Steubenville OH case, anyone hear of this?

[mfd25wife]

I don't see how anyone can put any blame on the girl or any rape victim.

For the drinking, no she shouldn't have. However, I've known adults who did not know their limit. How would anyone expect a teenager. Regardless, I don't care if she took valium and chased it with tequila, it does not matter. No one has the right to touch her, tape her, photograph her, etc. Besides, I am probably not alone when i say that years ago, there was at least once where I went from "I'm enjoying a nice drink" to "Oh, crap! I don't think I should stand up".

For the comments on clothing, that is so very subjective. If you base it off that, we shouldn't be shocked if there were serial rapes on beaches. Some underwear covers more than some bikinis. Those women and girls are not asking for nutjobs to jump out and rape/assault them. I know people who seriously think showing even upper arms is suggestive. Really. There are topless and nude beaches. No one thinks all the rapists should go there because the men and women bear some responsibility. What about the loons who are attracted to women in jeans, long demin skirts, etc.? Who decides what is suggestive and adds responsibility to the victim?

As for walking at night, I was once on a business trip in CT. The company put us up in Rye or Rye Town, NY. I honestly don't remember the name, but it was small. I do vividly remember that we went into NYC on the train. The hotel was to provide a car service waiting when the last train returned. We got off the train and nothing. No car. We were three women from the south who barely knew each other and stranded in a strange town in the middle of the night. We found a pay phone and waited for them to wake up a driver to go get us. Should we have been made to feel bad because it was after midnight and we were "on the streets" and therefore dangerous?

 

[Cinderelly5507]

NotUrsula, we were posting at the same time, but I see we're essentially saying the same thing.

Cinderelly, there's a big difference between the victim taking her own drugs and the victim being drugged by someone else. Either could be possible, but given (if it's true) that there was a "plot" against her already, the latter seems more likely. I know she was known to be a drinker, but I don't know if she was known to take drugs as well.

At any rate, I thought I'd throw what I'm about to say in here, just cause I thought it was interesting.

Speaking to my 87 yr mother about the case, she assumed the girl was raped in the "usual sense" (for lack of a better term). When I explained she was raped digitally (and I believe orally as well), she had no idea what I was talking about, and when I explained, she was confused about whether that was rape. I had to explain.

Talking to a 15 yr old friend of my son's about it (it came up), upon hearing "digital rape" (and his knowing about the case), he asked if a camera (ie digital) was put in her [female parts].

Clearly we are not all on the same page about the definitions and terms of sex and rape, etc.

I also think some of this overlaps what we were talking about on the purity ring thread - that some forms of sex that are common among teens today (that help prevent pregnancy and maintain "virginity", ie oral and touching) are not thought of as sex by some of them.

I will say that, talking to my DS15 about a different rape case a couple of weeks ago, I was impressed he was able to define rape for me exactly, and the different types of rape - he'd learned it in Health class. I was glad they're discussing it in school, but I think we have to continue the discussions at home.

No, no... I was agreeing with you. Sorry! I meant that they could've slipped her something easily accessible these days (like percocets that many grandparents and parents have Rx for). It's not like these kids had to go to a shady part of a huge city to get something to use against her. The town also seems to have a large drug problem, but that's another story....

 

[Pea-n-Me]

No, no... I was agreeing with you. Sorry! I meant that they could've slipped her something easily accessible these days (like percocets that many grandparents and parents have Rx for). It's not like these kids had to go to a shady part of a huge city to get something to use against her. The town also seems to have a large drug problem, but that's another story....

Oh, sorry, I thought you meant she took it. Though I think a percocet would be pretty hard not to see in a drink, since it's big. I don't know how big some of the drugs are that are around now like Ectasy are but I imagine they're pretty small.

I once had someone slip something into my beer, but thankfully it tasted funny so I looked in and saw it.

 

[OceanAnnie]

There is another case breaking, very similar to this one only the girl is 13 (!). Happened in Connecticut.

I can't link right now, it's on dailymail.

 

[Cinderelly5507]

Oh, sorry, I thought you meant she took it. Though I think a percocet would be pretty hard not to see in a drink, since it's big. I don't know how big some of the drugs are that are around now like Ectasy are but I imagine they're pretty small.

I once had someone slip something into my beer, but thankfully it tasted funny so I looked in and saw it.

I think they probably would've crushed it before putting it in her drink. Who knows what really happened except a lot of people witnessed and did a lot of things that are unimaginable!

