Steubenville OH case, anyone hear of this?

[PizzieDuster]

See, you get it! Thats a good point. Walking thru the projects alone at 2am doesnt mean I deserve to get raped. But wouldnt it be stupid to do such a thing? I am cautious so I wont walk thru there alone.

goofyintoronto...your dining review is off the charts! Pooh Puffed French Toast? I'm obsessing now thank you very much!

On topic and not to any one specific person...

If you google, and do lots of searching, there is so much information about this CRIME, the victim, defendants, and the people who continued to victimized the victim after the verdict via twitter. One of the defendant's sister was one. There is also a dis member here who has a blog (she mentioned her blog on another thread here about this same subject), as the same happened to her daughter, a victim of sexual assault. A victim. Who's going to tell her over on the other thread that her daughter made a poor decision. Read her blog, listen to her pain..we should be greatful we aren't writing a blog about the same topic. The blame should not be on the victim, if it were your daughter...would you blame her? Even if she was walking through the "projects"? I doubt I'd hear any parent say that on CNN.

 

[Social Worker Sue]

What normal male would find an intoxicated female a sexual opportunity?

Ahhhh. But there lies the problem. The animals that rape are not normal. They do not think like other people. So, they may see a drunk girl, with a shirt that says *Bleep* Me, Im Irish and think That girl wants me to do what her shirt says.

So, as much as we want to teach our girls they can show their breasts or butt and it should not matter. It does matter. Normal people know it is not ok to rape a girl who is beyond drunk and wearing a skirt that shows her black lace panties, but a rapist is not getting that message.

Now, lets add teenagers drinking themselves into oblivion. It is not a good recipe. Can we agree it is ok to teach our girls they must protect themselves and not drink a half bottle of vodka? Is it ok (albeit not politically correct) to teach our girls that there are boys out there ready to pounce and, until that changes, we have to protect ourselves? Why is it controversial to say that?

It is never the victim's fault. Never, ever, ever. But, sadly we have to be vigilant. That is just the world we live in. I hope it changes one day, but until it does, lets teach our girls that there are sub-humans out there and what they can do to cut their chances of encountering them.

 

[PizzieDuster]

Ahhhh. But there lies the problem. The animals that rape are not normal. They do not think like other people. So, they may see a drunk girl, with a shirt that says *Bleep* Me, Im Irish and think That girl wants me to do what her shirt says.

So, as much as we want to teach our girls they can show their breasts or butt and it should not matter. It does matter. Normal people know it is not ok to rape a girl who is beyond drunk and wearing a skirt that shows her black lace panties, but a rapist is not getting that message.

Now, lets add teenagers drinking themselves into oblivion. It is not a good recipe. Can we agree it is ok to teach our girls they must protect themselves and not drink a half bottle of vodka? Is it ok (albeit not politically correct) to teach our girls that there are boys out there ready to pounce and, until that changes, we have to protect ourselves? Why is it controversial to say that?

It is never the victim's fault. Never, ever, ever. But, sadly we have to be vigilant. That is just the world we live in. I hope it changes one day, but until it does, lets teach our girls that there are sub-humans out there and what they can do to cut their chances of encountering them.

Absolutely agree 100% great post...should be the last...

 

[chobie]

Absolutely agree 100% great post...should be the last...

This whole subtopic of girls drinking came from one poster saying the girl shares some of the responsibility for being drunk and another poster agreeing with that. Therein lies the rub.

The subtopic should be why some people still have the mindset that a rape victim can have any blame. Maybe if that attitude didn't exist then this crime wouldn't have happened in the first place. Maybe those defendants, knowing that society still will blame the victim for allowing herself to become intoxicated, figured it wasn't really a crime because she should have known better.

Maybe if our society did not still want to put some blame on the victim other people at the party would have stopped it, or at least came forward after the fact to give statements to the police. Why they did not is because they can all feel justified by the knowledge that society stills apportions blame to the victim in rape cases.

I took a criminal law class about 7 years ago, where several of the young males expressed the view that if a women goes out with you and lets you buy her drinks, then she has given her consent to sex.

And let's all be intellectually honest here and admit if this was any other crime beside a male on female rape, what the victim did or didn't do would not be a subtopic.

