Teachers are giving me a hard time pulling kids out of school

because they work much more than that when you count their hours. I'm not saying they deserve to get paid for time they weren't in school but what sickens me is the lack of respect or at least the acknowledgement that maybe their job is not a walk in the park.

I can't speak for most people, but I know teachers work hard. I respect every teacher my children have had so far including preschool up to 4th grade. I also make sure to tell them what a great job they are doing and to thank them in person, by e-mail, and by a card at christmas and end of the year. I also have spent many hours volunteering in their classrooms.

I still do not agree with zeros for a child on vacation. There should be some chance at making up the work. There are schools that are willing to work with families. Our school is one of them. I notice another PP from Michigan in a district with a similar policy. Maybe its the area we were raised in, but it works for us.
 
Yeah because those three months teachers take off are a real siesta especially taking into account that for three months they do not get PAID unless they want to take a cut in their nine month pay to even out budgeting. Have you ever tried to make ends meet with three months of pay docked from your wages? Or the fact that some of those beautiful pensions are actually cutting some money from their regular checks.

We're in the same boat, but without the security of that nine months' pay. DH's business is seasonal. He's off Dec, Jan, Feb, and often into March with maybe a few small one day jobs in that stretch. And we don't have the option of having someone else keep track of the money and ensure we get equal pay year round; we save like crazy during the summer to get through the winter, and with the economy like it is, fall has come to be a very anxious time as for the second year in a row our savings goal isn't met. And we don't get a pension; our only retirement will be dollars we put away ourselves, so lean years now when we can't afford to save as much will mean more lean years later.

Again, this is more complaining about things that the rest of the workforce deals with on a regular basis. How many teachers do you know who are dealing with annual double digit increases to their health care premiums? Or layoff days so that they're expected to get 5 days' work done in 4 days' time and with 4 days' pay? Or get a pink slip on Friday telling them they don't have a job Monday? It isn't a cakewalk - no job is - but teachers do have it pretty good in comparison to much of the rest of the workforce.
 
ATTENDANCE: ABSENCES/MAKE-UP WORK
When students are absent and parents write a valid excuse, teachers will provide
opportunities for students to complete missed assignments. Students are expected to
make up all work missed. In the case of unexcused absences, students may not receive full
credit for makeup work during the period of the unexcused absence. Make up work must
be completed within a time frame equal to the number of days absent. Please give
teachers 24 hours notice when calling in work requests.


this is our school's policy. I think for the most part, if the teacher is approached beforehand and with as much notice as possible, they will give the student an opportunity to do some sort of work. I know we read about ones who give students/parents a hard time here on message boards but I would bet for every one thread started there are many other instances of it being worked out just fine.
 
We're in the same boat, but without the security of that nine months' pay. DH's business is seasonal. He's off Dec, Jan, Feb, and often into March with maybe a few small one day jobs in that stretch. And we don't have the option of having someone else keep track of the money and ensure we get equal pay year round; we save like crazy during the summer to get through the winter, and with the economy like it is, fall has come to be a very anxious time as for the second year in a row our savings goal isn't met. And we don't get a pension; our only retirement will be dollars we put away ourselves, so lean years now when we can't afford to save as much will mean more lean years later.

Again, this is more complaining about things that the rest of the workforce deals with on a regular basis. How many teachers do you know who are dealing with annual double digit increases to their health care premiums? Or layoff days so that they're expected to get 5 days' work done in 4 days' time and with 4 days' pay? Or get a pink slip on Friday telling them they don't have a job Monday? It isn't a cakewalk - no job is - but teachers do have it pretty good in comparison to much of the rest of the workforce.[/QUOTE]

do you read the news? There are states laying off teachers, newer teachers are being let go and classes are being grouped together. The Schools are barely hanging on as it it. They have the same troubles a everyone else and even some of their pensions are being drawn away so those pensions you bring up are really starting to dwindle away. Maybe in the state that you are in, the school teachers have good pensions but every state is different in terms of their educational policy.
 