 

[Cinderelly5507]

Upcoming story on the case this Friday with Elizabeth Vargas on 20/20. She interviewed one of the defendants before the trial.

http://abcnews.go.com/m/video?id=18759726&ref=http://t.co/QAZhGextoX

 

[OceanAnnie]

Here is a link to the case I mentioned earlier:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...calling-victim-snitch-*****-social-media.html

Two high school football stars, 18, charged with sexually assaulting girl, 13, who classmates are now calling a 'snitch' and a '*****' on social media

 

[Arsenal1982]

Maybe, they were walking through there at 2 am because they live there?

Maybe, maybe not. That's why the question gets asked.

 

[chobie]

Maybe, maybe not. That's why the question gets asked.

It's not about that and you know it. The questioning of a female rape victim's behavior comes from eons of blaming women for rape. There is no other crime where people are quick to question the behavior of the victim.

 

[Arsenal1982]

It's not about that and you know it. The questioning of a female rape victim's behavior comes from eons of blaming women for rape. There is no other crime where people are quick to question the behavior of the victim.

It has already been stated multiple times by multiple posters that nobody is blaming the victim. However, to go to a party and get so drunk that you pass out, is incredibly stupid behavior. If you can't acknowledge that, then there is no need to discuss further. I can show someone the logic behind adding 1 + 1, but I can't make them agree it is 2.

 

[chobie]

It has already been stated multiple times by multiple posters that nobody is blaming the victim. However, to go to a party and get so drunk that you pass out, is incredibly stupid behavior. If you can't acknowledge that, then feel free to remain ignorant.

You should acknowledge that scrutinizing a female rape victim's behavior is coming from a culture of blaming women for rape. Even the people who say they are not blaming the victim (and one actually is blaming her), "but she shouldn't have," are feeding into the blame the victim mentality even though that is not their intention.

We don't know if she was drugged or had her drinks spiked with more alcohol then she meant to drink.

We do know she was raped. Heinous, criminal, behavior and that should be what we are focused on.

No one should ever drink to a point of passing out, which I also have repeated several times. However discussing the stupidity of a rape victim is vile.

 

[Arsenal1982]

You should acknowledge that scrutinizing a female rape victim's behavior is coming from a culture of blaming women for rape. Even the people who say they are not blaming the victim (and one actually is blaming her), "but she shouldn't have," are feeding into the blame the victim mentality even though that is not their intention.

We don't know if she was drugged or had her drinks spiked with more alcohol then she meant to drink.

We do know she was raped. Heinous, criminal, behavior and that should be what we are focused on.

Even if she was drugged, that is still stupid behavior. You don't leave open drinks unattended. Again, not blaming her, but her behavior was stupid. It would be nice if we lived in a crime free society, but we don't. Therefore, be on your A game, behave smart and safe, and your odds of getting through life unhurt will be a lot higher.

 

[RadioNate]

There is such a thing as behaving intelligently so as not to put oneself in the line of fire, so to speak. There are many other crimes where I would be asking why did the victim do this or that. An example: If a young man or woman were to get shot walking through the projects at 2am, my question would be: why are they walking alone at 2am in a dangerous area? Nobody is blaming them. We're asking why did they choose to do this dangerous act.

But what you are missing is that victims of crimes aren't asked. I was mugged near the Sears Tower. No one asked why I was out walking there. Not exactly a dangerous area but I was alone, at night.

Did the news media or anyone blame Hadiya Pendleton for being in the park, say she shouldn't have been there because it was an area known for occasional gang activity. That if they were 'good kids' they shouldn't have tried to get out of the rain? That traveling in groups was dangerous? That she shouldn't have walked home that day? That neighborhood isn't exactly the best.

So for rape victims why do we question their every move as if they are somehow responsible?

 

[chobie]

Even if she was drugged, that is still stupid behavior. You don't leave open drinks unattended. Again, not blaming her, but her behavior was stupid. It would be nice if we lived in a crime free society, but we don't. Therefore, be on your A game, behave smart and safe, and your odds of getting through life unhurt will be a lot higher.

Why do you feel the need to call a rape victim stupid? A crime has been committed and as a society we should be talking about how best to punish the offenders to send a message to all would be rapists, e.g,, there's no excuse for rape, you will be punished.

Every single one of your posts on this thread are about the stupidity of the victim.

 

[Arsenal1982]

So for rape victims why do we question their every move as if they are somehow responsible?

I always ask, but for why others are asking in this particular case, the picture of the poor girl being dragged around makes it easy. Who would put themselves in that position? Why? Why take the chance?

