Shiny Happy People Docuseries

[dvcgirl67]

I went to precana, overnight weekend retreat, it was fine (although I was taken back that I was dorming with another woman and not my fiancé, looking back I was an idiot). It was run by volunteers, my IL’s used to run some (second marriage for both). I think marriage pre counseling is a good idea. The Catholic Church is almost 2000 years old and the original Christian religion, not a trendy cult trying for new members. Catholics are either both in or marry in (and it’s a ton of time and effort to go through all of the steps, I know some who converted). There are so many other religions out there if one doesn’t work for someone and their beliefs.

Well, not married in a Catholic Church so no precana for us....but would they even have allowed for you to stay in the same room? I mean, even though nearly every couple has had "relations" before marriage, the Catholic Church often tries to suspend disbelief in carrying out charades like "separate beds/rooms" before marriage.

 

[mom2rtk]

Obviously, the grief never really ends for him completely, but his wife of 67 years wasn't herself for the last 2-3 years of her life. This death was one that he was praying for near the end....for the last six months or so at least. Nobody wants to watch their partner waste away....in diapers (that he was changing)....confused, can't walk...etc. We don't pray....so he was praying and we were hoping for it. To us...same diff.

And she was much further ahead of him in the aging process, even though she died at 88, and he's 91. Once she hit her late 70s, they couldn't travel anymore. She didn't take care of herself in the same way that he did. He was able to golf and do a lot more in their community. She became increasingly housebound.

I will say that the "heavy grieving" is over.....he's back to himself. And....he's on the hunt for a "lady friend", which we're *all* for....as he needs one. So far no luck on that front....he had his eye on his next door neighbor, but she's a widow her in 70s and isn't interested. There are people in this age bracket move quickly to find a new companion....men in particular. We have always known that he would outlive my MIL and have privately joked that he'd bring a lady friend to the wake.....because we've heard stories about their community....that they move fast.

Another thing that I brought up to my husband and sister-in-law....who have both known the players longer than I have...is this "movie" idea never would have made it to us.... had my MIL still been alive....and lucid. She was smarter than my FIL and would have squashed this idea of his. She would have been afraid that it would have pushed her son (and daughter-in-law) away, even though she was just as much of a hard-core catholic as he is. Most couples balance each other out in this way.....he's a big talker, she was far quieter, like her son that I married. And I would imagine he's had many ideas over the years that she nixed....some of that I've seen happen in real time.

But, as I said....it's not fun to hear your FIL screaming to his son that he's going to hell, but....we also understand that this is really all about him. He's fearful that he's going to die soon and never see us again, as we'll be burning in hell. And so, to us, that is so utterly and completely ridiculous....that we can just move on. It's the non-christian thing to do too.

You're kidding yourself if you think there wasn't immense grief at the time of her actual passing.

Of course it's not fun to hear your FIL screaming at his son. But aging isn't a pretty process. I try to give a lot of grace.

Could he be a terrible person? Of course. But I also figure there's a lot he's struggling with that I don't understand.

 

[Pink Partridge]

Later, his mom came to our door very upset with us because we had left our garage door open and he stole our grill lighter, he started a fire in metal trash can inside his room.

At this point, she would be told to leave my property and I would not even look at her again. Upset with you because her son is a thief? That's rich.

 

[mjkacmom]

Well, not married in a Catholic Church so no precana for us....but would they even have allowed for you to stay in the same room? I mean, even though nearly every couple has had "relations" before marriage, the Catholic Church often tries to suspend disbelief in carrying out charades like "separate beds/rooms" before marriage.

Of course not, which is why I felt like an idiot being surprised. We dated about 6 years before getting married at the age of 28, we met when we were 12, he moved in with me 6 months before the wedding to save money on rent, his parents were not thrilled (even though they loved me, still do) and it was never mentioned to my grandmother (who had communion brought to her apartment every day since she wasn’t mobile enough for daily mass anymore).

 

[dvcgirl67]

You're kidding yourself if you think there wasn't immense grief at the time of her actual passing.

Of course it's not fun to hear your FIL screaming at his son. But aging isn't a pretty process. I try to give a lot of grace.

Could he be a terrible person? Of course. But I also figure there's a lot he's struggling with that I don't understand.

Kidding myself? Of course there was immense grief at her passing for him.....but there was also a huge sense of relief that the suffering was over. Because that's purely what it was to have watched my MIL for the last 6-8 weeks of her life....pure suffering....wasting away in a nursing home. I'd go as far to call how we treat our loved ones at the end in her condition....inhumane. Assisted suicide would have been a "blessing" for all involved....especially for her.

And....he's getting "a lot of grace", as *we're* letting *his* comments (screamed over the phone) about us going to hell....go. We're spending Father's Day with him. We got him a really nice driver that he's been talking about...but didn't want to spend the money on it. He'll love it.

