Teachers are giving me a hard time pulling kids out of school

I've had 3 experiences at 3 different colleges, and 2 of the 3 didn't count attendance at all. It was the student's responsibility to find out what was missed and complete it on time, but no one was taking attendance and penalizing students for not having their butt in the seat.

I think the reasons American kids are often ill-prepared for college is that so many schools fail to challenge college-bound kids that the brightest kids don't develop any study or work habits to speak of. When they start college and find themselves having to study, it is an entirely new experience to which they have trouble adequately adjusting.
At my college it depended on the instructor. I had a few that were all about attendance but most were somewhere in the middle.

I personally prefer letting the college students call the shots on this. Learning to manage your time and get your assignments done on your own is also important IMO.
 
We took our two DS(10&8) out for the second week of school. We cleared it with the school prior to booking and then at the beginning of school, we talked to the teachers. One teacher, when we asked about what work to take with us. She gave us a couple of projects they would be working on and a book they would be reading and then said -- "I'd have him work a little on it before he leaves and then when he gets back. Let's get real -- he's not doing anything while you are gone and I wouldn't want him to. "

We got back and her turned in one project, had read the book and it took him a week to complete all the missed assignments.

As for the daily emails? Please. You're on vacation. Just make it up when they get home. It's more work for the teacher, you're probably not going to do it anyway (it's Disney! - my kids are asleep when we push them through the door of the hotel), and why would you want to try?
 
At my college it depended on the instructor. I had a few that were all about attendance but most were somewhere in the middle.

I personally prefer letting the college students call the shots on this. Learning to manage your time and get your assignments done on your own is also important IMO.

but I do think college students and H.S. students learn their study habits early in their education. One of the reasons we never took our kids out of school to go to disney, (and folks this is just my view & my view only) was because we always wanted to convey the message. School first, play time later. If you didn't go to school that day, you were not allowed to go outside to play. If you did not work hard at school, you were not allowed to go to the mall or play a sport. When my oldest got a part time job, we made sure he knew if his grades started dropping, bye bye part time job.

Sorry, I think I'm probably getting off topic
 
Well seems like the thread has runaway to discussing the issues with the education system. Some have suggested it's the school standards. Others appear to be suggesting it's a lack of parent standards. Mind you, every school district is different. However, here is what I've seen and heard so far.


  • People are more concerned with results
  • Programs like no kid left behind do not focus on the individual kids needs.
  • Classes are mixed with high end and low end students.
  • Girls are mixed with boys.
    • Studies have shown that special curriculum designed for just boys improves their performance.
  • You have the summer gap
    • A long period of time in the summer where students lose what they learn.
  • There is an increase in the need for special education
    • For ADD, speech and other issues.
  • Many parents do not take part in their child's education.
  • Those that try to participate struggle:
    • Many parents do not understand the new math being taught. As a result, they feel helpless to guide their children
    • Some school systems do not involve the parents.
  • School systems are running tight on budget
    • Classes are getting larger
    • Sports programs are being dropped
    • Extracurricular activities are being dropped
    • Teacher aids are being let go
    • Schools run out of money for supplies in the spring
  • When children have an IEP, school systems do not have project managers to manage the issue.
    • Either the teacher or the special ed teacher must manage the case.
    • With an already heavy workload, both teachers and special ed teacher cannot properly manage the full needs

Those are some of my thoughts.
 

Maybe you didn't read all my posts on the topic. I never said teachers got paid for the summer. I said they make good money for what they do. Do they deserve more, most likely. I was responding to a few who were complaining about long hours etc. My point is a lot of professions have long hours where you don't get compensated for hours worked over 40. I am sorry if I sickened or offended you. It was not my intent.

I did read your posts and the impression that I got from them was that you felt that teachers don't really work after the school day. I completely understand that many other professions do work over and above the 40 hours a week, but many people in the public (I'm not saying you in particular) don't realize that most teachers work after the school bell rings.

