanted to say that I think its a fantastic shot

 

[handicap18]

I'm not suggesting actually setting EC in manual mode, but that if you set it on one mode, it stays set for all modes. Set +1 in Av or Tv, switch to manual, and you probably have a button that will set you to the recommended exposure, taking the EC into account. This is a quick way to get what "should" be right, you can of course still adjust it however you want.

Ok, now I get what you meant.

However, I don't think that in practice it works. I just tried it. I set to -1 in aperture priority. When I switch to Manual the icon that shows that EC is set in A now disappears. I checked the meter for what it shows. Then went back to A and took of the EC. Now back to M and the meter is showing the same as it was before.

So I don't necessarily think that that theory works, at least with Nikon.

 

[handicap18]

I'm going to post this here before I post it on the Best Shots thread - cause I don't want anyone to think that based on what I said the other day I'm not getting any good shots. I am. It's just that they don't seem to be consistent all the time, which of course, when I hear myself say that seems ridiculous to think would happen anyway.

Without further adieu, I kind of liked this one. I took it with my 50-150 lens - I think it might have come out better had I'd used either the 25mm prime(which I just got) or the 14-42, but I didn't have time to change lenses. I'm not even sure. Thoughts welcome.

sorry so large, slow to resize

Excellent composition. Excellent lighting. Great closeup. Great background too. Though its not as sharp as it could be. Looking at the EXIF, you were at ISO200 and got a 1/40th shutter speed at 119mm. At that focal length you would want 1/125th shutter speed. ISO800 would have given you 1/160th shutter with the same f/stop.

The bird may have moved slightly and given the out of focus or soft look. Even with the built in IS you need a faster shutter speed for a live subject.

 

[Code]

Excellent composition. Excellent lighting. Great closeup. Great background too. Though its not as sharp as it could be. Looking at the EXIF, you were at ISO200 and got a 1/40th shutter speed at 119mm. At that focal length you would want 1/125th shutter speed. ISO800 would have given you 1/160th shutter with the same f/stop.

The bird may have moved slightly and given the out of focus or soft look. Even with the built in IS you need a faster shutter speed for a live subject.

Keep in mind that if you're using the "conventional wisdom" on shutter speed, you have to take into account the crop factor. Pea is using Olympus, so 2x crop factor means 1/250th at 119mm.

We know this goes out the window with IS, though.. 1/40th is about 2.5 stops below 1/250th so the IS likely did its job (likely as in maybe ).. but you're right about live subjects, definitely needed 1 or 2 stops higher ISO for perfect clarity.

 

[handicap18]

Keep in mind that if you're using the "conventional wisdom" on shutter speed, you have to take into account the crop factor. Pea is using Olympus, so 2x crop factor means 1/250th at 119mm.

We know this goes out the window with IS, though.. 1/40th is about 2.5 stops below 1/250th so the IS likely did its job (likely as in maybe ).. but you're right about live subjects, definitely needed 1 or 2 stops higher ISO for perfect clarity.

Your right. I originally had something else typed out, but then remembered she's using an Olympus with the built in IS. That's why I moved towards the subject movement.

As for the 119mm needing 1/250th, I guess. Even still the 1/125th would have stopped the action of the bird.

The bigger picture (no pun intended) is that she's got a very good composition and the exposure is excellent (lighting wise). That's half the battle (if not more). The numbers stuff will come in time after doing lots of shooting and analyzing of one's own images.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Thanks for the feedback.

So I should have used a faster shutter speed... This is the type of thing that's not instinctual to me yet. Picking out all those factors (ISO, aperture and shutter speed @ certain focal length) along with all the other factors (WB, AF, metering, etc) - so hard to get it all just right in order to capture a good shot.

Will keep plugging away.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Continued from above...Still thinking it through...bear with me...

I believe I used Aperture Priority for my above shot ( bokeh). So, I set the aperture and ISO (it was slightly dark where we were - under trees, but used the lowest I could); my camera obviously chose the shutter speed.

Should I have used Shutter Priority (to freeze the action and presumably get a sharper image)? In that case I would have chosen the shutter speed and ISO, but then the camera would have chosen the aperture (and I may have lost the bokeh)?

I haven't attempted shooting full manual yet (or I should say, I have, without much success, LOL).

My gut feeling was that somehow the lens I was using wasn't the right one (but I was trying to make do). How would this situation have been different had I used the other lens(es)? I think the prime would have been ideal?

 

[handicap18]

I think the lens you were using was fine. If you were using a wider lens you wouldn't have gotten that great closeup portrait.

The aperture was fine as well. You can still stay in aperture priority, but pay attention to what your getting for a shutter speed. If your subject is something that is moving then you'll need at least 1/60th shutter. Faster is better in this situation.

In this case, changing the ISO to 400 and keeping your f/stop the same would have given you a 1/80th shutter speed. Your adjusting your ISO by 1 stop, so therefor something else has to adjust by 1 stop as well. In this case it would be the shutter speed. It still would give you the same exposure. The ISO is allowing more light to get in, therefor the shutter doesn't need to stay open as long. It also serves double duty in that since it is a faster shutter speed, you wont get the motion blur. If you went up to ISO800 (allowing in even more light) then the shutter speed can be even faster. In this case 1/160th.