Should Students be required to perform "Community Service"?

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Being a janitor is humiliating? What gives you the right to look down your nose at janitors?

You are out of your mind if you feel that a student who lacks the ability to perform other community service would not be humiliated to litter control on a high school campus.

Not turning down my nose at janitors--just that students would not be uplifted to be stuck with that duty.

 

[Imagineer7]

You are out of your mind if you feel that a student who lacks the ability to perform other community service would not be humiliated to litter control on a high school campus.

Not turning down my nose at janitors--just that students would not be uplifted to be stuck with that duty.

I don't see anything humiliating about it. Only snowflake children would have a problem with it.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Proper sentence structure is required in order to express thoughts.

There is a right way when it is backed up by the law. If a school wanted to impose a volunteering requirement in order to graduate, they would be able to do. And there isn't anything you could do about it, except transport your children wherever it is they need to go.

At one time--schools were segregated and that was backed by law.

Just because you feel something is backed up by law--does not make it right.

What about those with hardships who are entitled to their education?

Many things in our history was "backed by law" until it was declared unconstitutional.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I don't see anything humiliating about it. Only snowflake children would have a problem with it.

Then I can't help you since you address everything in such a nasty way.

 

[Imagineer7]

At one time--schools were segregated and that was backed by law.

Just because you feel something is backed up by law--does not make it right.

What about those with hardships who are entitled to their education?

Many things in our history was "backed by law" until it was declared unconstitutional.

The burden would be on those who think its wrong to get it declared unconstitutional. As things stand right now, it isn't and considering the structure of the current Supreme Court, you would have one heck of an uphill battle trying to convince Roberts and Scalia that volunteering can't be required..

 

[bicker]

Though all I recall of civics was state and local govt issues and voting and the civic duties that pertain to that. Nothing about volunteerism.

I looked over some Civics course curricula. Generally, they include material on "the citizen's role (right and responsibilities)". Here's another good quote: "recognize and understand what it means to function as a responsible citizen in the global society". Another good quote: "Students will discuss ways that they think they can be involved as citizens of the community."

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

It isn't though - that's the point. The earlier message asserted a problem stemming from forcing students to do specific work. Building a diorama is such work.

And, it isn't different. It is the same thing.

Parent and families should be instilling family responsibility, and teaching children spiritual values. That's not what we're talking about, here. We're talking, specifically, about social responsibility - literally "responsibility to society". Surely society should be teaching that.

I picked up at this point of the discussion with the above quote wehre you did not mention a civics class....

With an option to satisfy the requirement by taking a Civics class instead. If that wasn't what you were talking about, then you weren't replying to my messages, because I've been saying the same exact things since the beginning of this thread.

How is it a choice is a student is Jewish and cannot participate in marching bad at the Friday night football games?

I see what you're presenting as excuses, not significant objections. Students having a choice to take a Civics class instead obviate all your concerns, as far as I'm concerned.

The objections were raised to forced service. I misunderstood the context of your posts as I did not recall the mention earlier if I had come across it or not.

Taking a civics class would be an appropriate alternative.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

The burden would be on those who think its wrong to get it declared unconstitutional. As things stand right now, it isn't and considering the structure of the current Supreme Court, you would have one heck of an uphill battle trying to convince Roberts and Scalia that volunteering can't be required..

Feeding kids 3 meals a day at school because they show up starving as their parents cannot afford to feed them properly...

Yeah, it would be tough to prove the burden to force all students to comply.

 

[bicker]

I picked up at this point of the discussion with the above quote wehre you did not mention a civics class....

It is understandable that you weren't aware of what I was advocating for, if you picked up the discussion at that point. No harm; no foul.

The objections were raised to forced service. I misunderstood the context of your posts as I did not recall the mention earlier if I had come across it or not. Taking a civics class would be an appropriate alternative.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Bicker: I am sorry for missing that you were discussing 2 separate solutions. I had read your posts that kids could choose between volunteer project A and volunteer project B and not between volunteer projects OR a class alternative.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

It is understandable that you weren't aware of what I was advocating for, if you picked up the discussion at that point. No harm; no foul.

Well, I was participating earlier and either forgot you mentioned or stepped out before you mentioned it. So either I forgot--or missed it.

 

[Imagineer7]

Feeding kids 3 meals a day at school because they show up starving as their parents cannot afford to feed them properly...

Yeah, it would be tough to prove the burden to force all students to comply.

Perhaps you misunderstood me. The burden would be on you to prove that it's an undue hardship to make all students volunteer. As it stands right now, schools are within their rights to impose mandatory volunteering requirements. If you refuse to accept the law as law, then so be it. As they say, "I can lead a horse to water but I can't make them drink."

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Perhaps you misunderstood me. The burden would be on you to prove that it's an undue hardship to make all students volunteer. As it stands right now, schools are within their rights to impose mandatory volunteering requirements. If you refuse to accept the law as law, then so be it. As they say, "I can lead a horse to water but I can't make them drink."

