Should ex help out with these expenses?

[kamik86]

I couldn't agree more. Issues about bad neighborhood and space could have been addressed before he moved there. He is their parent just as much as the OP is. Would it be her ok for her to up and move and not have space, safety, (insert lame excuse here) for their children?

Not if she is getting child support with the reason being for food and shelter for the kids. Well unless she wanted to start paying the father child support and expect him to provide these things.

 

[pocomom]

I put the points that concerned me in boldface in the quote.
I think the adults should make it their business to work the money stuff out themselves. Children and teens should not be placed in the middle of their parent's unpleasant money issues.

Unpleasant money issues yes, kids should never be put in a choose sides battle or general nastiness. But "Hey dad, can I have $100 for camp" is good for any kid.
I don't believe in inserting myself in their relationship, or handling things for the kids when I'm not necessary or beneficial.

 

[AJ1983]

Wow, where do you live that CS goes until they're 21?? It's 18 or until they graduate from high school here.

In my province (and I think all Canadian provinces) parents are entitled to recieve child support past the age of 18 as long as the child is living with that parent and attending school full time. There are alot of factors to consider, and the basic amt for food clothing and shelter is isually lower than normal, but there are exceptions to the rule that support ends when child turns 18.

 

[TAX GUY]

I couldn't agree more. Issues about bad neighborhood and space could have been addressed before he moved there. He is their parent just as much as the OP is. Would it be her ok for her to up and move and not have space, safety, (insert lame excuse here) for their children?

Not if she is the custodial parent and he only has day time (no overnight) visitation. There are many possibilities as to why, and there may be legit reasons too, we have no idea.

None of us have any idea why he or why she, and its not the point of this thread. I get a kick out of many posters and how quickly them jump on the "bad dad" from one comment, from one side of the story. I've read plenty of horror stories regarding good dad's and bad mom's.

 

[Aliceacc]

I just don't think there is a good reason for any parent to deny their child access to their home. Bad neighborhood? Move. Predator? Move. Stop playing golf (per OP), give up on the girlfriends, and better your life so you aren't a deadbeat. Yes. If you can't have your children at your own home, you are a deadbeat.


If you want your children to visit you, you will make it work.

Right.

But we're talking THIS summer, and it's July 19.

And we're not talking "visit" we're talking "sleep over." There's a huge difference.

I'm not saying that the dad is father of the year, merely that I can see some legitimate reasons why he might balk at having the girls sleep over this summer.

 

[HM]

I like the idea of your daughters finding work that includes room and board, like a summer sleep-away camp. I'd look into that for next year.

I have no input on this year's dilemma, except I agree with staying closer to where your daughters are instead of going home after you drop them off to cut back on driving.

 

[piccolopat]

I couldn't agree more. Issues about bad neighborhood and space could have been addressed before he moved there. He is their parent just as much as the OP is. Would it be her ok for her to up and move and not have space, safety, (insert lame excuse here) for their children?

Maybe it's all he can afford after paying child support.

 

[brooke789]

NC is another state where child support is paid until the child graduates college. I believe if college is not attended it ends at 18 or high school graduation.

 

[Mickeyluver37]

Not if she is getting child support with the reason being for food and shelter for the kids. Well unless she wanted to start paying the father child support and expect him to provide these things.

That's not really how child support works, at least not in my state. Both parents could have 50/50 physical custody, and the higher earner is still paying child support to the other parent. It's so they can maintain the same sort of standard of living in BOTH households.

Here's some worksheets for Maryland so you can see where they are coming from with the calculation:

http://www.dhr.state.md.us/CSOCGuide/App/selectWorksheet.do

Just for an example, I picked the joint physical custody work sheet- Mother making $2,000 per month, Father making $10,000 per month. For nights with each parent I did 183 for Mother, 182 for Father. Calculation shows Father pays $1,143.67 in child support.

 

[gwynne]

Unpleasant money issues yes, kids should never be put in a choose sides battle or general nastiness. But "Hey dad, can I have $100 for camp" is good for any kid.
I don't believe in inserting myself in their relationship, or handling things for the kids when I'm not necessary or beneficial.

In general I would agree. And in an ideal word both parents will think and act like adults, rather than bad mouthing the other one.

But in some cases that "Hey Dad" can also start a long litany of how mommy wastes support etc. Sadly, I've know kids who had to listen to parental venting way too often when a money issue is mentioned.

 

[kamik86]

That's not really how child support works, at least not in my state. Both parents could have 50/50 physical custody, and the higher earner is still paying child support to the other parent. It's so they can maintain the same sort of standard of living in BOTH households.