For those that think that children should be able to make up work that is missed while on vacation, do you think that the teacher should provide this work before the trip or after the student returns like they would for a child that was out sick?
 
For those that think that children should be able to make up work that is missed while on vacation, do you think that the teacher should provide this work before the trip or after the student returns like they would for a child that was out sick?

I really don't much care either way. We've has teachers give it before which is nice because the kids got a lot of it done at the airport and on the plane, we've had teachers give it after which is nice because then there's no worry about getting it done while we're away. I'm fine with whichever the teacher prefers to do.
 
I am having a difficult time trying to figure out how this thread is now a thread that debates teacher pay and benefits as compared with private sector pay and benefits. I realize that the discussion began with emailing daily work packets to accommodate a vacationing student and is now as one PP called it, a peeing contest. I am appalled that so many folks in this profession who so many of us entrust our children with are held in such low esteem.

I put three children through the public school system and have seen changes evolve as the years passed. Now my DGD is a student in public school. I am not automatically on any bandwagon but I can say that once I chose to participate in this system I knew that I was also agreeing to terms that I may not always agree with but was many times bound to. I always worked to change policies that I was opposed to and championed those that I felt worked. For better or worse children in public schools are held accountable to whatever policies are in place in that district. Private schools also have policies, take them or leave them as well, but once in you must accept consequences for your decisions if a decision you make is not within the guidelines in place. This is not a "teacher" issue, it is a school district issue.

This morning I watched a group of parents protest the decision of the school board when they elected to remove athletes from the roster after those athletes attended a party where alcohol was served. They insist their children were not drinking and that there is "no proof". Also not playing the season now makes it impossible for the scouts to see them.....no scholarship. Now when these kids joined the team they knew the policy, parents knew the policy but now they want it changed after the tens made the choice to stay at a party that included alcohol. Were they drinking? Who knows, that was not the policy. Do they get an exception because they are athletes and can continue to play now that the party is over? Would the same protest be valid if these kids were members of the chess club or kids whose school sponsored extra curricular activities were not as prominent as cheerleaders and football players?

Now the situation itself is not the same but the idea is. These parents feel that they are the parents, they should decide if the children are accountable to the policy. They are angry at the folks who followed the policy. Just like here, parents are angry at teachers who follow policy, administers who manage policy. But until policy is changed those are the rules. In this case, your kid choice to attend a party where there was alcohol. Go ahead and attend the party but know that if you are caught you are going to be bounced from the team. You may lose your scholarship. If the case of a vacation during school time, you know that there may be consequences as well. Go ahead and take the child out but know that until the rules change grades may be affected. In either case the responsibility lies with the family, not the teacher.
 
/
I am having a difficult time trying to figure out how this thread is now a thread that debates teacher pay and benefits as compared with private sector pay and benefits. I realize that the discussion began with emailing daily work packets to accommodate a vacationing student and is now as one PP called it, a peeing contest. I am appalled that so many folks in this profession who so many of us entrust our children with are held in such low esteem.

I put three children through the public school system and have seen changes evolve as the years passed. Now my DGD is a student in public school. I am not automatically on any bandwagon but I can say that once I chose to participate in this system I knew that I was also agreeing to terms that I may not always agree with but was many times bound to. I always worked to change policies that I was opposed to and championed those that I felt worked. For better or worse children in public schools are held accountable to whatever policies are in place in that district. Private schools also have policies, take them or leave them as well, but once in you must accept consequences for your decisions if a decision you make is not within the guidelines in place. This is not a "teacher" issue, it is a school district issue.

This morning I watched a group of parents protest the decision of the school board when they elected to remove athletes from the roster after those athletes attended a party where alcohol was served. They insist their children were not drinking and that there is "no proof". Also not playing the season now makes it impossible for the scouts to see them.....no scholarship. Now when these kids joined the team they knew the policy, parents knew the policy but now they want it changed after the tens made the choice to stay at a party that included alcohol. Were they drinking? Who knows, that was not the policy. Do they get an exception because they are athletes and can continue to play now that the party is over? Would the same protest be valid if these kids were members of the chess club or kids whose school sponsored extra curricular activities were not as prominent as cheerleaders and football players?