And...he's not a terrible person, far from it. I have a lot of respect for him, but this was a big miscalculation on his part, and....it was calculated to a big degree, because when he first called my husband to let him know what the plans were and my husband said, "wait, what's the movie?".....he cut him off and said, "No, that's what we're watching, it's my Father's Day and it's what I want." Like a little old man toddler. So...he tried to pull something out of the Godfather movie, like the Godfather can't refuse any request made on the day of his daughter's wedding. Well, my FIL tried to pull the same thing....linking it to Father's Day. It's all pretty comical really.

And, we were willing to sit with him and watch the movie, as it apparently gives him great comfort....it's simply affirming his very entrenched beliefs, so....good for him. However, this movie is christian propaganda and meant to prompt a discussion. My husband thought it best to get to the bottom of the "why" behind the movie choice (which we obviously already understood), and have the discussion before we got down there. My FIL was the one who screamed, disinvited us and hung up.....then called back to apologize only for hanging up, and inviting us again. I'm so glad that this all took place over the phone....and not in person, because it would have been much worse.

Now, at least the cards are on the table, and I suspect we'll go back to our pleasant relationship with him....with boundaries now firmly set regarding religious conversations. Am I particularly thrilled about spending Father's Day with him this year....no, not really if I'm being completely honest. But, I'm a team player, so I'll suck it up, plant a smile on my face....and get through it. The whole thing will hopefully be in the rear view mirror soon enough. He's easy enough to forgive.

 

[mjkacmom]

That's awful. And I would imagine, not uncommon. My FIL has envelopes that he brings to church every week....he gives $15 a week, which the number he settled on....it's a line item in his budget. DH has alerts on all of his credit cards and checking accounts for any expenditures over $100, so he knows what is happening. We moved his small nest egg out of where they had it (with some "financial advisor" they met at one of those free steak dinners 30 years ago)....and moved it to Vanguard several years back.

One funny thing that we knew about....but not the extent of it.... when MIL died was the amount of "fooling around money" that my FIL had. He'd talked about his "fooling around money" for years, which essentially meant....some money he put aside for himself for things he wanted....like a golf club here or there, but mostly....for betting on horses. He's a little old Italian guy from North Jersey....and he loves betting on the ponies. When MIL passed, he asked us to hold his "fooling around money". We were thinking....it was maybe $500....1,000 bucks. But...it was 18K!!. I guess he was afraid to keep it in the house now that he'd be out and about more. So...we told him to keep 3K for the ponies...and we're holding his 15K....lol.

Little old Italian guy from north jersey - I’m literally surrounded by them here in tony soprano land. Ironically my FIL is a little old Italian guy from north jersey (5’, 120 pounds), but he doesn’t have the crankiness (unlike my dad, German and cranky).

 

[dvcgirl67]

Of course not, which is why I felt like an idiot being surprised. We dated about 6 years before getting married at the age of 28, we met when we were 12, he moved in with me 6 months before the wedding to save money on rent, his parents were not thrilled (even though they loved me, still do) and it was never mentioned to my grandmother (who had communion brought to her apartment every day since she wasn’t mobile enough for daily mass anymore).

Oh, lol...okay, I misunderstood your comment....thinking that rooming together was an option. We lived together before we were married too, got engaged 6 months later. If his parents were upset about that, I never heard about it. But...they probably were.

They did try to pull the "you'll sleep in separate beds in our home when you visit" deal. We were living in California and heading home for the holidays. We were both in our late 20s. We were invited to stay with my in-laws....and they had more room than my parents (who lived in the same town), so it made sense. Right before our departure my FIL told my husband that we would need to sleep in separate rooms. My husband gently reminded his father that we'd been living together for over a year, engaged for six months, and five months out from our wedding.....sort of a "what are you doing here?" moment. But, he said that we'd respect their feelings, but stay elsewhere if that was the deal.....the in-laws caved and we stayed there. It was more "drama for drama's sake". That kind of "suspending disbelief" that is so big within the Catholic Church.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Little old Italian guy from north jersey - I’m literally surrounded by them here in tony soprano land. Ironically my FIL is a little old Italian guy from north jersey (5’, 120 pounds), but he doesn’t have the crankiness (unlike my dad, German and cranky).

Ha....my FIL is 5'2....probably about 120 lbs!! And yes, my FIL is not cranky at all....he's a really positive person. He has an amazing zest for life. That's one thing my husband has in common with his father. Thankfully...my husband got some height from somewhere....he's 5'10"....not sure where, because his mother was only 5'0" tall. They always referred to themselves as "little people"....lol.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Catholics, at least, don't believe you get into heaven just by being Catholic. Some other Christian denominations might.