Here's some worksheets for Maryland so you can see where they are coming from with the calculation:

http://www.dhr.state.md.us/CSOCGuide/App/selectWorksheet.do

Just for an example, I picked the joint physical custody work sheet- Mother making $2,000 per month, Father making $10,000 per month. For nights with each parent I did 183 for Mother, 182 for Father. Calculation shows Father pays $1,143.67 in child support.

In a case where both parents would have custody about the same amount of time and the income is high enough of both parents that they can afford to keep two reasonably large and good households up this makes sense. However if for stability reasons a decision is made to have them mostly live in one place espeically during the school year then it may not make sense for the other house to keep up space for the kids.

Espeically if the parents don't make enough where they could afford to keep both households up. Its impossible tomaintain the same standard of living in both houses that you could in one for the same income. If the parents make 100K together for 4 people they can afford a much nicer 3 bedroom house then either parent would get if you gave them each 50K per year. Espeically given that they would still be looking for 3 bedroom houses (one for parent one for each kid) in your scenario. Overall standard of living is going to decline for everyone that way.

Instead if Mom takes most of the custody and Dad just gets to visit alot, do alot of day trips etc but not have them when the kids are sleeping then Mom may still be able to afford that 3 bedroom house and Dad may be able to afford a nice apartment and the kids maintain about the same standard of living.

 

[sk!mom]

I was a child support payer for well over a decade. So, perspective from the other side of the aisle.

It shouldn't be the case, but child support is often an ongoing weapon. "If he were a good father, he'd pay..." is a guilt trip. I used to say if I turned over my check to my ex, she'd complain that the IRS took some of it first.

Paying you child support money is so overloaded with the emotional baggage of divorce that hell yes, he's resistant to paying more.

But. And this is the point I wanted to make: his children are 15 and 18. They can ask him for help directly and that help is much more likely to be forthcoming if it's not being filtered through you.

Think of ways where he can help them directly without putting more money in your hands or granting your monetary desires and you might be more successful.

For example, he paid his share of DD15's program. Why? For starters he didn't have to give that money to Y. O. U. Believe me, that matters.

I put the points that concerned me in boldface in the quote.
I think the adults should make it their business to work the money stuff out themselves. Children and teens should not be placed in the middle of their parent's unpleasant money issues.

I agree that parents should work out the financial arrangements of child support and children should not be involved. If dad is late paying, reminders should never go through the kids. However, the post from the support payers perspective has merit.

I think that sometimes the custodial parent is having the discussions with the kids about plans, activities, etc... The noncustodial is not involved until they get hit up to pay. It's very easy for the noncustodial parent to feel really shut out.

IMO, it would be better for all involved if teenagers were discussing plans with dad as well as mom especially if they want/need him to contribute. This isn't manipulating anyone- it's relationship building.

In the OP's case, I would write this summer off as a lesson learned. In the future, I would consider transportation in the summer plan discussion.

To the OP, people not rubber stamping your plan isn't equal to them jumping on you. It's just differing opinions. Sometimes when we seek validation and don't get it, we need to consider why we needed it in the first place. Maybe we know that we need to go a different direction.

One final thought, if the dad in this situation is paying support until age 21, isn't he contributing to college?

 

[kamik86]

Another thought for the OP.

Dad may feel like you should have planned for these costs when determining how much everyone was paying for the theatre program.

If you had talked to Dad about an activity and agreed he woudl pay $30 a week towards something extra for the kid and half way through he went "Oh this isn't working for me I'm going to only send $10 now" You woudl be quite upset right? Now either you have to pay more or deny the child the activity they have already started.

You basically did this to Dad. He had no reason not to think you didn't plan for transportation costs before you agreed to your DD doing this program. You agreed to terms and are now trying to change them. I could see saying no for that reason alone.

 

[Minnie_me]

OP back again --- just want to chime in so the speculation can end.

My Ex has lived in 7 different places since leaving us almost 7 years ago. Bouncing from place to place, sometimes with the "girl" he left us for, sometimes not (they were on-again, off-again for about 4 years, and now they're completely off). He currently lives in a very nice suburb, in half of a house in a very nice neighborhood. There are 2 bedrooms in his apartment, and there are twin beds in the spare room. The girls have spent the night there twice, so I'm really not sure why he's balking on it this summer (other than the girlfriend speculation).