You didn't offend me at all. Being a teacher's daughter, I feel it is my duty sometimes to show that teachers do work more hours than the school day is long. :flower3:
 
My question is why do we expect teachers to be so accomodating in the first place?
A good question. Certainly a teacher "owes' his or her students a top-rate lesson each and every day. Absolutely the teacher should grade everything fairly and quickly. Unquestionably, it's the teacher's job to maintain a positive learning environment in the classroom and to provide discipline where needed. The list could go on and on.

But IS IT the teacher's job to accomodate individual families who've chosen to pull their kids out of school? IS the teacher responsible for doing additional work for an individual student, especially given that it's going to have to be done on his or her own time, not during the school day? It's a question without a well-defined answer.

Would you call the guy who built your house and ask him to build you an extra shelf -- for free?
Would you expect the sales clerk at the mall to help you carry your shopping bags out to the car for you -- for free?
Would you figure that since your accountant is doing your business taxes already, he should just throw in your personal taxes as a freebie?

Yet everyone expects teachers to do all sorts of things for their kids -- things that go above and beyond their jobs. ALL THE TIME parents call me up and tell me that their child is coming in for extra tutoring after school next Tuesday (just assuming that I'm free to help the child that day). ALL THE TIME parents expect me to be available for a conference at 5:30 or 6:00 in the evening (even though I arrive at work at 6:45, and my day officially ends at 2:30). ALL THE TIME parents call me up with the expectation that I'll lend personal books, help them solve this-or-that educational problem for their children who aren't in my class, etc. Seriously, in the years I've been teaching, the demands upon teachers have built up and built up, and they've reached the breaking point -- we're doing all we can. And teachers do these things because they care about the kids, but this make-up-work-so-the-kid-can-go-on-vacation is really becoming a problem in the school system. I teach almost 100 students at any given time. How many special requests -- not all vacations, but all time-consuming -- do you think I have in a year? I should start counting.
 
I've had 3 experiences at 3 different colleges, and 2 of the 3 didn't count attendance at all. It was the student's responsibility to find out what was missed and complete it on time, but no one was taking attendance and penalizing students for not having their butt in the seat.
This was the case when I was a college student too, but I understand this is changing. Do you know what a Senso is? It's essentially a remote control, which students in a large classroom setting use to interact with the professor during lectures. (Stick with me, I'm going somewhere here.)

The teacher can put multiple choice questions on the board, and the students "click in" their responses, giving the teacher an instant feel for how well the students are understanding the material. It's a way of keeping students engaged during a lecture. Kids LOVE them.

College professors are requiring students to buy these gadgets for their classes, and they're using them to take roll in large lecture classes. I heard that one university in our area is toying with requiring students to have an iPhone because it can be used to do similar things.

The bottom line is that college is changing rapidly because of technology, and attendance IS being measured to a greater extent than it was in the past.
I think the reasons American kids are often ill-prepared for college is that so many schools fail to challenge college-bound kids that the brightest kids don't develop any study or work habits to speak of. When they start college and find themselves having to study, it is an entirely new experience to which they have trouble adequately adjusting.
I think this is happening for multiple reasons:
Money has been easy to borrow in recent years, and people who otherwise might not've gone to college have decided to give it a shot -- whether they really belonged there or not.
Too many students don't spend enough time reading; instead, they're relying upon quick and easy technology -- and while that might get you by in high school, much of it looks like a flash in the pan in college. Too many of our students use technology only in a superficial way; they know how to "google" and they know how to use software, but their underlying knowledge is lacking . . . PLUS they don't have the good, old-fashioned skills that comes from lots of reading, figuring math with a pencil, etc.
We as Americans have developed the incorrect idea that "everyone" should go to college -- again, whether they belong there or not.
And, of course, there's a great deal of merit to your argument that the best and the brightest aren't being challenged enough. Somewhere along the way we've decided that no one should fail, and that's dumbed down a great deal of material.
 
/
This was the case when I was a college student too, but I understand this is changing. Do you know what a Senso is? It's essentially a remote control, which students in a large classroom setting use to interact with the professor during lectures. (Stick with me, I'm going somewhere here.)