One can say over and over that rape victim is never to blame, however, when that thought is followed by a "but, girls should be told not to get drunk," then we are, on some level, blaming the victim,

 

[AC7179]

I think we all have the same basic idea---not the girl's fault---not ever, but be safe. Even those accused of blaming the victim are saying that wasn't their intent.

I was looking though my bank account at the debit card my 19 year old daughter uses. There was a debit from a (delicious!) taco truck that is located downtown in a bad area. Taco truck---not even a restaurant, just a truck with picnic tables outside. I asked her when she's been there and she told me she and her friend took a study break at MIDNIGHT one night for tacos! Omg.....I had a fit. No, she didn't deserve to be mugged, robbed or the victim of any crime, but that was scary ! Two young girls, sitting outside in a neighborhood that has crime, at midnight! She's just young and never thought twice about it.

Just wanted to point out a nonsexual assault type of situation and say that I still preach safety there too! (I also tell her not to display a wad of cash, leave valuables in view in her car, etc,)

 

[goofyintoronto]

goofyintoronto...your dining review is off the charts! Pooh Puffed French Toast? I'm obsessing now thank you very much!

On topic and not to any one specific person...

If you google, and do lots of searching, there is so much information about this CRIME, the victim, defendants, and the people who continued to victimized the victim after the verdict via twitter. One of the defendant's sister was one. There is also a dis member here who has a blog (she mentioned her blog on another thread here about this same subject), as the same happened to her daughter, a victim of sexual assault. A victim. Who's going to tell her over on the other thread that her daughter made a poor decision. Read her blog, listen to her pain..we should be greatful we aren't writing a blog about the same topic. The blame should not be on the victim, if it were your daughter...would you blame her? Even if she was walking through the "projects"? I doubt I'd hear any parent say that on CNN.

Thats fair. I get it. The last thing a victim needs to hear someone say is that she's to blame. As i've said before, its a tragic thing for anyone to have to go thru.

One thing I dont understand is the two teen girls who made death threats against that girl. Like, really? Have they learned nothing from the arrests of the two boys? Now they'll have a record. I'd like to see what happens when they dig further and start laying charges on the school system and parents who tried to cover it up. I read about it a few days ago.


PS: Pooh's puffed french toast is amazing, but the breakfast lasagna is even better! its a hidden gem! I could eat the whole tray. You gotta try it, if you havent yet.

 

[Social Worker Sue]

One can say over and over that rape victim is never to blame, however, when that thought is followed by a "but, girls should be told not to get drunk," then we are, on some level, blaming the victim,

I am so confident that I am not blaming the victim, that I won't go round and round with you on this one

But, I will say, what has happened to our country that it has become politically incorrect to even dare suggest that we teach our girls to keep safe by not drinking to the point where they pass out?

 

[goofyintoronto]

But, I will say, what has happened to our country that it has become politically incorrect to even dare suggest that we teach our girls to keep safe by not drinking to the point where they pass out?

Thats what my parents drilled into my head when i was tween, over and over and over again. Is that wrong? Definitely not. If i had a daughter, i'd be teaching her the same thing.

 

[kellyg403]

I am so confident that I am not blaming the victim, that I won't go round and round with you on this one

But, I will say, what has happened to our country that it has become politically incorrect to even dare suggest that we teach our girls to keep safe by not drinking to the point where they pass out?

Sue, I agree with you. When my dds went to college, one of the first conversations we had was about being safe and not drinking anything they themselves did not pour. Even though they were underage, I was pretty sure that didn't mean squat in college. There would always be someone who could purchase for the party. These are the times when I have to remind them we come from a small town with people they have known all their lives, we felt safe. This case reminds us that isn't true either.

I want to see the parents involved in the alcohol purchase and the ones hosting the parties to be charged too. Anyone involved in the cover up of the activities should be charged as well. In all honesty the whole thing reminds me of the Penn State scandal to a certain degree.

I am glad I don't live there. Any parent in their right mind would be second guessing where their kids are and who they are hanging around with at 16 and 17 years old. Drinking and maturity don't often go hand in hand at this age.

Kelly

 

[RadioNate]

This is rape culture. We have got to stop perpetuating it. Girls shouldn't have to "protect themselves" the burden shouldn't be placed on the victim. Teach boys & men not to rape. To respect females.