Not in my prior state. They cannot have any requirements above and beyond state requirements. Now if you attended a school of choice, the requirements would be altered. But then you chose to go there and accepted those requirements. The state would have to impose those requirements across the board and there are many situations where it would be difficult.

Still sketchy on state law here. But it isn't a requirement for graduating as far as I can tell. I am not aware of how much autonomy individual counties have though.

I don't have to prove anything as I opt out of the public school system.

ETA: Some folks have posted that in their district, volunteering through a religious organization does not count. So even if the service is not religious in nature--it doesn't count. You are saying that is constitutional?

 

[kaytieeldr]

Please explain how forcing people to help community organizations in a manner that causes more work for that organization is good for soceity overall?

Why are you so sure requiring community service would cause more work for the organizations involved? You have to do homework, you have to do chores... This would just be something else students must do. Would there only be one option? Does anybody really think it would be as discriminatory as the picture Lisa loves Pooh painted - the wealthy get the 'cool' assignments and the less well-off get trash duty? There wouldn't be any fairness or lottery?

Many pages back, someone pointed out if a student were slacking off, the coordinator at their location could, essentially, fire them - with no hours/credit earned. They'd learn pretty quick that this isn't a joke, that they actually have to work.

 

[Imagineer7]

It wouldn't be difficult for the groups at all. All the high school needs to do is impose a rule that your supervisor at the volunteer organization needs to give your performance a review after your hours are complete. If you did a bad job and gave everyone there lip and attitude, then you fail and don't meet the service requirement needed for graduation. This will keep most people in line and the ones that still jerk around don't deserve to graduate.

Many pages back, someone pointed out if a student were slacking off, the coordinator at their location could, essentially, fire them - with no hours/credit earned. They'd learn pretty quick that this isn't a joke, that they actually have to work.

Yes that was me and declansdad conveniently forgot to respond!

 

[kaytieeldr]

But it will be like picking the AP Chemistry class, given that the AP exam costs $85 out-of-pocket.

As for the rest--it is still a choice. Some schools do not make students pay AP fees.

Okay,,, but given annual cutbacks in education funding, it's surprising to learn any school or school system would pay this extra fee - especially since it only benefits some students.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Why are you so sure requiring community service would cause more work for the organizations involved? You have to do homework, you have to do chores... This would just be something else students must do. Would there only be one option? Does anybody really think it would be as discriminatory as the picture Lisa loves Pooh painted - the wealthy get the 'cool' assignments and the less well-off get trash duty? There wouldn't be any fairness or lottery?

Many pages back, someone pointed out if a student were slacking off, the coordinator at their location could, essentially, fire them - with no hours/credit earned. They'd learn pretty quick that this isn't a joke, that they actually have to work.

Honestly?

I did not come up with that scenario. I continued the discussion that SOMEONE ELSE brought up. I didn't paint the picture. I merely discussed it.

ETA: Here is the post--

But none the less, you have to ensure that ALL students are receiving the SAME instruction, no matter how it is presented. You can't do that with service hours. Imagine little Susie, who's Dad is on the school board, gets to volunteer as a legislative page for her service hours. Now little Jimmy, who's single mom works two jobs, can't volunteer outside of school hours because he has to babysit his younger siblings. He gets his service hours by picking up trash at school during the school day. How is that equitable? How are they being provided the same opportunity for learning? If it's a requirement, it absolutely has to be an equal opportunity for learning. And if it's not about the learning, then it is simply just a task to be checked off, a hoop to jump through. It must be about learning. So how could that be assessed? How can we show that the students are receiving equal learning here? equal opportunity? You can't. There isn't even a curriculum, objectives or assessment. It's simply a task.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Okay,,, but given annual cutbacks in education funding, it's surprising to learn any school or school system would pay this extra fee - especially since it only benefits some students.

Fair enough.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Everybody? I didn't realize I was the only one on this thread who thinks volunteering should be mandated. Reading is fundamental.

Not volunteering. "Community Service"

Which allows me to segue to my point. No, "Community Service" should not be required to graduate from high school... but Community Service should be. Putting the phrase in quotation marks is the written equivalent of a combination of a smirk and rolling one's eyes. It says, "oh, right, that's what they're calling it but I'm not falling for their fancy name; it's just a way to get free work out of my kid and disrupt my family life/schedule, and I'll be darned if I'm gonna let that happen, at least not without a fight!".

 

[Imagineer7]

Not volunteering. "Community Service"

Which allows me to segue to my point. No, "Community Service" should not be required to graduate from high school... but Community Service should be. Putting the phrase in quotation marks is the written equivalent of a combination of a smirk and rolling one's eyes. It says, "oh, right, that's what they're calling it but I'm not falling for their fancy name; it's just a way to get free work out of my kid and disrupt my family life/schedule, and I'll be darned if I'm gonna let that happen, at least not without a fight!".

That's right.. mom and pop gotta be home so they don't miss the next episode of "Murder She Wrote" and little Billy has to get home to play his new Xbox game. Totally awesome dude!!