The teacher can put multiple choice questions on the board, and the students "click in" their responses, giving the teacher an instant feel for how well the students are understanding the material. It's a way of keeping students engaged during a lecture. Kids LOVE them.

College professors are requiring students to buy these gadgets for their classes, and they're using them to take roll in large lecture classes. I heard that one university in our area is toying with requiring students to have an iPhone because it can be used to do similar things.

The bottom line is that college is changing rapidly because of technology, and attendance IS being measured to a greater extent than it was in the past.

That sounds pretty cool, actually! I am "between colleges" right now, but my school wasn't using anything like that 2 years ago when I finished my associates. It'll be interesting to see how much has changed when I go back to finish up (changing careers - I have no desire to do what I did before kids, so I'm starting over from scratch. Ironically teaching is one of the things I've considered, but scheduling would be a huge obstacle.)

I think this is happening for multiple reasons:
Money has been easy to borrow in recent years, and people who otherwise might not've gone to college have decided to give it a shot -- whether they really belonged there or not.
We as Americans have developed the incorrect idea that "everyone" should go to college -- again, whether they belong there or not.
And, of course, there's a great deal of merit to your argument that the best and the brightest aren't being challenged enough. Somewhere along the way we've decided that no one should fail, and that's dumbed down a great deal of material.

I think that is a very good point. It really bothers me to see; DH is in a profession that is learned almost exclusively by apprenticeship (he's a roofer & rough carpenter, and apprenticed with a plumber to add to the services his business can offer), but my state has established graduation standards that don't leave room for voc-ed programs. Just to get a diploma, you essentially have to complete a college-prep track. Some people really aren't suited for that path, and I think many would be better off in an educational setting that allows them to explore other options in addition to the 4 year degree path.
 
I have one problem with some of these arguments about vacations...mainly about yearly or sometimes twice a year trips.

Nobody needs to go to WDW every year. I understand the draw of it, believe me (19 trips in 20 years.....i really do understand). These people who are talking about family time adn WDW, get real. Family time does not have to be at WDW. Go away for the weekend somewhere closer to home. Have family game night, movie night. Go play mini golf, bowling, etc. WDW does not equal the only family time there is. If it does than there is something wrong right there and you have bigger issues to deal with than the teachers and taking your kids out of school for a week.

We did not go to WDW this year. Yes we did go to DL in june for 1 night and we are going again in oct. for 1 night but that's because we just moved to LA (it's like LA initiation to go a few weekends of the year) but thast not our only family time. My dad works insane hours. Leaves teh house at 6:15 AM and gets home around 7 PM eats dinner and goes to bed at 9. 5 days a week. He also travels 1 weeks out of every month. But you know what, our 2 trips to DL are not our only family time. We do simple things like go to the beach for a day, go into the city for the day and yes at 20 i still like spending time with my parents. My point is, quit the family time argument when it pertains to yearly WDW vacations.



When you have kids, you should understand that once they get to school there are rules to follow. If you choose not to follow them, your choice but face the consequences. Don't complain about the rules, son't complain that the teachers are not accomadating. Don't complain. You choose to have kids, you choose the jobs you have, you choose to go to WDW. It's choices and sometimes there are consequences.
 
That sounds pretty cool, actually! I am "between colleges" right now, but my school wasn't using anything like that 2 years ago when I finished my associates. It'll be interesting to see how much has changed when I go back to finish up (changing careers - I have no desire to do what I did before kids, so I'm starting over from scratch. Ironically teaching is one of the things I've considered, but scheduling would be a huge obstacle.)



I think that is a very good point. It really bothers me to see; DH is in a profession that is learned almost exclusively by apprenticeship (he's a roofer & rough carpenter, and apprenticed with a plumber to add to the services his business can offer), but my state has established graduation standards that don't leave room for voc-ed programs. Just to get a diploma, you essentially have to complete a college-prep track. Some people really aren't suited for that path, and I think many would be better off in an educational setting that allows them to explore other options in addition to the 4 year degree path.