A good read. Some NSFW language.

http://hellogiggles.com/this-is-rape-culture

 

[AC7179]

Of course. Of course! Teach the boys not to rape! But also, let's teach our girls to behave in a way that is less risky for them. If a girl was at a college party, and passed out drunk, and someone stole

 

[chobie]

I am so confident that I am not blaming the victim, that I won't go round and round with you on this one

But, I will say, what has happened to our country that it has become politically incorrect to even dare suggest that we teach our girls to keep safe by not drinking to the point where they pass out?

I'm not saying we should not tell our young not to pass out drunk( and that message goes to boys too), I'm saying that the mere fact that we are having this conversation in the context of girls behavior when a girls is the victim of rape is indicative of the fact our society still puts some blame on female victims of rape.


And I'm not afraid if being called PC when it comes to the subject of a girls responsibility to prevent herself from being raped.

 

[AC7179]

Sorry. If a college girl was at a party, passed out drunk, and someone stole all her money in her wallet, would we say we shouldn't teach her not to pass out drunk we should only teach the boys not to steal? We should do both! Of course those involving committing a crime are guilty. Those who are victims are victims. Always. But, if we can make ourselves safer, we should.

 

[chobie]

Sorry. If a college girl was at a party, passed out drunk, and someone stole all her money in her wallet, would we say we shouldn't teach her not to pass out drunk we should only teach the boys not to steal? We should do both! Of course those involving committing a crime are guilty. Those who are victims are victims. Always. But, if we can make ourselves safer, we should.

I don't believe it would be a topic of conversation. I think anytime there is a rape, the female victim's behavior comes under scrutiny and that is not the same for any other crime .

 

[AC7179]

Oh! I get what you are saying! You are not saying that a girl should not protect yourself, you are saying that in instances overate every action of the girl is scrutinized, to try to take some of the responsibility off the boy! In that case, I understand what you're saying and I agree!

 

[TinkerBelled]

Oh! I get what you are saying! You are not saying that a girl should not protect yourself, you are saying that in instances overate every action of the girl is scrutinized, to try to take some of the responsibility off the boy! In that case, I understand what you're saying and I agree!

Yes. It's not even that we don't castigate other victims of crime for making themselves vulnerable--it's that we don't castigate their character. There's no other crime where the character of the victim is so often criticized and scrutinized. And by focusing on whether or not the victim was 'asking for it' or 'could have done more to protect herself', we're taking the responsibility for the action off the rapist and on the victim.

 

[chobie]

Oh! I get what you are saying! You are not saying that a girl should not protect yourself, you are saying that in instances overate every action of the girl is scrutinized, to try to take some of the responsibility off the boy! In that case, I understand what you're saying and I agree!

Yes, that's what I was saying. It should be a given that all teenagers (male and female) be taught of all the dangers in drinking to excess.

But we should also be pondering why when a crime likes this takes place, we are supposed to address the topic of girl's behavior. The bigger issue is that there is still an undercurrent of a female victim of rape should have prevented somehow.

 

[RadioNate]

Of course. Of course! Teach the boys not to rape! But also, let's teach our girls to behave in a way that is less risky for them. If a girl was at a college party, and passed out drunk, and someone stole

We'd say "that thief!" Jerk should know better than to steal. Criminals! How dare they rob you.

In court the victims state wouldn't get a passing mention.

But rape it's "you should have protected yourself better."

 

[RadioNate]

I don't believe it would be a topic of conversation. I think anytime there is a rape, the female victim's behavior comes under scrutiny and that is not the same for any other crime .

100% agree.

In rape, the victims actions are scrutinized like no other crime. I've been mugged, I wasn't asked what I was wearing or if I had been drinking yet those are questions that rape victims are asked.

 

[skater]

We'd say "that thief!" Jerk should know better than to steal. Criminals! How dare they rob you.

In court the victims state wouldn't get a passing mention.

But rape it's "you should have protected yourself better."

I agree. While I do teach my daughter to be careful and avoid "stupid" situations, I agree that there is still too much "blaming the victim" occurring in rape cases. And if one of my sons committed rape, I would not be looking for reasons why his victim was partially to blame.