I think it's funny how the child support conversation is continuing. But I'll talk about that a little bit. He pays the bare minimum, but at least he pays. I don't believe that CS should count as his "paying toward college", when college costs are so exorbitant, and I still have to maintain the household while she's there. Neither one of us makes a great deal of money. I teach elementary school in a rural district (my niece just got her first teaching job and makes almost as much as I do after 30 years!), and he makes about the same amount. When we were married, we built a house on the lake; but when he left, I had to sell it and move into the village into a much more affordable home (I love my house and my neighborhood, though! I don't want anyone thinking that I'm crying about living in the slums, LOL!).

Things will definitely be different next summer!

 

[smiths02]

I would think the child support would include shelter, clothing, food, and transportation.
I get that this is extra driving while extras would be braces, camps, sports, etc.

I would just chalk it up as lesson learned and think about gas prices before agreeing to this next year. I mean what would you do if you were married and are spending more than you thought for something?

And, yes, an 18 year old should figure out transportation, tax implications, financial aid implications, cost of work clothes, etc. when figuring out a job.

 

[sk!mom]

Not if she is the custodial parent and he only has day time (no overnight) visitation. There are many possibilities as to why, and there may be legit reasons too, we have no idea.

None of us have any idea why he or why she, and its not the point of this thread. I get a kick out of many posters and how quickly them jump on the "bad dad" from one comment, from one side of the story. I've read plenty of horror stories regarding good dad's and bad mom's.

Right. In the case of DH's brother, when he and his wife divorced, she was a sahm and they had 5 children. He paid child support and alimony and she kept the house so that the kids would be less disrupted. After paying, all he could afford was a small one bedroom apartment. He's tried to stay involved but the kids never stayed over except for one at a time in special instances because the sofa was the only place to sleep.

Ten years later, he says that he regrets it because his relationships with his kids certainly suffered by not having the "home" feel of shared living space. He wonders if it would have been better to sell the big house and both could have gotten a small home.

Not everyone is a high income earner who can afford two homes.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Good update, OP!

"to the best of his ability". Man, I need a new attorney...
Yes, it sounds like this is very much so!!!
(Note to self - are there any better attorneys available.)

I would make sure that any attorney would be able to spell out the father's responsibilities without any such ambiguous and subjective terms.
I would also make sure that some kind of auto-pay is set up, if at all legal/possible, if garnishment is not going to work.
I am not from your state, but it occurs to me that any state that has child support for children above age 18 and garnishment does take parental support seriously, and that auto-pay might be an option. I would hope that you have documentation of the history of late/missed payments.

Good luck getting thru the summer with your kids jobs/activities!

 

[barkley]

op-just want to say that I totally get where you are coming from on a couple of the issues.

I'm rural too-22 mile round trip to the closest public transportation. my dd is almost 22 but she too was NO WAY ready to drive until she was MUCH older than her peers. she didn't get her license until she was a month shy of her 19th birthday, and by waiting until she WAS ready she is a secure, confident and safe driver (and our insurance agent showed us how much $$$$$ we saved/still save premium wise by waiting-but still having her go through the full blown drivers ed/training).

tip-when you have the discussion w/your dd's about contributing to their travel costs use this as an additional teaching moment. explain to them ALL the costs associated with driving a car-including the wear and tear. show them how much the irs rate is (currently 54 cents per mile). I suggest this b/c it never fails that the students who live at college and have a car are inundated with requests from friends for rides, and these rides-even very short rides add up in cost well beyond what the students think (gas only). our dd was amazed to see how many miles she put on her car after just one year at college until we started having her think about it, then she started adding up the MANY 'just 5 mile' rides she gave people here and there................and when she had to pay for an item of upkeep on her car LONG before she had anticipated, her being the taxi for friends ceased.

for your dd in the theatre program it's a good learning opportunity as well-teach her how to compute the costs of attending or participating. I did LOTS of theatre long before I got my drivers license (also didn't get mine till 18) and with the local ones my mom would schlep me back and forth but when I was accepted into a prestigious program over 40 miles away in san Francisco-I had to come up with the money/means to get there and back (back in the late 70's it added another $10 per day to my costs which was a huge chunk of change back then).

 

[FlightlessDuck]

You need to figure out a better way of getting people places so you don't have to drive 160 miles per day.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

But what would be a good reason for not allowing your own children to stay with you? Is there one?

Don't forget, the OP doesn't just want them to stay with him.

She wants him to drive them, to two different places at two different times.

That may be the problem. Especially if this wasn't something that he had planned for.

Oh, and our son? He didn't get his license until he was 19. And in our state, he wasn't an adult until he turned 19.