I agree. The college track is not for everyone. We have a friend who is a pipefitter, and has been trying to let people know about the apprenticeship program and the fact that it is a field that can support a family.

Thinking of college requirements, the reason our school requires attendance is because life requires attendance. I can't go to work, master my subject, and leave. I have to put in time, and it is assumed that I will put that time to good use. KWIM?
 
I have one problem with some of these arguments about vacations...mainly about yearly or sometimes twice a year trips.

Nobody needs to go to WDW every year. I understand the draw of it, believe me (19 trips in 20 years.....i really do understand). These people who are talking about family time adn WDW, get real. Family time does not have to be at WDW. Go away for the weekend somewhere closer to home. Have family game night, movie night. Go play mini golf, bowling, etc. WDW does not equal the only family time there is. If it does than there is something wrong right there and you have bigger issues to deal with than the teachers and taking your kids out of school for a week.

Some of us aren't just talking about Disney travel, FTR. My kids have missed school for 2 Disney trips, in 2005 and 2008, and will miss again for Disney this year. They've also missed a week for Tulum in 2007, and a couple days for our last trip to Chicago in 2006. It is one trip a year, for the most part, but not always Disney. Disney just tends to be the focus of the conversation here because 1) that's the common thread that led us all here to begin with, and 2) schools tend to give parents a harder time about Disney travel than other destinations. We do all those other things too - weekends away when we can squeeze them in, movies, hanging out on our boat, etc. - but they're not a replacement for the shared experiences of traveling together as a family.
 
:thumbsup2
A good question. Certainly a teacher "owes' his or her students a top-rate lesson each and every day. Absolutely the teacher should grade everything fairly and quickly. Unquestionably, it's the teacher's job to maintain a positive learning environment in the classroom and to provide discipline where needed. The list could go on and on.

But IS IT the teacher's job to accomodate individual families who've chosen to pull their kids out of school? IS the teacher responsible for doing additional work for an individual student, especially given that it's going to have to be done on his or her own time, not during the school day? It's a question without a well-defined answer.

Would you call the guy who built your house and ask him to build you an extra shelf -- for free?
Would you expect the sales clerk at the mall to help you carry your shopping bags out to the car for you -- for free?
Would you figure that since your accountant is doing your business taxes already, he should just throw in your personal taxes as a freebie?

Yet everyone expects teachers to do all sorts of things for their kids -- things that go above and beyond their jobs. ALL THE TIME parents call me up and tell me that their child is coming in for extra tutoring after school next Tuesday (just assuming that I'm free to help the child that day). ALL THE TIME parents expect me to be available for a conference at 5:30 or 6:00 in the evening (even though I arrive at work at 6:45, and my day officially ends at 2:30). ALL THE TIME parents call me up with the expectation that I'll lend personal books, help them solve this-or-that educational problem for their children who aren't in my class, etc. Seriously, in the years I've been teaching, the demands upon teachers have built up and built up, and they've reached the breaking point -- we're doing all we can. And teachers do these things because they care about the kids, but this make-up-work-so-the-kid-can-go-on-vacation is really becoming a problem in the school system. I teach almost 100 students at any given time. How many special requests -- not all vacations, but all time-consuming -- do you think I have in a year? I should start counting.

LOL
:thumbsup2

What you should do is start charging. You want me to spend the extra time grading make up work so you can go on vacation. No problem, I'll bill you $45/hr for the extra work.
 
I have one problem with some of these arguments about vacations...mainly about yearly or sometimes twice a year trips.

Nobody needs to go to WDW every year. I understand the draw of it, believe me (19 trips in 20 years.....i really do understand). These people who are talking about family time adn WDW, get real. Family time does not have to be at WDW. Go away for the weekend somewhere closer to home. Have family game night, movie night. Go play mini golf, bowling, etc. WDW does not equal the only family time there is. If it does than there is something wrong right there and you have bigger issues to deal with than the teachers and taking your kids out of school for a week.