The way I've always been told...is you have to be baptized, have faith, repent for your sins and go to confession.....then you're in. My FIL believes that baptized babies don't go to heaven...but to purgatory. Had we had children and not baptized the child...we always joked that my in-laws would have pulled an "Archie Bunker"....and kidnapped the child to have her baptized. I'm not sure how much you have to go to church....but if you're not going to church, then you're not really "walking with God", so I guess that buys you extra time in purgatory? Nobody seems to really know the answers.

One tidbit that FIL shared after the passing of his wife when there was lots (and lots) of religious talk with us there supporting him and just listening....was that he believes that when he goes to heaven he will no longer be married to his wife (who is presumably already there). Everyone in heaven is married to Jesus....I guess the men too, so that kind of same-sex marriage is cool. So...it's a religious union of sorts I suppose. So "up there".....it really goes full cult .

 

[mom2rtk]

Kidding myself? Of course there was immense grief at her passing for him.....but there was also a huge sense of relief that the suffering was over. Because that's purely what it was to have watched my MIL for the last 6-8 weeks of her life....pure suffering....wasting away in a nursing home. I'd go as far to call how we treat our loved ones at the end in her condition....inhumane. Assisted suicide would have been a "blessing" for all involved....especially for her.

And....he's getting "a lot of grace", as *we're* letting *his* comments (screamed over the phone) about us going to hell....go. We're spending Father's Day with him. We got him a really nice driver that he's been talking about...but didn't want to spend the money on it. He'll love it.

And...he's not a terrible person, far from it. I have a lot of respect for him, but this was a big miscalculation on his part, and....it was calculated to a big degree, because when he first called my husband to let him know what the plans were and my husband said, "wait, what's the movie?".....he cut him off and said, "No, that's what we're watching, it's my Father's Day and it's what I want." Like a little old man toddler. So...he tried to pull something out of the Godfather movie, like the Godfather can't refuse any request made on the day of his daughter's wedding. Well, my FIL tried to pull the same thing....linking it to Father's Day. It's all pretty comical really.

And, we were willing to sit with him and watch the movie, as it apparently gives him great comfort....it's simply affirming his very entrenched beliefs, so....good for him. However, this movie is christian propaganda and meant to prompt a discussion. My husband thought it best to get to the bottom of the "why" behind the movie choice (which we obviously already understood), and have the discussion before we got down there. My FIL was the one who screamed, disinvited us and hung up.....then called back to apologize only for hanging up, and inviting us again. I'm so glad that this all took place over the phone....and not in person, because it would have been much worse.

Now, at least the cards are on the table, and I suspect we'll go back to our pleasant relationship with him....with boundaries now firmly set regarding religious conversations. Am I particularly thrilled about spending Father's Day with him this year....no, not really if I'm being completely honest. But, I'm a team player, so I'll suck it up, plant a smile on my face....and get through it. The whole thing will hopefully be in the rear view mirror soon enough. He's easy enough to forgive.

You can have an immense sense of relief at someone's passing while still suffering immense grief and adjustment.

 

[dvcgirl67]

You can have an immense sense of relief at someone's passing while still suffering immense grief and adjustment.

Completely agree. And that's exactly what happened in my family.

 

[mjkacmom]

The way I've always been told...is you have to be baptized, have faith, repent for your sins and go to confession.....then you're in. My FIL believes that baptized babies don't go to heaven...but to purgatory. Had we had children and not baptized the child...we always joked that my in-laws would have pulled an "Archie Bunker"....and kidnapped the child to have her baptized. I'm not sure how much you have to go to church....but if you're not going to church, then you're not really "walking with God", so I guess that buys you extra time in purgatory? Nobody seems to really know the answers.

One tidbit that FIL shared after the passing of his wife when there was lots (and lots) of religious talk with us there supporting him and just listening....was that he believes that when he goes to heaven he will no longer be married to his wife (who is presumably already there). Everyone in heaven is married to Jesus....I guess the men too, so that kind of same-sex marriage is cool. So...it's a religious union of sorts I suppose. So "up there".....it really goes full cult .

Not going to mass every Sunday is a sin, so that can keep you out.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Not going to mass every Sunday is a sin, so that can keep you out.

Oh is it? I didn't know that. This keeps most of the more casual catholics I know out....for sure. And honestly, I don't know many people my age who are full-blown practicing Catholics at our age. I see the people going to the Catholic Church in my town and they're almost entirely people who are older than we are (mid-50s).

 

[mjkacmom]

Oh is it? I didn't know that. This keeps most of the more casual catholics I know out....for sure. And honestly, I don't know many people my age who are full-blown practicing Catholics at our age. I see the people going to the Catholic Church in my town and they're almost entirely people who are older than we are (mid-50s).