Now the situation itself is not the same but the idea is. These parents feel that they are the parents, they should decide if the children are accountable to the policy. They are angry at the folks who followed the policy. Just like here, parents are angry at teachers who follow policy, administers who manage policy. But until policy is changed those are the rules. In this case, your kid choice to attend a party where there was alcohol. Go ahead and attend the party but know that if you are caught you are going to be bounced from the team. You may lose your scholarship. If the case of a vacation during school time, you know that there may be consequences as well. Go ahead and take the child out but know that until the rules change grades may be affected. In either case the responsibility lies with the family, not the teacher.
excellent post
 
I really don't much care either way. We've has teachers give it before which is nice because the kids got a lot of it done at the airport and on the plane, we've had teachers give it after which is nice because then there's no worry about getting it done while we're away. I'm fine with whichever the teacher prefers to do.

The policy in our district is that a child has 2 days to turn in the work for each day of excused absence. So, if your child is out Thurs- Mon, Thursday's work has to be turned in on the Thursday after they return, Friday's is due that Friday and so on. In addition, the students are required to do their daily homework as well which can cause problems because that homework could be something building on the assignments that have yet to be completed because of the absence.

State law also requires school districts to report absences to the state after a certain number even if they are excused absences.

Here, funding is tied to attendance so it can be a big problem for some school. Our district started having the day before Thanksgiving as an institute day because so many parents were pulling their children out, that the district was loosing funding for that day.
 
For those that think that children should be able to make up work that is missed while on vacation, do you think that the teacher should provide this work before the trip or after the student returns like they would for a child that was out sick?

My question is why do we expect teachers to be so accomodating in the first place?
I can't imagine a college professor going out of his way to prepare his students notes early so they can go on vacation. :rotfl2: The ones I know who work at Penn state only give make up exams in extreme cases. You go on spring break and miss the work, you get a penalized at the least and may get a flat out zero.

Do we do it because we expect that of elementary and middle school teachers should do what we want?

What do you do if your teacher at any level says flat out no? Guess I'm on the teachers side. Why should she/he have to make extra work so your kid can go play? Yes I will help you out if a serious illness or death or family stress comes up but vacation. Nope sorry.
 
For those that think that children should be able to make up work that is missed while on vacation, do you think that the teacher should provide this work before the trip or after the student returns like they would for a child that was out sick?

Since we are allowed by our school to miss 5 days I think it would be great if we could get it after we came back this way there really isn't much work for the teacher to do but put one worksheet aside for my kids to do when they get back. Maybe let us know ahead of time what they'll go over so we can read the text books while on vacation? I'm thinking if we get home on a Thursday and they go to school on Friday they can get it all then and come home and do it on the weekend? maybe this isn't doable? what do you all think? this is a year from now so things could change. I really want to go for Halloween next year but if its that much trouble for the kids we'll just go in the spring when they get out in May.
 
For those that think that children should be able to make up work that is missed while on vacation, do you think that the teacher should provide this work before the trip or after the student returns like they would for a child that was out sick?

In our school district the teacher can choose. They usually do a combination by giving some of the work ahead, and the rest when we get back. Students are allowed 2 days for every 1 day missed to make up the work. So if the kids are out 5 days they receive 10 days to make up the work. In our district students who are sick don't always have to wait until they return to make up work. Teachers will send work home with siblings or neighbors if the parent requests it. I think this works out great for our students.
 
My question is why do we expect teachers to be so accomodating in the first place?
I can't imagine a college professor going out of his way to prepare his students notes early so they can go on vacation. :rotfl2: The ones I know who work at Penn state only give make up exams in extreme cases. You go on spring break and miss the work, you get a penalized at the least and may get a flat out zero.

Do we do it because we expect that of elementary and middle school teachers should do what we want?

What do you do if your teacher at any level says flat out no? Guess I'm on the teachers side. Why should she/he have to make extra work so your kid can go play? Yes I will help you out if a serious illness or death or family stress comes up but vacation. Nope sorry.
You know what. I never thought of that. I missed 2 exams in college. The first one, my car broke down and the second one, I had the flu.