You are right, there are more things in life to do like the movie night, bowling ect. We do all of that stuff and go to WDW every year. I always tell people to spend as much time as they possible can with their children. That is one thing in life they won't ever regret. We are fortuate to have good teachers that work with us. When we go for a week we let them know way ahead of time. All we ask for is what chapters to read and that sort of stuff, and if there is anything already prepared that they can give us. If not my kids get it when they get back and we take a couple days to get it done. I don't expect a teacher to go out out of their way to provide us homework. Its a vacation so they don't have a lot of time to work on it until we get back anyway. My kids have always got their school work done and have received full credit for it. After missing a week for vacation they are still A and B students.

If they were doing poorly then I may think differently about it but then again there would be other issues than just missing a week.
 
:thumbsup2

LOL
:thumbsup2

What you should do is start charging. You want me to spend the extra time grading make up work so you can go on vacation. No problem, I'll bill you $45/hr for the extra work.
That's a great idea. Teachers in my county are only required by contract to work 8:00 - 4:00 daily. Anything after that should be billed to the student/parent :) We would be rolling in the money if that were the case.
 
Some of us aren't just talking about Disney travel, FTR. My kids have missed school for 2 Disney trips, in 2005 and 2008, and will miss again for Disney this year. They've also missed a week for Tulum in 2007, and a couple days for our last trip to Chicago in 2006. It is one trip a year, for the most part, but not always Disney. Disney just tends to be the focus of the conversation here because 1) that's the common thread that led us all here to begin with, and 2) schools tend to give parents a harder time about Disney travel than other destinations. We do all those other things too - weekends away when we can squeeze them in, movies, hanging out on our boat, etc. - but they're not a replacement for the shared experiences of traveling together as a family.
And that needs to be done during the school year? :confused3
 
And that needs to be done during the school year? :confused3

For us, unfortunately yes. My DH can't travel during the warmer months, and it isn't a family vacation without the whole family IMO. We can sometimes squeeze in short/impromptu trips here and there, like this weekend - DH will wrap up one job on Sat and can't start the next until Mon because the wholesaler he uses is closed Sundays, so we're leaving when he gets home on Sat for one night at a hotel with a pool and a day at the Renaissance Festival. But anything that requires advance planning has to happen over the winter when he's off.
 
I agree. The college track is not for everyone. We have a friend who is a pipefitter, and has been trying to let people know about the apprenticeship program and the fact that it is a field that can support a family.

Thinking of college requirements, the reason our school requires attendance is because life requires attendance. I can't go to work, master my subject, and leave. I have to put in time, and it is assumed that I will put that time to good use. KWIM?


College and K-12 are not the same thing, and until we have compulsory college graduation for all students, the attendance policies at colleges are irrelevant.

The argument for making school aged children do unpleasant things because it will acclimate them to doing unpleasant things as an aduld makes no sense to me. Should my 8 year old have to pay taxes and get a colonoscopy because she'll have to do that at some time down the road?
 
But anything that requires advance planning has to happen over the winter when he's off.

Don't your children have some time off of school in the winter? Ours are off for Columbus Day in Oct, Veterans Day and 3 days for Thanksgiving in Nov, winter break at Christmas, MLK Day in Jan, Washington's Birthday or Presidents Day in Feb as well as a few institutes days thrown in as well.
 
College and K-12 are not the same thing, and until we have compulsory college graduation for all students, the attendance policies at colleges are irrelevant.

The argument for making school aged children do unpleasant things because it will acclimate them to doing unpleasant things as an aduld makes no sense to me. Should my 8 year old have to pay taxes and get a colonoscopy because she'll have to do that at some time down the road?

I don't think sitting in a college course is an unpleasant thing. I think it is a privilege. I guess that is the difference between us. I don't see a career as unpleasant. I am fine working within the confines of mine. And, if a colonoscopy would be of benifit to a child then, yes, they should have one. If a child makes enough money there are taxes on that, too.
 
I just have a question.. who here is a teacher? and do you post during school time? Just wondering :)
 

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