I know folks my age who are regulars, but my most religious friends are members of other Christian churches. I think my sister in laws might be regular mass go’ers. I think my 20 year old started going to mass on a regular basis this spring, and got her ashes, which is surprising since she goes to college in SC so less of a Catholic area (unlike here).

 

[robinb]

@LilyWDW - I'll be awaiting your Haha or Angry face.

View attachment 767986View attachment 767987

She does that a lot.

 

[QueenIsabella]

Not going to mass every Sunday is a sin, so that can keep you out.

Doesn't getting last rites mean all is forgiven? Or, if you're conscious towards the end, confession and then last rites? When our brother died a couple months back, my sister was insistent that he get last rites (confession was off the table--he was on life support). His ashes will be interred with our parents, in a Catholic cemetery. All fine with me if it makes my sister happy, but Brother hadn't been a practicing Catholic for decades. AFAIK, the last time he attended Mass was in 2006, for our mom's funeral. (FTR, I'm no better). But I do think that SIs was trying to get him into heaven.

 

[TippyThomas]

She does that a lot.

I use the emoji reactions a lot too. Sometimes it's easier to use them then go through the process of having things deleted, reports and points because of hurt feelings. The software has them available so why not use them?

 

[dvcgirl67]

Doesn't getting last rites mean all is forgiven? Or, if you're conscious towards the end, confession and then last rites? When our brother died a couple months back, my sister was insistent that he get last rites (confession was off the table--he was on life support). His ashes will be interred with our parents, in a Catholic cemetery. All fine with me if it makes my sister happy, but Brother hadn't been a practicing Catholic for decades. AFAIK, the last time he attended Mass was in 2006, for our mom's funeral. (FTR, I'm no better). But I do think that SIs was trying to get him into heaven.

I think that if you're following the catholic rules then your brother wouldn't qualify until he'd repented for his sins in a formal manner (to god and a priest presumably), and had accepted Jesus as his Lord and Savior. Unless you do that....all in....meaning God will know if you're fibbing.....it's a no go for heaven.

My husband's brother passed away in 2014. He was an alcoholic and died from liver failure. He was not a religious man and while at his death bed....my husband was there with them as well as my brother-in-laws adult children....there was no call for a priest for last rites. My very catholic in-laws must have figured it wasn't worth it as it wouldn't matter. There was also no funeral mass, but just a very small service for immediate family at the cemetery where there was a little chapel. Some guy from the funeral home got up and said a few words....and that was that. It was evident that they felt shame in the way he died....and so didn't want any extended family there.

 

[robinb]

I use the emoji reactions a lot too. Sometimes it's easier to use them then go through the process of having things deleted, reports and points because of hurt feelings. The software has them available so why not use them?

There is nothing wrong with using the emojis as long as it's not used as an personal attack mechanism.

The laughing emoji is positive and fun when it's used by someone sharing in the joke. The OP made them laugh! It's not fun when it's used to belittlingly laugh at someone's serious comment. One might get points for quoting the comment and saying, "That is/You are stupid." but they can say the same thing safely with the laughing emoji. The angry emoji can also be both positive and negative. It's a positive emoji used when people are supportive and angry for you or angry with you. It's not positive or supportive when it's used to oppose what the person said. While one won't get points for saying, "I disagree with everything you just said.", I don't think it's much of a conversation to convey that thought with an emoji.

I actually think it's perfectly OK to use the emojis in both ways. However, the excessive use of the negative emojis by one poster against a single poster (or group of posters) on a thread moves from a simple, quick reaction into personal attack category. LilyWDW used 9 negative emojis on DisneylandFreak's comments with 6 in the space of 4 minutes. All of the negative emojis by Lily were directed at DisneylandFreak.

I commented because I have seen her do it others and she has done it to me in the past.

 

[QueenIsabella]

I think that if you're following the catholic rules then your brother wouldn't qualify until he'd repented for his sins in a formal manner (to god and a priest presumably), and had accepted Jesus as his Lord and Savior. Unless you do that....all in....meaning God will know if you're fibbing.....it's a no go for heaven.

My husband's brother passed away in 2014. He was an alcoholic and died from liver failure. He was not a religious man and while at his death bed....my husband was there with them as well as my brother-in-laws adult children....there was no call for a priest for last rites. My very catholic in-laws must have figured it wasn't worth it as it wouldn't matter. There was also no funeral mass, but just a very small service for immediate family at the cemetery where there was a little chapel. Some guy from the funeral home got up and said a few words....and that was that. It was evident that they felt shame in the way he died....and so didn't want any extended family there.

Well, it made my sister feel better, at least. She's the only one of us who's a practicing Catholic. And our mom told us all we were going to hell, anyway, so it'll be a big party/reunion when I get there, I guess.