 

[RadioNate]

I always ask, but for why others are asking in this particular case, the picture of the poor girl being dragged around makes it easy. Who would put themselves in that position? Why? Why take the chance?

Because it shouldn't be "taking a chance" that is the rape culture that is learned behavior in this country that needs to stop. The average male should know that if I woman is passed out drunk not to rape her. They should not feel entitled to sex based on how a women is dressed or how much she drank.

They thought what they did was funny.

The rape culture happening right now is learned. These kids aren't sociopaths and deviants who can't help themselves. They are the STUPID, entitled, jerks who think they can do whatever they want. That is learned behavior that can be changed. We need to work on changing the rape culture in America instead of calling victims stupid.

 

[chobie]

Because it shouldn't be "taking a chance" that is the rape culture that is learned behavior in this country that needs to stop. The average male should know that if I woman is passed out drunk not to rape her. They should not feel entitled to sex based on how a women is dressed or how much she drank.

They thought what they did was funny.

The rape culture happening right now is learned. These kids aren't sociopaths and deviants who can't help themselves. They are the STUPID, entitled, jerks who think they can do whatever they want. That is learned behavior that can be changed. We need to work on changing the rape culture in America instead of calling victims stupid.

Exactly and the more we harp on the victims stupidity and what we need to teach our girls about how not to get raped, the more we allow this rape culture to go on. It's disgusting.

 

[lovemygoofy]

I always ask, but for why others are asking in this particular case, the picture of the poor girl being dragged around makes it easy. Who would put themselves in that position? Why? Why take the chance?

I do not believe in questioning rape victims. They are the ones that have been violated.

However, I will tell you from someone that has been there and did that and set that shirt on fire. You do stupid STUPID things with people you trust. She was not drunk with people she did not know. She was drunk AND DRUGGED, lets not forget she was drugged, among people she probably had known her entire life.

I lived in a teeny tiny town where it was the cultural for the kids to run around and have parties and be drunk. It was the whole "kids will be kids" thing. As far as I know this kind of stuff never happened but falling down face first drunk happened probably almost every weekend. I'm a mother hen so I was going around cleaning up and making sure all were safe. But when with your peers, you think you are in a safe circle.

I was date raped by a man I had been dating for 3 weeks. I had trust in him. Apparently I shouldn't have fallen asleep at his place. It was my fault right, for placing trust in someone and that blowing up in my face.

A while up, I spoke of a fellow army wife that killed herself lastyear. She was young and married. She was drunk and passed out and her husband, HER HUSBAND, passed her on to another guy and the husband also taped the whole thing. HER HUSBAND, the man she loved and trusted, shared her like a lunchtime cookie.

Do you understand that this kind of rape isn't random? Date rape is very very common in this country and probably has happened to several people you know. The whole common thread is trust and knowing the violator. So bottom line is no, you don't get to question the rape victim. You question why the guy is such trash.

 

[beavismom]

It is no wonder, with the questioning and blaming of victims, that so many rapes go unreported. Also, just because the boys were only charged with digitally raping this girl doesn't mean that was all that was done. It was just all they could prove.

 

[gottaluvPluto]

I do not believe in questioning rape victims. They are the ones that have been violated.

However, I will tell you from someone that has been there and did that and set that shirt on fire. You do stupid STUPID things with people you trust. She was not drunk with people she did not know. She was drunk AND DRUGGED, lets not forget she was drugged, among people she probably had known her entire life.

I lived in a teeny tiny town where it was the cultural for the kids to run around and have parties and be drunk. It was the whole "kids will be kids" thing. As far as I know this kind of stuff never happened but falling down face first drunk happened probably almost every weekend. I'm a mother hen so I was going around cleaning up and making sure all were safe. But when with your peers, you think you are in a safe circle.

I was date raped by a man I had been dating for 3 weeks. I had trust in him. Apparently I shouldn't have fallen asleep at his place. It was my fault right, for placing trust in someone and that blowing up in my face.

A while up, I spoke of a fellow army wife that killed herself lastyear. She was young and married. She was drunk and passed out and her husband, HER HUSBAND, passed her on to another guy and the husband also taped the whole thing. HER HUSBAND, the man she loved and trusted, shared her like a lunchtime cookie.

Do you understand that this kind of rape isn't random? Date rape is very very common in this country and probably has happened to several people you know. The whole common thread is trust and knowing the violator. So bottom line is no, you don't get to question the rape victim. You question why the guy is such trash.

Great post! It doesn't matter that this girl did a stupid thing. What matters is that she was raped and it was not because she did a stupid act.