I was not allowed to make up the first one and I received a zero. That was the policy. There were no test make-ups.

I called the professor when I had the flu and couuld barely speak. I was allowed to make up the second test but it was completely different and much harder. I also had to make it up on the Professor's schedule.
 
In my day, growing up, all you needed for an excused absence was a note from a parent.

In my view, that's how it STILL should be.
 
My question is why do we expect teachers to be so accomodating in the first place?
I can't imagine a college professor going out of his way to prepare his students notes early so they can go on vacation. :rotfl2: The ones I know who work at Penn state only give make up exams in extreme cases. You go on spring break and miss the work, you get a penalized at the least and may get a flat out zero.

Do we do it because we expect that of elementary and middle school teachers should do what we want?

What do you do if your teacher at any level says flat out no? Guess I'm on the teachers side. Why should she/he have to make extra work so your kid can go play? Yes I will help you out if a serious illness or death or family stress comes up but vacation. Nope sorry.

And college professors don't really care if you show up in most cases. Do the work, and you pass.
 
In my day, growing up, all you needed for an excused absence was a note from a parent.

In my view, that's how it STILL should be.

But for whatever reason that is not the way it is today in many school systems. That was how it was when my kids attended school. As parents we all must decide if we are comfortable with the standards and the rules in place in the schools our children attend and then decide if we want our kids to attend those schools, attend private schools or home school. Or we can challenge the rules and hope that if we make changes those changes benefit the majority of children in the school system. It is counterproductive to diminish the teaching profession in every thread where there are specific issues that have nothing to do with the teacher but with the policies in place in the district.
 
Since we are allowed by our school to miss 5 days I think it would be great if we could get it after we came back this way there really isn't much work for the teacher to do but put one worksheet aside for my kids to do when they get back. Maybe let us know ahead of time what they'll go over so we can read the text books while on vacation? I'm thinking if we get home on a Thursday and they go to school on Friday they can get it all then and come home and do it on the weekend? maybe this isn't doable? what do you all think? this is a year from now so things could change. I really want to go for Halloween next year but if its that much trouble for the kids we'll just go in the spring when they get out in May.

What will you do if your child is sick and ends up missing more than 5 days? Or is it that you are allowed to miss 5 days for each vacation that you want to take?

It's also important to remember that your child will be missing more than the worksheet. They will miss classroom discussions, instructions, reading...many of these will be impossible to make up.
 
In my day, growing up, all you needed for an excused absence was a note from a parent.

In my view, that's how it STILL should be.
and..
  • there were no metal detectors in school to prevent shootings
  • smoking was the norm and not proven deadly
  • people didn't wear helmets when riding bikes or motercycles
  • seat belts weren't required
  • a schoolyard fight didn't end up with both children arrested and charged with assault
  • you didn't get $2M for spilling hot coffee on yourself
  • being pantsed in school was something that kids did and the 1st graders didn't charged with sexual harassment

Things change with time. We need to accept that.
 
Again, this is more complaining about things that the rest of the workforce deals with on a regular basis. How many teachers do you know who are dealing with annual double digit increases to their health care premiums? Or layoff days so that they're expected to get 5 days' work done in 4 days' time and with 4 days' pay? Or get a pink slip on Friday telling them they don't have a job Monday? It isn't a cakewalk - no job is - but teachers do have it pretty good in comparison to much of the rest of the workforce.

Apparently you have not read the news. This is one of many articles I googled. Date: Sept 1, 2009:

http://townhall.com/news/us/2009/09/01/schools_look_to_teacher_furloughs_to_trim_budgets

High school librarian Melissa Payne is starting her new school year with $1,000 less in her paycheck and three days that she'll be forced to stay home from her job.

It's the same story across the country, where teachers _ once among the groups exempted from furlough days _ are being forced to take unpaid days off amid massive state budget cuts.

Georgia is the only state so far to impose statewide furloughs for educators this fiscal year, though others are considering it. But furloughs are happening in individual districts in states such as New Mexico, Florida and California, said Ed Muir, deputy director of research and information services for the American Federation of Teachers.

For teachers like Payne, furloughs hurt a salary that already stretches thin most months.

She took a pay cut to move to a new school district in metro Atlanta this year, shortly before her new employer announced that all educators would be furloughed for three days. Now with student loans from graduate school and a brand-new home mortgage, Payne is frustrated.

"I went with this job because, even though it was less money, I thought it would be a better opportunity. And now it's even less money," she said.

School districts are facing historic cuts amid the worst economic decline in decades. But even if a district manages to avoid layoffs, teachers still are having to take furloughs on days when they would typically be planning lessons, going to conferences and meeting with other educators.

It will only become more common as districts struggle to keep up with dwindling state funding and lagging property tax revenues, Muir predicted.

"I think we're looking at more trouble ahead, and unless we find new money, that's going to lead to both furloughs and layoffs," he said.

Georgia is already $900 million in the red this fiscal year, which began July 1. The furloughs for all state employees _ which includes teachers for the first time in more than 25 years _ will save about $135 million, the majority made up of teacher salaries for 128,000 educators.

In North Carolina, teachers and other state employees were docked 10 hours of pay in the spring, but they have until the end of this calendar year to take the furlough time, said Sheri Strickland, president of the North Carolina Association of Educators. The time off must be taken on planning days when children aren't in the classroom, but Strickland doubts that most teachers will even bother to go on leave, instead just absorbing the pay cut.

The furloughs for every North Carolina state employee saved $65 million last fiscal year, which ended June 30, just a fraction of the state's $3.2 billion shortfall. So far, no teacher furloughs are planned for this year.

By and large, it's up to the local school boards in each state whether to furlough teachers because educators are on contract with districts rather than with the state. And many are unionized, which means district administrators must head to the negotiating table with teachers' unions before furloughs can be enacted.

But in Georgia, the state simply withheld three days' worth of money for teacher salaries and benefits, forcing districts to turn to furloughs. Only four school districts in Georgia _ three of them large ones _ have managed to find other ways to make up the cuts.

The rest of the state's 180 school systems say they have no choice.

In years past, states have largely exempted teachers when it comes to layoffs, furloughs and other pay cuts, but the recession has gotten so bad that states can no longer ignore such a large sector of the taxpayer-funded work force.

Teacher organizations say the furlough days mean less time for educators to study the latest teaching strategies or take a college class to sharpen their skills in whatever subject they teach.

"We are no longer in days where you can plan one lesson and feel pretty confident it's going to suit everybody's needs," Strickland said. "Doing lesson plans in the afternoon or in the evening or during a 30-minute planning time just doesn't quite give you time you need to do that."

In Hillsborough County, Fla., the teachers' union and school district have hammered out an agreement to avoid furloughs for now. But if the economic picture worsens unpaid leave could become a reality, spokesman Stephen Hegarty said.

The district had asked for two furlough days for teachers and three for other school employees, he said.

California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has paved the way for up to five furlough days for school districts as part of the state's massive budget cuts approved this summer. It's up to districts to decide whether to use the unpaid leave.

Hit hardest by the nation's foundering economy, California this year has cut $18 billion in funding for its K-12 schools and community colleges starting in February to address an unprecedented $60 billion two-year budget deficit.

The state laid off 17,000 teachers in the spring after notifying nearly 30,000 that they could be cut. The state has more than 300,000 educators.

In Georgia, the governor has said furloughs throughout most of Georgia's 180 school districts are the best way to keep from laying off thousands of teachers and other educators.

For parents, furloughs are troubling because they mean less time for teachers to get ready for class and the ever-growing pressure of improving student performance on standardized tests. Still, Nancy Turner, of Lilburn, Ga., who has kids going into sixth and third grades, said furloughs are better than the alternative.

"I think it's better than having to lay off teachers and make classroom sizes bigger," Turner said.

___

Associated Press writer Gary Robertson in Raleigh, N.C., contributed to this report.
 

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